Yor Briar vs The Helltaker

[Cimafranca133]

Gonna remove my vote for now and grab some popcorn for tomorrow

 

[Doggo]

Gonna remove my vote for now and grab some popcorn for tomorrow

good choice

 

[Doggo]

Ill write my rebuttals tomorrow, gotta sleep rn. Looks like I'm in a safe enough spot that I don't need to worry about too many fra's in my sleep.

I feel like your gonna say things that will destroy me

 

[RandomGuy2345]

The mfs who be switching votes are straight sheep ngl.

 

[Cimafranca133]

The mfs who be switching votes are straight sheep ngl.

It's called being fair

 

[Doggo]

The mfs who be switching votes are straight sheep ngl.

It's being reasonable

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Sure.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Alright, I'm gonna be more blunt with this message to make things as clear as possible. Just keep that in mind, nothing here is meant to come off as rude, I'm gonna be doing discord speak.

BTW, are there any other instances of his analytical prediction?

Nah, the game is really short and Judgement is the only bossfight. However Subject 67 also shows analytical prediction for dodging projectiles many times faster than him against the DLC boss.

Why is helltaker only has superhuman speed if he can dodge supersonic attacks?

I very clearly explained this earlier. Because Helltaker can't dodge the Supersonic chains. He can only predict where they're going to be and move out of the way. This is why in-game, you get a heads-up display of where they're going to be. The chains cross the entire screen in 1 frame (Literally, I figured out so in my calc), and in 1 frame, The Helltaker can't even move 1 spot over. Thus it's impossible to dodge if it has already been fired. So it would need to be analytical prediction.

People wanking helltakers analytical prediction when the link they show has him taking hits lmao

Have you been reading my replies to the thread at all? I clarify earlier that he is only hit in gameplay. We see he is completely unscathed after their fight is over when he leaves Hell. In addition, again, the Chains would canonically go through him like paper.

Could you send a scan of when it was show that the chains insta kill him and that he whon without getting hit? Is too late here so don't have time to search myself.

I guess I haven't been very clear, and that's my fault since when writing out all those replies yesterday I was playing a game I couldn't pause so had to switch between here and the game during the countdown to the next round.

To clarify, the chains don't kill him in one hit, but they can penetrate through his entire body in one hit due to being so far above him (Well, if they penetrate his head, then obviously he'd die in one hit, but you know what I mean). This is why he dies a thousand times before the fight with Judgement

Before you say we can't tell if the Chains could penetrate through his body, there is numerous reason to believe why outside of this (Ignoring that the chains go through him in-game rather than shattering or stopping upon making contact).

• Judgement's main method of attacking is using her chains. Which is consistent in the games AND comics where we never ONCE see her fight someone hand to hand and her answer to everything is chains.
• Judgement is the successor to the other most dangerous demon of Hell (Justice defeated Beelzebub who was stated by Lucifer to be the most dangerous kind of demon). So she would certainly upscale from other Demons. This is reflected quite well as throughout the Twitter comic series, she's shown to easily take care of demons with her chains, leaving them completely unable to move (Hell, she doesn't even scale to her own chains. She was able to restrict herself in her own chain in the boss fight). She's also noted to be good at her job which is torturing demons for their sins and shows no fear towards Lucifer's command who is the Queen of Hell (Can be seen in the clip I linked earlier).
• The other demons are shown upscaling greatly from Helltaker as they shatter his bones in a single attack (Snap his neck, break his knees) and impale him. So of course, her Chains would be the MOST capable of piercing through his entire body in one go if she upscales from other demons who can impale him in one stab and upscale from The Helltaker. Heck, she physically doesn't even get to scale to her chains in any way as there's no reason to assume she does.

In the fight he certainly isn't dodging hundreds of projectiles from every direction, as far I saw the moment when there are the most projectiles on screen they only reach 6 at the same time from only one direction, while the rest of the time it seems that she use at most use four chains simulaneously (two from above and two from either right or left) and various of those times they are aimed away from where Helltaker is (like in moments like this or this for example), so he certainly isn't getting showered constantly from all directions by danmaku levels projectiles. Still are more projectiles than what Yor can throw, yes, but isn't the insane dodging that you mentioned.

I didn't mean 100 simultaneously. But this was again my fault for exaggerating due to a distraction mentioned earlier. I meant hundreds back to back. Like, she can launch a ridiculous amount back to back. Simultaneously, she can summon around 6 or more chains from random directions anywhere at her opponent. Which IS absurd and would grant The Helltaker really good analytical prediction.

The thing is that in cqc do to how close the opponent can get one don't see all their body simultaneously, which as result can create openings to attacks from angles where one can't see when they don't expect it, for example in this scan here Yor made his enemy focus on the stiletto in her right hand creating this way a opening to surprise attack him with her left hand that he couldn't see, paralyze him with one hit of her pressure points and then kill him when he couldn't move, or here in this scene where after dodging a punch she attacked the enemy with a kick from below without him noticing from a posture where one certainly wouldn't expect a kick. The point is that at close distance one don't see all the picture and instead just see a part of it, a part which one end focusing.

When you have good analytical prediction you don't NEED to see someone's entire body at once to be able to dodge surprise attacks. He'd be able to make predictions based on what he can see to predict attacks she will throw. This is why it's called analytical prediction. In addition, it's quite clear he doesn't need to see the attack to predict it. He can predict chains being summoned behind him at point blank and dodge it. So to say he can't predict Yor's next movement because he can't see every square inch of her body when he can predict chains 50x faster than himself behind him point blank in constant rapid succession consistently would be a absurd downplay of his ability. Heck, to take it even further, Judgement doesn't physically throw her chains, she just instantly summons them from a random direction, so The Helltaker is predicting the chains randomly being summoned from a random direction ON TOP OF some of them being summoned behind him.

As I mentioned above they certainly aren't danmaku level, they also weren't aimed with great precision, were only in a straight line and many of them where even throw considerably away from Helltaker, they also were throw from open spaces with clear visibility, meanwhile the scenary of this fight, while not full of hundreds of obstacles, certainly have many things that Yor can use to cover her attacks, like doors, corners, tables and other elements of the house, along with the darkness itself outside the house (I'm assuming is the middle of night since the images of the house show it at nigh), so even if he have his analytical prediction it doesn't mean that he can use it agains't things that he can't see.

I explained above he can predict things he can't see. Unless you want to for some reason assume Helltaker has eyes all around his head and can thus predict attacks from the side of him, behind him, and in front of him simultaneously. Also, none of the attacks were shot really far away from him. The whole battle takes place on a cramped conveyor belt. THey corner him in and come from every direction, them not being precise doesn't really matter as they'd only be more predictable and easy to dodge if all the attacks came from ONE direction or all together as he wouldn't need to be careful with where he places himself. Him doing what he did is harder than what you described would be difficult unironically. At least to predict anyway. The two are starting the fight staring at each other not too far from one another.

We also seemed to agree earlier that she wouldn't start with hiding, and like she consistently does in the series, she'd opt for confronting him to cqc first. Which would actually be bad for her, because if he lands a single hit on her, she'd be severely crippled and thus greatly hindered in her movement, making her a far easier target.

It's more the context of the situation, in one he is getting throw some object (especifically chains) from a distance of various meters, in the other he receiving attacks from close distance from angles that he can't see from someone with a quite agile and unorthodox fighting style.

Explained earlier he can dodge chains being randomly shot behind him at point blank range (Point blank btw doesn't mean like inches away from someone. Just very close) at 50x his own speed without even seeing the attacks. He'd no doubt be able to predict projectiles from Yor that are far slower than the chains and far less numerous and random.

He also need the physical dexterity to dodge Yor attacks because while in the case of the chains he only needed to move to the sides, against Yor he need to move his body in a way that let him don't be touched by simultaneous kicks and attacks with her arms from someone Yor flexibility and knowledge of human anatomy, so even if he know what come thanks to his analytical prediction if his bodu don't have the ability to pull the moves needed then he can't dodge.

No, you DON'T need to be flexible to dodge attacks like that. You know what he could do to dodge those attacks? Literally leap backwards out of reach. His reach is greater than Yor due to his greater height (And arm span scales with height). So she'd need to get closer to actually tag him, and taking steps backward isn't exactly difficult.

Hell, he doesn't even need to dodge, he can tank most of her attacks due to superior durability even if he IS tagged. I should also note that her projectiles don't even have a 100% chance of piercing him on the first attempt due to greater durability (Or am I wrong, do we assume sharp projectiles and attacks can pierce through the target regardless of an ap and durability difference? If so, ignore that, if we do consider that, than take what I said into consideration). He can ALSO grab her limbs to stop her attacks and throw his own attack at her attack and shatter her hand upon contact if she attempts to collide with his fist. From which again, she becomes crippled and her movements become hindered and easier to read and limits her options.

He and Fiona, who is vastly below Yor, pulled something similar when he just learned to play tennis after a bit of practice and then defeated while impared by a gas two players with years of experience who had high-tech equimpent and used underhanded tricks like shotting at him from different directions (including angles that he couldn't see), move the web, blow a strong wind to affect his throws trajectories, lower the 36 panels in the floor at the moment when he step on everything simultaneously and despite that both of them could calculate all of those variables while moving in a way that unilateraly defeated their opponents.

I'll admit this is impressive, but there's several things you didn't mention here.

Their opponents were giving signals when to shoot, and thus Loid was able to predict when they were going to shoot whenever he gave that new signal and thus move his body weirdly to make it hard to aim and tag him, some people weren't completely out of sight (And even for the ones that were, I'm aware Loid has the ability to sense people watching him and from where), and all the projectiles and people were comparable in speed to him.

Whereas Helltaker was dodging rapid fire "danmaku" (Vs wiki's number of projectiles to be considered danmaku seems kinda arbitrary. But the reason I added the quotation marks there) from every direction point blank in directions he isn't able to see currently WHILE also managing to not get pulled into the spikes of death on each side of the conveyor belt (That the conveyor belt moves him closer to continuously throughout the fight) that are AGAIN all 52x faster than himself.

You can clearly see how the assassin was preparing to kill her with his next hit, how he gripped his weapon and suddenly stopped, how he was wondering what was happening to his body that was shakin, how he then his consciousness finally noticed Yor,and how he combat performance droped considerably compared with second before when he almost got Yor and made her think about how strong he was.

It seemed his combat ability was hindered simply because we didn't get to see narration from Yor during that second encounter (At least from the scans I see there). From my pov, he seems to be fighting just fine and even requires Yor to dodge and put her acrobatics to use to get in close (and interferes with his chains). So no, to me it doesn't seem like his combat ability was greatly hindered. At most, he seemed to be fighting a bit more brashly or hasty?

They not only are harder to see (which is something really important because if Helltaker can't see them he can't use his analytical prediction) do to how small they are but also because the are throw with more precision and planning, along with be mixed with obstacles that cover his field of vision and cqc.

Explained he can predict what he can't see, and while being smaller makes them harder to see, it ALSO makes them easier to dodge as they take up less room and thus require less movement to evade. It's the tradeoff for projectiles being small vs large. Both have different benefits. I'd just say Judgement's chains and how they're used in the fight are far more dangerous and hard to evade then Yor's projectiles which aren't even certain to pierce The Helltaker's skin.

Judment's chains have the advantage of be more faster and numerous, but in the other hand they are considerably easier to see, are throw with less precision and thinking.

I already mentioned why dodging and attack from distance isn't the same as dodging an attack from close distance, I similarly said why that is even more the case considering Yor fighting style and arsenal.

The chains she summons are close to him. Several meters away (Closer if you consider the ones that come from top to bottom). I also explained why being less precise would make it more complex to actually predict. As predicting all the attacks coming from one direction and firing in one direction is easier to predict and dodge because all you need to do is move over one pace over. Whereas if the attacks will be coming from everywhere and in different spots, you need to be able to predict the only places the chains WONT be as they can literally be summoned anywhere.

Similarly I covered why that actually matter, especially in cqc, after all no matter if I know what my opponent will do if my body is unable to follow the rhythm and move in the ways needed then I will be unable to do much.

If you had The Helltaker's level of analytical prediction you certainly would be able to dodge all your opponents normal punches, kicks, and hand thrown projectiles. You're overplaying skill if you think that level of precog wouldn't allow you to consistently dodge someone really skilled in CQC. It'd be like saying a person who can predict dozens of bullets being shot at them from random directions and dodge every one of them couldn't evade a black belts moves consistently (An exaggeration, but it's so you get the idea).

He need various good hits to Yor body to take her down (since she is quite resilient and resistent, along with combat knowledge allowing to reduce the force she receive) while Yor only need a graze of her stilettos to poison or a tab from her limbs paralize to win, so considering the difference in difficulty to pull each win con and the mentioned reasons of why Yor have quite a few advantages is that I believe she take the fight.

Various is vague. You make it seem like he'd need tens of hits when one hit alone would be devastating. Like shattering her bones devastating. Hindering her movements fairly devastating. He really only needs a few hits to win. And grazing him wouldn't be good enough because again, his higher durability would mean even head on her projectiles wouldn't be guaranteed to pierce his skin and thus affect him. Meaning her best win-cons aren't even certain to work (I should make it clear that I don't think her stilettos AREN'T capable of piercing The Helltaker's skin, just that it's not 100% going to, especially if she merely grazes him which will be hard in and of itself because of his analytical prediction).

Helltaker's win-cons are simply landing a few blows, which while hard, is certainly possible, especially if what was said here earlier

Helltaker FRA

Yor skill are wanked as ****, Jesus. Pressure points, acrobatics and good reaction. That's it. She is nothing close to being a skill god. She has even been hit several times by characters slower and weaker than her

is true (To be specific, the part about her being hit by characters slower and weaker).

And every hit after the first will be easier to land due to Yor becoming more and more hindered with each hit due to the AP gap.

Yor on the other hand needs to tag The Helltaker with her poison (Which I'm not sure is her opening move because again, I've only read to Volume 3 so far, but I did recently buy up to volume 6. Pretty good so far) which doesn't even have a 100% chance of piercing his skin AND would have a VERY hard time tagging him on top of that. Plus if he starting move is using her hands or some other sharp weapon that isn't poisonous, she wouldn't even attempt to use her win-con right off the bat.

I just see The Helltaker landing a few hits on her as more plausible than Yor's win-con.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I feel like your gonna say things that will destroy me

Hopefully not, lol. I think Helltaker wins, but I still want some pushback.

 

[Doggo]

Alright, I'm gonna be more blunt with this message to make things as clear as possible. Just keep that in mind, nothing here is meant to come off as rude, I'm gonna be doing discord speak.


Nah, the game is really short and Judgement is the only bossfight. However Subject 67 also shows analytical prediction for dodging projectiles many times faster than him against the DLC boss.

I very clearly explained this earlier. Because Helltaker can't dodge the Supersonic chains. He can only predict where they're going to be and move out of the way. This is why in-game, you get a heads-up display of where they're going to be. The chains cross the entire screen in 1 frame (Literally, I figured out so in my calc), and in 1 frame, The Helltaker can't even move 1 spot over. Thus it's impossible to dodge if it has already been fired. So it would need to be analytical prediction.

Have you been reading my replies to the thread at all? I clarify earlier that he is only hit in gameplay. We see he is completely unscathed after their fight is over when he leaves Hell. In addition, again, the Chains would canonically go through him like paper.

I guess I haven't been very clear, and that's my fault since when writing out all those replies yesterday I was playing a game I couldn't pause so had to switch between here and the game during the countdown to the next round.

To clarify, the chains don't kill him in one hit, but they can penetrate through his entire body in one hit due to being so far above him (Well, if they penetrate his head, then obviously he'd die in one hit, but you know what I mean). This is why he dies a thousand times before the fight with Judgement

Before you say we can't tell if the Chains could penetrate through his body, there is numerous reason to believe why outside of this (Ignoring that the chains go through him in-game rather than shattering or stopping upon making contact).

• Judgement's main method of attacking is using her chains. Which is consistent in the games AND comics where we never ONCE see her fight someone hand to hand and her answer to everything is chains.
• Judgement is the successor to the other most dangerous demon of Hell (Justice defeated Beelzebub who was stated by Lucifer to be the most dangerous kind of demon). So she would certainly upscale from other Demons. This is reflected quite well as throughout the Twitter comic series, she's shown to easily take care of demons with her chains, leaving them completely unable to move (Hell, she doesn't even scale to her own chains. She was able to restrict herself in her own chain in the boss fight). She's also noted to be good at her job which is torturing demons for their sins and shows no fear towards Lucifer's command who is the Queen of Hell (Can be seen in the clip I linked earlier).
• The other demons are shown upscaling greatly from Helltaker as they shatter his bones in a single attack (Snap his neck, break his knees) and impale him. So of course, her Chains would be the MOST capable of piercing through his entire body in one go if she upscales from other demons who can impale him in one stab and upscale from The Helltaker. Heck, she physically doesn't even get to scale to her chains in any way as there's no reason to assume she does.

I didn't mean 100 simultaneously. But this was again my fault for exaggerating due to a distraction mentioned earlier. I meant hundreds back to back. Like, she can launch a ridiculous amount back to back. Simultaneously, she can summon around 6 or more chains from random directions anywhere at her opponent. Which IS absurd and would grant The Helltaker really good analytical prediction.

When you have good analytical prediction you don't NEED to see someone's entire body at once to be able to dodge surprise attacks. He'd be able to make predictions based on what he can see to predict attacks she will throw. This is why it's called analytical prediction. In addition, it's quite clear he doesn't need to see the attack to predict it. He can predict chains being summoned behind him at point blank and dodge it. So to say he can't predict Yor's next movement because he can't see every square inch of her body when he can predict chains 50x faster than himself behind him point blank in constant rapid succession consistently would be a absurd downplay of his ability. Heck, to take it even further, Judgement doesn't physically throw her chains, she just instantly summons them from a random direction, so The Helltaker is predicting the chains randomly being summoned from a random direction ON TOP OF some of them being summoned behind him.

I explained above he can predict things he can't see. Unless you want to for some reason assume Helltaker has eyes all around his head and can thus predict attacks from the side of him, behind him, and in front of him simultaneously. Also, none of the attacks were shot really far away from him. The whole battle takes place on a cramped conveyor belt. THey corner him in and come from every direction, them not being precise doesn't really matter as they'd only be more predictable and easy to dodge if all the attacks came from ONE direction or all together as he wouldn't need to be careful with where he places himself. Him doing what he did is harder than what you described would be difficult unironically. At least to predict anyway. The two are starting the fight staring at each other not too far from one another.

We also seemed to agree earlier that she wouldn't start with hiding, and like she consistently does in the series, she'd opt for confronting him to cqc first. Which would actually be bad for her, because if he lands a single hit on her, she'd be severely crippled and thus greatly hindered in her movement, making her a far easier target.

Explained earlier he can dodge chains being randomly shot behind him at point blank range (Point blank btw doesn't mean like inches away from someone. Just very close) at 50x his own speed without even seeing the attacks. He'd no doubt be able to predict projectiles from Yor that are far slower than the chains and far less numerous and random.

No, you DON'T need to be flexible to dodge attacks like that. You know what he could do to dodge those attacks? Literally leap backwards out of reach. His reach is greater than Yor due to his greater height (And arm span scales with height). So she'd need to get closer to actually tag him, and taking steps backward isn't exactly difficult.

Hell, he doesn't even need to dodge, he can tank most of her attacks due to superior durability even if he IS tagged. I should also note that her projectiles don't even have a 100% chance of piercing him on the first attempt due to greater durability (Or am I wrong, do we assume sharp projectiles and attacks can pierce through the target regardless of an ap and durability difference? If so, ignore that, if we do consider that, than take what I said into consideration). He can ALSO grab her limbs to stop her attacks and throw his own attack at her attack and shatter her hand upon contact if she attempts to collide with his fist. From which again, she becomes crippled and her movements become hindered and easier to read and limits her options.

I'll admit this is impressive, but there's several things you didn't mention here.

Their opponents were giving signals when to shoot, and thus Loid was able to predict when they were going to shoot whenever he gave that new signal and thus move his body weirdly to make it hard to aim and tag him, some people weren't completely out of sight (And even for the ones that were, I'm aware Loid has the ability to sense people watching him and from where), and all the projectiles and people were comparable in speed to him.

Whereas Helltaker was dodging rapid fire "danmaku" (Vs wiki's number of projectiles to be considered danmaku seems kinda arbitrary. But the reason I added the quotation marks there) from every direction point blank in directions he isn't able to see currently WHILE also managing to not get pulled into the spikes of death on each side of the conveyor belt (That the conveyor belt moves him closer to continuously throughout the fight) that are AGAIN all 52x faster than himself.


It seemed his combat ability was hindered simply because we didn't get to see narration from Yor during that second encounter (At least from the scans I see there). From my pov, he seems to be fighting just fine and even requires Yor to dodge and put her acrobatics to use to get in close (and interferes with his chains). So no, to me it doesn't seem like his combat ability was greatly hindered. At most, he seemed to be fighting a bit more brashly or hasty?

Explained he can predict what he can't see, and while being smaller makes them harder to see, it ALSO makes them easier to dodge as they take up less room and thus require less movement to evade. It's the tradeoff for projectiles being small vs large. Both have different benefits. I'd just say Judgement's chains and how they're used in the fight are far more dangerous and hard to evade then Yor's projectiles which aren't even certain to pierce The Helltaker's skin.

The chains she summons are close to him. Several meters away (Closer if you consider the ones that come from top to bottom). I also explained why being less precise would make it more complex to actually predict. As predicting all the attacks coming from one direction and firing in one direction is easier to predict and dodge because all you need to do is move over one pace over. Whereas if the attacks will be coming from everywhere and in different spots, you need to be able to predict the only places the chains WONT be as they can literally be summoned anywhere.


If you had The Helltaker's level of analytical prediction you certainly would be able to dodge all your opponents normal punches, kicks, and hand thrown projectiles. You're overplaying skill if you think that level of precog wouldn't allow you to consistently dodge someone really skilled in CQC. It'd be like saying a person who can predict dozens of bullets being shot at them from random directions and dodge every one of them couldn't evade a black belts moves consistently (An exaggeration, but it's so you get the idea).

Various is vague. You make it seem like he'd need tens of hits when one hit alone would be devastating. Like shattering her bones devastating. Hindering her movements fairly devastating. He really only needs a few hits to win. And grazing him wouldn't be good enough because again, his higher durability would mean even head on her projectiles wouldn't be guaranteed to pierce his skin and thus affect him. Meaning her best win-cons aren't even certain to work (I should make it clear that I don't think her stilettos AREN'T capable of piercing The Helltaker's skin, just that it's not 100% going to, especially if she merely grazes him which will be hard in and of itself because of his analytical prediction).

Helltaker's win-cons are simply landing a few blows, which while hard, is certainly possible, especially if what was said here earlier

is true (To be specific, the part about her being hit by characters slower and weaker).

And every hit after the first will be easier to land due to Yor becoming more and more hindered with each hit due to the AP gap.

Yor on the other hand needs to tag The Helltaker with her poison (Which I'm not sure is her opening move because again, I've only read to Volume 3 so far, but I did recently buy up to volume 6. Pretty good so far) which doesn't even have a 100% chance of piercing his skin AND would have a VERY hard time tagging him on top of that. Plus if he starting move is using her hands or some other sharp weapon that isn't poisonous, she wouldn't even attempt to use her win-con right off the bat.

I just see The Helltaker landing a few hits on her as more plausible than Yor's win-con.

Yor's needles cause piercing damage tho

 

[Peppersalt43]

Yor's needles cause piercing damage tho

That's your only response?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yor's needles cause piercing damage tho

What part are you replying to specifically? You replied to my entire comment.

That said, I already said that despite causing piercing damage, I don't think we assume piercing damage can affect any character no matter the durability difference (Unless it's so sharp it can split atoms, in that case, it's legit durability neg that can affect anyone up to High 3-A in dura like Raiden). Since The Helltaker is several times more durable than how hard Yor can throw her projectiles, there's not a 100% chance it pierces his skin. If he was very close in AP, yea, it'd EASILY pierce his skin. But when he's 5x stronger/durable? Not 100% certain to occur. Some of them may just end up bouncing off his skin. That again isn't to say they CAN'T pierce his skin, just that it wouldn't go in as easily as if he were very close to her AP/Dura.

 

[Doggo]

What part are you replying to specifically? You replied to my entire comment.

That said, I already said that despite causing piercing damage, I don't think we assume piercing damage can affect any character no matter the durability difference (Unless it's so sharp it can split atoms, in that case, it's legit durability neg that can affect anyone up to High 3-A in dura like Raiden). Since The Helltaker is several times more durable than how hard Yor can throw her projectiles, there's not a 100% chance it pierces his skin. If he was very close in AP, yea, it'd EASILY pierce his skin. But when he's 5x stronger/durable? Not 100% certain to occur. Some of them may just end up bouncing off his skin. That again isn't to say they CAN'T pierce his skin, just that it wouldn't go in as easily as if he were very close to her AP/Dura.

Helltaker fra then

 

[LaserPrecision]

Helltaker fra then

Not gonna tell you that you can't switch your vote now. But you might wanna wait until Expectro replies to my comment first. Assuming they do.

 

[KobsterHope07]

That said, I already said that despite causing piercing damage, I don't think we assume piercing damage can affect any character no matter the durability difference (Unless it's so sharp it can split atoms, in that case, it's legit durability neg that can affect anyone up to High 3-A in dura like Raiden). Since The Helltaker is several times more durable than how hard Yor can throw her projectiles, there's not a 100% chance it pierces his skin. If he was very close in AP, yea, it'd EASILY pierce his skin. But when he's 5x stronger/durable? Not 100% certain to occur. Some of them may just end up bouncing off his skin. That again isn't to say they CAN'T pierce his skin, just that it wouldn't go in as easily as if he were very close to her AP/Dura.

I do not know anything about Helltaker, but unless he has actual skin made of iron or steel, Yor's weapon will 100% pierce him and certainly not bounce off. The difference between the two is not that massive.

The Durability page even makes note of how piercing damage works, which is why a bee can pierce our skin despite being vastly weaker and smaller than us.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I do not know anything about Helltaker, but unless he has actual skin made of iron or steel, Yor's weapon will 100% pierce him and certainly not bounce off. The difference between the two is not that massive.

The Durability page even makes note of how piercing damage works, which is why a bee can pierce our skin despite being vastly weaker and smaller than us.

So we assume on the wiki that regardless of the difference in power that piercing damage can work unless the opponent has shown a resistance to piercing damage or am I wrong in that assumption?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

So we assume on the wiki that regardless of the difference in power that piercing damage can work unless the opponent has shown a resistance to piercing damage or am I wrong in that assumption?

I feel like at some point if the AP Gap is massive enough it just won't work. I know I've seen a case for LS working on higher tier fighters because they have a low LS. Though if the AP gap isn't that big, aka still same tier, then it feels like it should work unless they have (as you said) piercing damage res

 

[KobsterHope07]

So we assume on the wiki that regardless of the difference in power that piercing damage can work unless the opponent has shown a resistance to piercing damage or am I wrong in that assumption?

Probably if there is like a massive, I mean MASSIVE gap, it probably won’t work, not to sure myself. But a 5x difference is nowhere enough for Helltaker to suddenly became a iron tank to piercing attacks. This is why I even heard (somewhere on this site I’m sure of) that bullets from regular guns can even hurt Tier High 8-C character due to their piercing damage.

 

[Doggo]

What's the ap gap again?

 

[Peppersalt43]

What's the ap gap again?

5x difference

 

[LaserPrecision]

I feel like at some point if the AP Gap is massive enough it just won't work. I know I've seen a case for LS working on higher tier fighters because they have a low LS. Though if the AP gap isn't that big, aka still same tier, then it feels like it should work unless they have (as you said) piercing damage res

Probably if there is like a massive, I mean MASSIVE gap, it probably won’t work, not to sure myself. But a 5x difference is nowhere enough for Helltaker to suddenly became a iron tank to piercing attacks. This is why I even heard (somewhere on this site I’m sure of) that bullets from regular guns can even hurt Tier High 8-C character due to their piercing damage.

Hmm. Seems fair. Still don't think a slight graze from it would pierce through his skin tho. Think it would need to be a direct hit to go through.

 

[Doggo]

Hmm. Seems fair. Still don't think a slight graze from it would pierce through his skin tho. Think it would need to be a direct hit to go through.

Yor goes for a direct stab

 

[Doggo]

This likely goes down to battle of stamina imo, both characters will just keep their attacks (Yor via skill and enhance senses while Helltaker has anal pre)

 

[Peppersalt43]

anal pre

Wait what?

 

[Doggo]

Wait what?

don't ask

 

[Peppersalt43]

This likely goes down to battle of stamina imo, both characters will just keep their attacks (Yor via skill and enhance senses while Helltaker has anal pre)

Also didn't we just acknowledge that skill isn't gonna be able to deal with that crazy analytical prediction? Don't bring it back

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Wait what?

Anal Prediction.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yor goes for a direct stab

Well of course. The argument was tho that even if Yor grazed him (Because he narrowly evaded one of her attacks, not because she tried to graze him) that it'd still be enough to pierce entirely through his skin and poison him. Which tbh, I don't think something even at his level would easily pierce his skin if it simply grazed him (Sharp things don't really penetrate very good if they just graze someone), let alone him having superior durability. If she got a solid stab on him, then yea, it should pierce him.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Anal Prediction.

TF2 Scout - MY ASS!

If anyone finds the source, let me know so I can credit them. Posted this so it's easy to send reactions to friends.

www.youtube.com

 

[Doggo]

Well of course. The argument was tho that even if Yor grazed him (Because he narrowly evaded one of her attacks, not because she tried to graze him) that it'd still be enough to pierce entirely through his skin and poison him. Which tbh, I don't think something even at his level would easily pierce his skin if it simply grazed him (Sharp things don't really penetrate very good if they just graze someone), let alone him having superior durability. If she got a solid stab on him, then yea, it should pierce him.

fair enough

 

[LaserPrecision]

This likely goes down to battle of stamina imo, both characters will just keep their attacks (Yor via skill and enhance senses while Helltaker has anal pre)

Speaking of which, I should prolly revise Helltaker's stamina. He can not only go through entire mazes of hell which being jumped and attacked and being impaled by spikes and walk it off, he can also be tortured and killed a thousand times and still stand up to fight perfectly fine and then escape Hell afterwards. I'll prolly note it in a CRT with some other changes I have planned.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

One way to resist piercing damage is to have a very high body density, but this is ******* inconsistent. Homelander for example resists bullets easily, but his body density is that of a normal human

 

[Doggo]

As of now I'm either leaning with Helltaker or incon but the choice is yours

 

[LaserPrecision]

I see worst case scenario as in-con. I do think he can pull the win, it'd just be hard. But I'll wait for the Yor supporter to see what they think. I just can't in god conscious say that Yor overcomes relatively good analytical prediction via skill. If it were a One Piece character, sure. I've heard some One Piece characters can bypass stupidly broken precog and analytical prediction via skill or sum shit. But Yor hasn't really shown to bypass analytical prediction on The Helltaker's level via skill.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Didn't thought in continue this but after be asked in the end my curiosity won and saw the comment, so I guess I will begin to write an answer. Gonna take some time but first want to clarify that yeah, an 5x difference isn't even close enough to slightly resist piercing or sharp damage do to how surface area work, is why even 9-C bullets absolutely **** 9-A characters.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Gonna take some time but first want to clarify that yeah, an 5x difference isn't even close enough to slightly resist piercing or sharp damage do to how surface area work, is why even 9-C bullets absolutely **** 9-A characters.

It seems to vary apparently. In some verses you can have 9-A characters be bullet proof as mentioned by Life of King

 

[LaserPrecision]

Should clarify imma prolly be in bed by the time u get your response out.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

It seems to vary apparently. In some verses you can have 9-A characters be bullet proof as mentioned by Life of King

Homenlander is specifically a superhuman (an evil and pathetic superman) created with some drug that granted him various powers, I wouldn't be surprised if those things ended affecting his density or the properties of his skin. By default the wiki make very clear that piercing damage ignore AP to a great extent (like tiers worth of difference).

Should clarify imma prolly be in bed by the time u get your response out.

Ok.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

To clarify, the chains don't kill him in one hit, but they can penetrate through his entire body in one hit due to being so far above him (Well, if they penetrate his head, then obviously he'd die in one hit, but you know what I mean). This is why he dies a thousand times before the fight with Judgement

There is something that I suddenly thought after reading your explanation about the chains, and that is that he faced a thousand times before Judgement right? So wouldn't be possible that the reason of why he is able to predict them is because he have got accustomed to their speed and the way Judgement move them after a thousand times? The fact that you mentioned before this that there is no other case of Helltaker showing analytical prediction in other fights against other enemies made me think that this could actually be the case.

When you have good analytical prediction you don't NEED to see someone's entire body at once to be able to dodge surprise attacks. He'd be able to make predictions based on what he can see to predict attacks she will throw. This is why it's called analytical prediction. In addition, it's quite clear he doesn't need to see the attack to predict it. He can predict chains being summoned behind him at point blank and dodge it. So to say he can't predict Yor's next movement because he can't see every square inch of her body when he can predict chains 50x faster than himself behind him point blank in constant rapid succession consistently would be a absurd downplay of his ability. Heck, to take it even further, Judgement doesn't physically throw her chains, she just instantly summons them from a random direction, so The Helltaker is predicting the chains randomly being summoned from a random direction ON TOP OF some of them being summoned behind him.

Not necessarily though, because is not the same react against projectiles from some distance (that apparently Helltaker is already accustomed to face based on what you said about him facing them a thousand times before) that react against attacks from close distance throw in cqc, the projectiles give are easier to see do to the distance (and in the chain cases also because of their size) and give more time to dodge while cqc attacks can be harder to perceive, can suddenly change direction or do other moves even after dodge them, and give less time and space to dodge, they are different context/situations. If he had feats of effectively using his analytical prediction to dodge and attack in cqc then I wouldn't have a problem, my problem come from assuming that because he can use his analytical prediction against Y in X situation he would be able to use it as effectively against any other opponent any situation regardless of the context.

Regarding the see the attacks from angles that the character shouldn't be able to do, I'm pretty sure that that is just gamep mechanics, is the same reason of why basically all characters from games with third-person perspective can dodge things that logically speaking they shouldn't see as they come from their back or blind spot.

I explained above he can predict things he can't see. Unless you want to for some reason assume Helltaker has eyes all around his head and can thus predict attacks from the side of him, behind him, and in front of him simultaneously. Also, none of the attacks were shot really far away from him. The whole battle takes place on a cramped conveyor belt. THey corner him in and come from every direction, them not being precise doesn't really matter as they'd only be more predictable and easy to dodge if all the attacks came from ONE direction or all together as he wouldn't need to be careful with where he places himself. Him doing what he did is harder than what you described would be difficult unironically. At least to predict anyway. The two are starting the fight staring at each other not too far from one another.

Already mentioned how that was likely game mechanics because of the third-person perspective. On screen one can't see the rest of characters, which mean that they are far enough that the camera don't capture them, and from the blog it seemed like the chains are at least more than 40 meters long, which would increase more the distance from where they are throw, is a situation quite different to be receiving constantly attacks from like two meters or less. They also don't really come from any direction, maybe it could look like that because of the effect when they appear but remember that they are long chains, just throwing them form a big line that reach the other extreme, it would be completely useless for example to throw in the same trajectory a chain from the left and right (or above and below), it wouldn't increase the lethality of the attack in any way and instead would just be a meaningless waste. Not really, because yeah, while certain level of ramdomness can increase the unpredictable it also reduce the lethality in the sense that various times Helltaker wouldn't need to move at all to dodge and various times he would need to barely move to dodge, they also waste time (since they need to disappear to use throw the next chains), and since at the end they are throw by a person they aren't completely random because people have habits and preferences in how they do things so as long one know good enough the other side they can see those things.

We also seemed to agree earlier that she wouldn't start with hiding, and like she consistently does in the series, she'd opt for confronting him to cqc first. Which would actually be bad for her, because if he lands a single hit on her, she'd be severely crippled and thus greatly hindered in her movement, making her a far easier target.

No, we agreed that despite she having the ability to do so she normally don't go full stealth mode on like the assassins that were trying to kill her and her targets, however that doesn't mean that she don't use trick in middle of combat to catch her enemy by surprise when they less expect it, the scans on her profile and the ones posted her show her using covers in middle of combat to defend and attack, she using distractions or feints.

Regarding the argument about a single hit from Helltaker crippling Yor, as the one-shot page states an attack to the torso (were most organs are located) would need a 7.5x difference to one-shot someone and as the thread to change the one-shot gap clarify said value is actually more to incap (because organs aren't that good receiving blunt damage, and is even said to be needed certain tecnique to really incap with one attack) someone than to actually kill or severely injure since to do that the gap have to be greater. So Helltaker need a good hit to the torso to really do what you try to say he would do if he end hitting any part of her body, and said hit wouldn't really be enough because not only the gap is lower than the 7.5x stated in the page but also because her martial skills would let her reduce the force she take from the attack and her stamina would let her continue to move through certain amount of damage and pain.

Explained earlier he can dodge chains being randomly shot behind him at point blank range (Point blank btw doesn't mean like inches away from someone. Just very close) at 50x his own speed without even seeing the attacks. He'd no doubt be able to predict projectiles from Yor that are far slower than the chains and far less numerous and random.

It really depend of how they are throw, their angle, at what distance, the visibility of them, with what precision and at what part they are throw, because Yor can perfectly throw them with the specific purpose of make Helltaker dodge in a way that he would end hit by another attack that he is physically unable to dodge because of the way he dodged the previous attack. In a combat there are several factors to that affect how things play and expert combatants try to take them all in consideration, and someone like Yor with a quite crazy level of skill and combat experience (and even anatomy knowledge) is more than able to use those things at her favor, even more so against someone with a limited amount of combat ability and physical dexterity.

No, you DON'T need to be flexible to dodge attacks like that. You know what he could do to dodge those attacks? Literally leap backwards out of reach. His reach is greater than Yor due to his greater height (And arm span scales with height). So she'd need to get closer to actually tag him, and taking steps backward isn't exactly difficult.

Hell, he doesn't even need to dodge, he can tank most of her attacks due to superior durability even if he IS tagged. I should also note that her projectiles don't even have a 100% chance of piercing him on the first attempt due to greater durability (Or am I wrong, do we assume sharp projectiles and attacks can pierce through the target regardless of an ap and durability difference? If so, ignore that, if we do consider that, than take what I said into consideration). He can ALSO grab her limbs to stop her attacks and throw his own attack at her attack and shatter her hand upon contact if she attempts to collide with his fist. From which again, she becomes crippled and her movements become hindered and easier to read and limits her options.

If he leap backwards (or to the sides) he is a easy target to hit do to be unable to move midair and the projectiles having the speed needed to hit him before his body is able to touch the floor again, so remove the foots from the floor is literally one of the worst things Helltaker could do in this situation (Yor could actually purposely make him jump to make him a easy target). Yeah, his body is naturally longer, however it is by a gap of some centimeters, let's assume there is a difference of 15 centimeters (since in the calcs was used is used the avergae male height of 175cm while there are a calc that put Yor at 160 which also makes sense with the average japanese woman height), now add to that the heel from her shoes that she always use (so if going by the average mid heel 7.5cm, and since the link mention how high heels are used with dresse and Yor always use a dress when fighting should be fair to use 10cm) so a diffence of 7.5-5cm, something really small, now add to her arm length her stilettos which should be like 33cm long and the result is that she actually have a considerably longer reach. You also are ignoring that he can't go back forever since he need to be close to her to punch and attack her with his lower range/reach. I feel like you are also ignoring other factors like that if he move too recklessly dodging Yor precise and calculated attacks from cqc he would end making mistakes in his center of balance, footwork, footing, etc that Yor can and will exploit.

Nope, he can't actually tank her attacks because they ignore durability to a certain extent, the stilettos because piercing and sharp damage ignore gaps of several thousands, and the rest of attacks without weapons because pressure points especifically exploit weakness in the body anatomy by focusing forces in small areas (so surface area also apply here though not as absurdly as with blades).

The granbing part is fair, problem be that with Yor agility, flexibility (along with her senses and IR obviously) and skill that would be really hard, plus if he do that Yor would be able to attack him more easier with the rest if her body.

As mentioned in the one-shot gap thread I linked before not even a 7.5x gap is actually enough to really damage the body (it can damage organs do to their nature and if weak spots like the head are hit is possible to knock someone, though from my experience after investigating in the wwe downgrade threads the duration of said knock out greatly depend of the affected individual) so her hand isn't going to shatter at all.

I'll admit this is impressive, but there's several things you didn't mention here.

Their opponents were giving signals when to shoot, and thus Loid was able to predict when they were going to shoot whenever he gave that new signal and thus move his body weirdly to make it hard to aim and tag him, some people weren't completely out of sight (And even for the ones that were, I'm aware Loid has the ability to sense people watching him and from where), and all the projectiles and people were comparable in speed to him.

Whereas Helltaker was dodging rapid fire "danmaku" (Vs wiki's number of projectiles to be considered danmaku seems kinda arbitrary. But the reason I added the quotation marks there) from every direction point blank in directions he isn't able to see currently WHILE also managing to not get pulled into the spikes of death on each side of the conveyor belt (That the conveyor belt moves him closer to continuously throughout the fight) that are AGAIN all 52x faster than himself.

The signal was only at the beginning the first time, after that you can't see them give more signals, which is even supported by how the staff was taking the iniciative of coordinate between themselves and impaire both of them with the best of their abilitites, it would also be quite obvious and dangerous if the Campbell continued with their signals (like they would had cut their tongues if they had to take it out in the middle of all their jumping and violent movements).

Already commented enough about the Judgement fight so not going to same more.

It seemed his combat ability was hindered simply because we didn't get to see narration from Yor during that second encounter (At least from the scans I see there). From my pov, he seems to be fighting just fine and even requires Yor to dodge and put her acrobatics to use to get in close (and interferes with his chains). So no, to me it doesn't seem like his combat ability was greatly hindered. At most, he seemed to be fighting a bit more brashly or hasty?

... Ok, I already explained in depth various times those few pages (even Kobster gave more evidence supporting my explanation), if you still think like at the very beginning then I can't do more. Just going to at least say that the motive of why Yor was doing all those acrobatics is because she especifically said (in the scans that I already posted various times) that she needed to make the crow believe everything was an perfomance.

Explained he can predict what he can't see, and while being smaller makes them harder to see, it ALSO makes them easier to dodge as they take up less room and thus require less movement to evade. It's the tradeoff for projectiles being small vs large. Both have different benefits. I'd just say Judgement's chains and how they're used in the fight are far more dangerous and hard to evade then Yor's projectiles which aren't even certain to pierce The Helltaker's skin.

Already talked about those point so moving on.

The chains she summons are close to him. Several meters away (Closer if you consider the ones that come from top to bottom). I also explained why being less precise would make it more complex to actually predict. As predicting all the attacks coming from one direction and firing in one direction is easier to predict and dodge because all you need to do is move over one pace over. Whereas if the attacks will be coming from everywhere and in different spots, you need to be able to predict the only places the chains WONT be as they can literally be summoned anywhere.

Same as the previous part. Just want to add though that if she really had the ability to summon various projectiles from all directions with a 52x speed advantage she could had easily defeated Helltaker if she thought at least a bit harder instead of be throwing things at random because one don't need to be especially smart to think patterns that would undoubtly kill him in that arena. I now that the motive was because otherwise the game would be unbeatable but still should be recognized how narratively speaking was quite stupid her fighting decision.

If you had The Helltaker's level of analytical prediction you certainly would be able to dodge all your opponents normal punches, kicks, and hand thrown projectiles. You're overplaying skill if you think that level of precog wouldn't allow you to consistently dodge someone really skilled in CQC. It'd be like saying a person who can predict dozens of bullets being shot at them from random directions and dodge every one of them couldn't evade a black belts moves consistently (An exaggeration, but it's so you get the idea).

The point is be able to use it in a effective way that let dodge effectively and consistently land hits in good spots. If you don't have the physical dexterity, coordination and knowledge to move in middle of combat then you will end hit even if you could see the attacks at slow motion (if your body could move at those speed would be obviously different though), this because you would move in ways that would throw off your center of gravity, your footwork and even footing, and if you lack the wisdom to think ahead in the future then you can end falling in the opponent trap and receive attacks physically impossible to dodge (by the angle they come, the posture you are, the surrounding space left to move, etc).

Various is vague. You make it seem like he'd need tens of hits when one hit alone would be devastating. Like shattering her bones devastating. Hindering her movements fairly devastating. He really only needs a few hits to win. And grazing him wouldn't be good enough because again, his higher durability would mean even head on her projectiles wouldn't be guaranteed to pierce his skin and thus affect him. Meaning her best win-cons aren't even certain to work (I should make it clear that I don't think her stilettos AREN'T capable of piercing The Helltaker's skin, just that it's not 100% going to, especially if she merely grazes him which will be hard in and of itself because of his analytical prediction).

Helltaker's win-cons are simply landing a few blows, which while hard, is certainly possible, especially if what was said here earlier

One good landed hit in the head? Yeah, maybe that could knock her off for some moments considering her stamina, a good landed hit in the torso without her mitigating the force with martial techniques? Yeah, that could paralyze her some seconds and hinder her do to the possible organ damage. But otherwise unless those things happend Helltaker would need at least several attacks decently landed. Unless he is a man of steel her weapons can absolutely cut and pierce him, (think of it like this, even a small piece of paper can make the strongest man in the planet bleed from the cut, and a dagger/stiletto are significantly more sharper and dangerous than paper).

Yor win con is just land or, either with her poisoned weapon or pressure points from the attacks of her limbs, while Helltaker win con is land several good hits in Yor.

 

[Cimafranca133]

There is something that I suddenly thought after reading your explanation about the chains, and that is that he faced a thousand times before Judgement right? So wouldn't be possible that the reason of why he is able to predict them is because he have got accustomed to their speed and the way Judgement move them after a thousand times? The fact that you mentioned before this that there is no other case of Helltaker showing analytical prediction in other fights against other enemies made me think that this could actually be the case.

Not necessarily though, because is not the same react against projectiles from some distance (that apparently Helltaker is already accustomed to face based on what you said about him facing them a thousand times before) that react against attacks from close distance throw in cqc, the projectiles give are easier to see do to the distance (and in the chain cases also because of their size) and give more time to dodge while cqc attacks can be harder to perceive, can suddenly change direction or do other moves even after dodge them, and give less time and space to dodge, they are different context/situations. If he had feats of effectively using his analytical prediction to dodge and attack in cqc then I wouldn't have a problem, my problem come from assuming that because he can use his analytical prediction against Y in X situation he would be able to use it as effectively against any other opponent any situation regardless of the context.

Regarding the see the attacks from angles that the character shouldn't be able to do, I'm pretty sure that that is just gamep mechanics, is the same reason of why basically all characters from games with third-person perspective can dodge things that logically speaking they shouldn't see as they come from their back or blind spot.

Already mentioned how that was likely game mechanics because of the third-person perspective. On screen one can't see the rest of characters, which mean that they are far enough that the camera don't capture them, and from the blog it seemed like the chains are at least more than 40 meters long, which would increase more the distance from where they are throw, is a situation quite different to be receiving constantly attacks from like two meters or less. They also don't really come from any direction, maybe it could look like that because of the effect when they appear but remember that they are long chains, just throwing them form a big line that reach the other extreme, it would be completely useless for example to throw in the same trajectory a chain from the left and right (or above and below), it wouldn't increase the lethality of the attack in any way and instead would just be a meaningless waste. Not really, because yeah, while certain level of ramdomness can increase the unpredictable it also reduce the lethality in the sense that various times Helltaker wouldn't need to move at all to dodge and various times he would need to barely move to dodge, they also waste time (since they need to disappear to use throw the next chains), and since at the end they are throw by a person they aren't completely random because people have habits and preferences in how they do things so as long one know good enough the other side they can see those things.

No, we agreed that despite she having the ability to do so she normally don't go full stealth mode on like the assassins that were trying to kill her and her targets, however that doesn't mean that she don't use trick in middle of combat to catch her enemy by surprise when they less expect it, the scans on her profile and the ones posted her show her using covers in middle of combat to defend and attack, she using distractions or feints.

Regarding the argument about a single hit from Helltaker crippling Yor, as the one-shot page states an attack to the torso (were most organs are located) would need a 7.5x difference to one-shot someone and as the thread to change the one-shot gap clarify said value is actually more to incap (because organs aren't that good receiving blunt damage, and is even said to be needed certain tecnique to really incap with one attack) someone than to actually kill or severely injure since to do that the gap have to be greater. So Helltaker need a good hit to the torso to really do what you try to say he would do if he end hitting any part of her body, and said hit wouldn't really be enough because not only the gap is lower than the 7.5x stated in the page but also because her martial skills would let her reduce the force she take from the attack and her stamina would let her continue to move through certain amount of damage and pain.

It really depend of how they are throw, their angle, at what distance, the visibility of them, with what precision and at what part they are throw, because Yor can perfectly throw them with the specific purpose of make Helltaker dodge in a way that he would end hit by another attack that he is physically unable to dodge because of the way he dodged the previous attack. In a combat there are several factors to that affect how things play and expert combatants try to take them all in consideration, and someone like Yor with a quite crazy level of skill and combat experience (and even anatomy knowledge) is more than able to use those things at her favor, even more so against someone with a limited amount of combat ability and physical dexterity.

If he leap backwards (or to the sides) he is a easy target to hit do to be unable to move midair and the projectiles having the speed needed to hit him before his body is able to touch the floor again, so remove the foots from the floor is literally one of the worst things Helltaker could do in this situation (Yor could actually purposely make him jump to make him a easy target). Yeah, his body is naturally longer, however it is by a gap of some centimeters, let's assume there is a difference of 15 centimeters (since in the calcs was used is used the avergae male height of 175cm while there are a calc that put Yor at 160 which also makes sense with the average japanese woman height), now add to that the heel from her shoes that she always use (so if going by the average mid heel 7.5cm, and since the link mention how high heels are used with dresse and Yor always use a dress when fighting should be fair to use 10cm) so a diffence of 7.5-5cm, something really small, now add to her arm length her stilettos which should be like 33cm long and the result is that she actually have a considerably longer reach. You also are ignoring that he can't go back forever since he need to be close to her to punch and attack her with his lower range/reach. I feel like you are also ignoring other factors like that if he move too recklessly dodging Yor precise and calculated attacks from cqc he would end making mistakes in his center of balance, footwork, footing, etc that Yor can and will exploit.

Nope, he can't actually tank her attacks because they ignore durability to a certain extent, the stilettos because piercing and sharp damage ignore gaps of several thousands, and the rest of attacks without weapons because pressure points especifically exploit weakness in the body anatomy by focusing forces in small areas (so surface area also apply here though not as absurdly as with blades).

The granbing part is fair, problem be that with Yor agility, flexibility (along with her senses and IR obviously) and skill that would be really hard, plus if he do that Yor would be able to attack him more easier with the rest if her body.

As mentioned in the one-shot gap thread I linked before not even a 7.5x gap is actually enough to really damage the body (it can damage organs do to their nature and if weak spots like the head are hit is possible to knock someone, though from my experience after investigating in the wwe downgrade threads the duration of said knock out greatly depend of the affected individual) so her hand isn't going to shatter at all.

The signal was only at the beginning the first time, after that you can't see them give more signals, which is even supported by how the staff was taking the iniciative of coordinate between themselves and impaire both of them with the best of their abilitites, it would also be quite obvious and dangerous if the Campbell continued with their signals (like they would had cut their tongues if they had to take it out in the middle of all their jumping and violent movements).

Already commented enough about the Judgement fight so not going to same more.

... Ok, I already explained in depth various times those few pages (even Kobster gave more evidence supporting my explanation), if you still think like at the very beginning then I can't do more. Just going to at least say that the motive of why Yor was doing all those acrobatics is because she especifically said (in the scans that I already posted various times) that she needed to make the crow believe everything was an perfomance.

Already talked about those point so moving on.

Same as the previous part. Just want to add though that if she really had the ability to summon various projectiles from all directions with a 52x speed advantage she could had easily defeated Helltaker if she thought at least a bit harder instead of be throwing things at random because one don't need to be especially smart to think patterns that would undoubtly kill him in that arena. I now that the motive was because otherwise the game would be unbeatable but still should be recognized how narratively speaking was quite stupid her fighting decision.

The point is be able to use it in a effective way that let dodge effectively and consistently land hits in good spots. If you don't have the physical dexterity, coordination and knowledge to move in middle of combat then you will end hit even if you could see the attacks at slow motion (if your body could move at those speed would be obviously different though), this because you would move in ways that would throw off your center of gravity, your footwork and even footing, and if you lack the wisdom to think ahead in the future then you can end falling in the opponent trap and receive attacks physically impossible to dodge (by the angle they come, the posture you are, the surrounding space left to move, etc).

One good landed hit in the head? Yeah, maybe that could knock her off for some moments considering her stamina, a good landed hit in the torso without her mitigating the force with martial techniques? Yeah, that could paralyze her some seconds and hinder her do to the possible organ damage. But otherwise unless those things happend Helltaker would need at least several attacks decently landed. Unless he is a man of steel her weapons can absolutely cut and pierce him, (think of it like this, even a small piece of paper can make the strongest man in the planet bleed from the cut, and a dagger/stiletto are significantly more sharper and dangerous than paper).

Yor win con is just land or, either with her poisoned weapon or pressure points from the attacks of her limbs, while Helltaker win con is land several good hits in Yor.

Just vote incon and move on