Yhwach vs Wonder Of U

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Yhwach has never used these abilities in the manga, nor has he ever used yamamoto's bankai, despite having it.
Yhwach was specified to have them in this battle.

That doesn't mean he can now use them now. Just because you can perform X action does not mean you'd do it in character. Again, even if OP were to specify he has these abilities, does not mean he'd use it. So all of this is irrelevant.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Can you substantiate WoU being able to ignore Tooru's commands and do whatever it wants regardless of Tooru? WoU continuing to exist and function after Tooru's death isn't proof of this btw, you'd need to show WoU directly ignoring Tooru's command for example.

Yhwach doesn't need to dodge, why? Because WoU could never even in a billion years actually even remotely threaten Yhwach, he simply doesn't have an ability that can put Yhwach down or incap him.

Not sure if you're aware but AE Type 2 doesn't require anything special to interact with, so yes, Yhwach can manipulate a future with WoU in it.

Calamity doesn't prevent Yhwach from absorbing Tooru though, it just inflicts random things upon Yhwach such as damaging him etc, too bad that none of these things actually achieve anything as Yhwach can even rewrite fate to undo his death and with the Schrifts has Mid-Godly.

He knows all powers he sees which is stated, as long as it isn't higher-dimensional or the character isn't resistant to information analysis then it's fair game, neither apply to WoU.

You're clearly asking a question you already know the answer to and it's pointless, no Yhwach has never used the Schrifts, it doesn't change that the OP of this thread intends Yhwach to be at his strongest and have access to them, two things you're trying to skirt around by saying he won't use them.

I already asked the OP this question and the OP has the ability to dictate mind sets so just wait for his response.

Resistance to law/logic manip is resistance to law/logic manip, WoU isn't unconventional or special in this regard, nor does it overcome resistance.

Going over the facts

• Yhwach resists law/logic manip
• Yhwach resists causality manip which I'm 99% sure encompasses WoU's core abilities
• Yhwach has fate manip that is literally several orders of infinity superior to WoU's
• Yhwach has a feat of absorbing a character with 4-D fate hax so there's no reason he can't absorb Tooru's ability which is vastly inferior

This is a massive stomp, Yhwach absorbs Tooru and takes control over WoU to incap it, nothing suggests otherwise.

Can you prove that absorbing tooru means he has the ability to control a stand user's ability? Can you prove that Yhwach can absorb all traits that Tooru has as an stand user? Doubt.

Can you substantiate WoU being able to ignore Tooru's commands and do whatever it wants regardless of Tooru? WoU continuing to exist and function after Tooru's death isn't proof of this btw, you'd need to show WoU directly ignoring Tooru's command for example.

Yeah, I did, if you even bothered to use whole context of what I said when I explained the relationship between Tooru and WOU, which was that Tooru and WOU have the same goals, that's why they work together, lol. If WOU sees a dude absorb Tooru, it's clear cut that he no longer has an ally that he is gonna work together with, more so when its a dude that poses a THREAT to him. WOU was just the means for Tooru to use calamity to his own needs (Namely the goals both WOU and Tooru have in mind. WOU still continued on to do whatever he did even when Tooru was dead.) Also you're assuming WOU to be the same as Stone Free, whose whole actions and everything it does is done via the host's will, which ain't the same here for WOU. Y O U are the one that needs to prove that a being that is its own entity and is cognizant, can be commanded/controlled by the host's will.

Yhwach doesn't need to dodge, why? Because WoU could never even in a billion years actually even remotely threaten Yhwach, he simply doesn't have an ability that can put Yhwach down or incap him.

He has an ability that can hinder him, lol. Maybe even make him t r i p. Thus, Yhwach would be busy, and unable to like, even touch WOU.

Not sure if you're aware but AE Type 2 doesn't require anything special to interact with, so yes, Yhwach can manipulate a future with WoU in it.

No. The ability to manipulate a future to where you manipulate an AE Type 2's own body and actions or whatever else, needs proof in the first place. It's like saying Yhwach can now manipulate the future of a Multi+ dude which doesn't make sense, as the hax itself needs feats for stuff like this. Though this goes for any hax/ability anyways.

Calamity doesn't prevent Yhwach from absorbing Tooru though, it just inflicts random things upon Yhwach such as damaging him etc, too bad that none of these things actually achieve anything as Yhwach can even rewrite fate to undo his death and with the Schrifts has Mid-Godly.

Yes, and even ******* around with fate, etc, which I already said. And Calamity can do a lot of stuff other than throwing objects at you, like making you trip or whatever, everything is basically against a dude who is subjected to calamity. "Rewrite fate to undo his death" Well. I don't really care since I am trying to go for a inconclusive here, I already knew from long ago that WOU can't kill Yhwach here anyways. Yhwach can rewrite fate to undo his death, that's cool, but that also makes it harder for him to even approach WOU here, or even touch him.

He knows all powers he sees which is stated, as long as it isn't higher-dimensional or the character isn't resistant to information analysis then it's fair game, neither apply to WoU.

No, that's a blatant NLF fallacy. That ability in question needs to have feats for having the ability to know X opponents ability. This is the same as saying that a character that is able to completely understand the concept of car would mean that without feats/statements he could do the same with any other mechanical tool, like say, a plane. Which isn't how it works brodie. So it ain't about resistance but proof that Yhwach can know literally anything with feats.

You're clearly asking a question you already know the answer to and it's pointless, no Yhwach has never used the Schrifts, it doesn't change that the OP of this thread intends Yhwach to be at his strongest and have access to them, two things you're trying to skirt around by saying he won't use them.

No, You never really answered from what I remember. Also no, the OP can't do that, where is that said the OP has the ability to make it so that a character that has never used a certain ability ever before, would now be capable of making it so that it's in character??? That does not make sense, at all. Since when could you change what move or ability the character would lead out with, let alone use? "Yhwach is intended to be at its strongest" Cool, but no proof that he can use these abilities in character yet lol.

Resistance to law/logic manip is resistance to law/logic manip, WoU isn't unconventional or special in this regard, nor does it overcome resistance.

That's like saying having resistance to basic poison would now make you immune to the world's strongest poison, lol. Again, haxes needs feats for their level of hax. It's like how every Precognition ability is not the same for fictional characters, or how having the same type of hax doesn't mean it works exactly the same, be it the cause or the effect.

Going over the facts

• Yhwach resists law/logic manip
• Yhwach resists causality manip which I'm 99% sure encompasses WoU's core abilities
• Yhwach has fate manip that is literally several orders of infinity superior to WoU's
• Yhwach has a feat of absorbing a character with 4-D fate hax so there's no reason he can't absorb Tooru's ability which is vastly inferior

And these are based on what? Which one is Yhwach's abilities and which one is Stenritter. Cuz I gotta say again: Stenritter abilities ain't gonna be used when he hasn't ever used it before. the OP could include these abilities all he wants, but still doesn't matter if the character has never used it before, or say, ever implied to even try to use it. (Idk if he has implied that he will try to use it or not so shrug, just saying it as an "IF")

This is a massive stomp, Yhwach absorbs Tooru and takes control over WoU to incap it, nothing suggests otherwise.

Yeah, and all I see is a inconclusive match, nothing stompy here. And again, Absorbing tooru does NOTHING. so... yeah.

 

[Lynieryz]

Incon FRA

 

[Deceived3596]

Can you prove that absorbing tooru means he has the ability to control a stand user's ability? Can you prove that Yhwach can absorb all traits that Tooru has as an stand user? Doubt.

Yes because he would gain the inherent ability to similar to how he gain the inherent ability/physiology of the Mimihagi, Yes we can, he gain every single ability and resistance that the Mimihagi had, this is already accepted and is heavily evidenced on his profile for everyone to see. So if you needs scans check out his profile, you'll eventually find them.

And these are based on what? Which one is Yhwach's abilities and which one is Stenritter. Cuz I gotta say again: Stenritter abilities ain't gonna be used when he hasn't ever used it before. the OP could include these abilities all he wants, but still doesn't matter if the character has never used it before, or say, ever implied to even try to use it. (Idk if he has implied that he will try to use it or not so shrug, just saying it as an "IF")

• Yhwach resisting Law/Logic Manipulation is from possessing the X-Axis which nullifies the logic of others when activated.
• Yhwach resisting Causality Manipulation is through absorbing the Soul King into himself and gaining his resistances.
• Yhwach has 4-D Fate Manipulation which is explained in-depth in his "Almighty" tabber, and 4-D Fate Manipulation is objectively higher then anything that Tooru has.
• Yhwach absorbing someone with 4-D Hax's is from the fact he absorbed the Soul King and his abilities, which includes his 4-D Fate Manipulation and Precognition. It's also from the fact he absorbed Mimihagi and gained his resistances, which includes his 4-D Precognition resistance.

---

Also the constant appeal to the fact that Yhwach never canonically used his sternritter abilities isn't exactly a great argument against Yhwach using his sternritter abilities in this fight, since this fight isn't bounded by plot constraints like Yhwach was in the main story, Yhwach isn't beholden to the whims and ways of Kubo since this a hypothetical fight, not something that's actually drawn and written by Kubo.

Yhwach has 4-D Precognition and 4-D Information Analysis which would grant him every bit of knowledge regarding everything about Tooru and his Stand, which means if needed, Yhwach can and will absolutely use his Sternritter Schrifts. That's it.

Yhwach precogs and understands everything about Wonder Of U's abilities, nullifying them instantly and then he gets absorbed by Yhwach via his Almighty.

Yhwach FRA.

 

[Arcker123]

Yhwach FRA

WoU has no actual winconcs whereas Yhwach can stomp with many abilities.

 

[Shey]

Isn't that just a stomp

 

[Deceived3596]

Yes, specifically for Yhwach.

 

[Purgy]

Yhwach mega stomps FRA

No point voting though, because as I said, it can't be added either way

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Yes because he would gain the inherent ability to similar to how he gain the inherent ability/physiology of the Mimihagi, Yes we can, he gain every single ability and resistance that the Mimihagi had, this is already accepted and is heavily evidenced on his profile for everyone to see. So if you needs scans check out his profile, you'll eventually find them.

• Yhwach resisting Law/Logic Manipulation is from possessing the X-Axis which nullifies the logic of others when activated.
• Yhwach resisting Causality Manipulation is through absorbing the Soul King into himself and gaining his resistances.
• Yhwach has 4-D Fate Manipulation which is explained in-depth in his "Almighty" tabber, and 4-D Fate Manipulation is objectively higher then anything that Tooru has.
• Yhwach absorbing someone with 4-D Hax's is from the fact he absorbed the Soul King and his abilities, which includes his 4-D Fate Manipulation and Precognition. It's also from the fact he absorbed Mimihagi and gained his resistances, which includes his 4-D Precognition resistance.

---

Also the constant appeal to the fact that Yhwach never canonically used his sternritter abilities isn't exactly a great argument against Yhwach using his sternritter abilities in this fight, since this fight isn't bounded by plot constraints like Yhwach was in the main story, Yhwach isn't beholden to the whims and ways of Kubo since this a hypothetical fight, not something that's actually drawn and written by Kubo.

Yhwach has 4-D Precognition and 4-D Information Analysis which would grant him every bit of knowledge regarding everything about Tooru and his Stand, which means if needed, Yhwach can and will absolutely use his Sternritter Schrifts. That's it.

Yhwach precogs and understands everything about Wonder Of U's abilities, nullifying them instantly and then he gets absorbed by Yhwach via his Almighty.

Yhwach FRA.

Bro just said plot constraints when I said in-character. crazy.

Yes because he would gain the inherent ability to similar to how he gain the inherent ability/physiology of the Mimihagi, Yes we can, he gain every single ability and resistance that the Mimihagi had, this is already accepted and is heavily evidenced on his profile for everyone to see. So if you needs scans check out his profile, you'll eventually find them.

Why would that mean he has the same traits as a stand user would upon absorption? Not counting the countless amount of rules a stand would have to be bounded by, like the user would.

Yhwach resisting Law/Logic Manipulation is from possessing the X-Axis which nullifies the logic of others when activated.

Could you provide proof for this please. I do not see any solid proof for that being law/logic manipulation when I checked the yhwach profile.

Yhwach resisting Causality Manipulation is through absorbing the Soul King into himself and gaining his resistances.

Is it based on that orihime character? If so, can you debunk this? (Not from me)

"Some people say that Yhwach has resistance to causality manipulation, but he doesn't

Orihime's abilities work in a very specific manner, it works in the same way that the undo option on a computer does, it doesn't come under causality manipulation because Reject doesn't actually reverse the effects fully, the cause remains in the timeline, she just reality warps so that it goes back to the say it originally was. So he has no reason to resist causality manipulation"

Yhwach has 4-D Fate Manipulation which is explained in-depth in his "Almighty" tabber, and 4-D Fate Manipulation is objectively higher then anything that Tooru has.

Another argument I found, is this true that Ichigo got a 10x increase?

Very, very limited fate manipulation, to the point where Ichigo, a brick with no esoteric powers, getting a 10x increase to his stats would "cause lots of problems" for said fate manipulation

Yhwach absorbing someone with 4-D Hax's is from the fact he absorbed the Soul King and his abilities, which includes his 4-D Fate Manipulation and Precognition. It's also from the fact he absorbed Mimihagi and gained his resistances, which includes his 4-D Precognition resistance.

See above for the fate part. As for Mimihagi, idk about that one.

Also the constant appeal to the fact that Yhwach never canonically used his sternritter abilities isn't exactly a great argument against Yhwach using his sternritter abilities in this fight, since this fight isn't bounded by plot constraints like Yhwach was in the main story, Yhwach isn't beholden to the whims and ways of Kubo since this a hypothetical fight, not something that's actually drawn and written by Kubo.

No. Cut that off. Stop with this "well OP specified he has these abilities so it means he'd use it in-character with them being his first moves" logic. Where do you even get this from? Based on what? When did VSBW rules say you can change the in-character behavior, combat style, etc? This isn't bloodlusted or anything bro You can't modify it, so stop it. Also, it ain't about being bound by plot, this is about character behavior, not plot dude. "Not something drawn or written by Kubo" does literally not matter when a vs battle fight analyzes WHAT the character actually can and would do. Saying he'd use stenritter is basically OOC and trying to argue for something he has never attempted or done before, to saying he can use it normally like he'd do. Either bring empirical evidence that says the OP has the right to implement new in-character changes to a character from vs battle rules, or drop it.

Yhwach has 4-D Precognition and 4-D Information Analysis which would grant him every bit of knowledge regarding everything about Tooru and his Stand, which means if needed, Yhwach can and will absolutely use his Sternritter Schrifts. That's it.

What type of dimensional are we talking about? Axis or what? An additional axis doesn't really mean tbh. Either way, can you prove IT can analyze something like calamity is? If not, then this is kinda nlf on your part bro.

Yhwach precogs and understands everything about Wonder Of U's abilities, nullifying them instantly and then he gets absorbed by Yhwach via his Almighty.

don't see any convincing proof that says he could. so. shrug.

 

[Torsin]

Very, very limited fate manipulation, to the point where Ichigo, a brick with no esoteric powers, getting a 10x increase to his stats would "cause lots of problems" for said fate manipulation

You mean the same Ichigo whose bankai got negged by Yhwach using the Almighty the very next panel? Suuuurrreee....

What type of dimensional are we talking about? Axis or what? An additional axis doesn't really mean tbh. Either way, can you prove IT can analyze something like calamity is? If not, then this is kinda nlf on your part bro.

don't see any convincing proof that says he could. so. shrug.

I mean isn't the burden of proof on you to prove WOU has something special/resistance which would help it against info analysis and fate manip on a 4d scale? Cause based on the current profile I don't see anything of that sort.

 

[Hellscream]

Seems like this is a stomp now, so it should get closed.

 

[Purgy]

Seems like this is a stomp now, so it should get closed.

It was already kind of a stomp but now it's just brutal

Bleach wank reigns supreme

 

[Peak]

Seems like this is a stomp now, so it should get closed.

It was already kind of a stomp but now it's just brutal

Bleach wank reigns supreme

Has Yhwach received new updates? Can you link please?

 

[Hellscream]

Has Yhwach received new updates? Can you link please?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-profile-creations-quincy.146495/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/gremmy-thoumeaux-and-guenael-lee-upgrades.146529/

It's mostly indirect changes, which yhwach gets as well, since he's pretty much a composite quincy.

 

[Peak]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-profile-creations-quincy.146495/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/gremmy-thoumeaux-and-guenael-lee-upgrades.146529/

It's mostly indirect changes, which yhwach gets as well, since he's pretty much a composite quincy.

Huh, this is cool