Yet Another GoW Question

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Currently, all instances of soul manipulation in God of War have the following properties. This applies to both the Greek and Norse games.

Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation & Memory Manipulation, Probability Manipulation & Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Souls are constructs of magic, composed of their form, the metaphysical nature of a being, their luck, their mind and their direction. Damaging souls can shatter and fragment their memories as a consequence.[16])

I won't contest the abilities themselves here, but it should be noted that the statements about the soul's nature only come from the Nordic pantheon. The Grecian pantheon has no such statements, so I would like to ask why souls from two vastly different cosmologies with different afterlives are being composited; The explanation page offers no explanation for this (odd, considering the name) and I've found no prior discussion on this topic.

 

[ShionAH]

I always wondered this, giving the entire verse and everything in it CM1 due to a single statement from Norses after life is crazy

 

[Deagonx]

giving the entire verse and everything in it CM1 due to a single statement from Norses after life is crazy

To be honest, CM1 is entirely nonsensical from the premise, too. Even as dubious as I felt the "gods are Type 1 concepts" stuff was, treating every single soul as a type 1 concept is indefensible, nothing in the scans even remotely supports it. But with the verse being as bad as it is hax wise, it doesn't come as a surprise.

 

[ShionAH]

To

True true also can I ask you something, Kratos has resistance to Sleep hax yet the profile acknowledge that he was affected by it. Am I missing some context?

"Was the only person in the world not to be immediately affected by Morpheus seizing power. However, with prolonged exposure to the fog, he eventually succumbed"

 

[Planck69]

This is said by a Celtic Faerie to a Jotunn and an Olympian and he makes no actual distinction whatsoever. This is just basic understanding of the scene.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also doesn't Kratos's soul operate this same way despite being from the Greek Pantheon? I do see the concern but based on what we know, I don't believe different Pantheons would cause any stark differences

 

[chosen]

I dissagree with planck, make Kratos comicvine level or i am hacking antvasima

 

[Pepsimanslover_69]

Kratos can die and he would go to Valhalla, his soul operates just fine in Norse.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

This is said by a Celtic Faerie to a Jotunn and an Olympian and he makes no actual distinction whatsoever. This is just basic understanding of the scene.

Yeah, he doesn't make any distinction because he doesn't need to. They're in the Nine Realms when he says this, why on earth would he be referring to souls from a world that literally does not exist anymore?

 

[Deagonx]

Kratos has resistance to Sleep hax yet the profile acknowledge that he was affected by it. Am I missing some context?

"Was the only person in the world not to be immediately affected by Morpheus seizing power. However, with prolonged exposure to the fog, he eventually succumbed"

No, Kratos just doesn't have such an ability. The scarce few other humans encountered during that period are not sleeping. Some gods are, but when you first return to the town and see Morpheus has taken over, the towns folk are being slaughtered by monsters, not falling asleep en masse. Nothing is said to suggest that Kratos remaining awake is surprising or due to an ability of his. It'll probably get removed at some point, but there's just so much to get through with this verse that it's hard to say when it'll happen.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

This is said by a Celtic Faerie to a Jotunn and an Olympian and he makes no actual distinction whatsoever. This is just basic understanding of the scene.

Kratos was born in the norse pantheon

 

[ShionAH]

It'll probably get removed at some point, but there's just so much to get through with this verse that it's hard to say when it'll happen.

Thanks for yoır answer, I’ll add that to my CRT

 

[Fixxed]

Yeah i agree with planck, and also there are no contradict proof. Unless of course you can show it operate differently in both land

We take the most simple understanding (occam razor) for not make any assumption that far from the context it self

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Yeah i agree with planck, and also there are no contradict proof. Unless of course you can show it operate differently in both land

We take the most simple understanding (occam razor) for not make any assumption that far from the context it self

Occam's Razor in this case would be not assuming that two cosmologies with wildly different origins for everything somehow happen to have identical systems in place for their souls and afterlives. Like, if the magic page is to be believed, magic, souls, and lifeforce are the same, so souls only came into being when Chaos did (as Chaos is the primordial of life), but even though Chaos is strictly limited to the Greek pantheon, their creation of souls also somehow applied to the Norse pantheon as well? This is also excluding how the page also insinuates magic came before Chaos but jfc this is already enough of a clusterfuck as is so I'll save that for later

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Yeah, he doesn't make any distinction because he doesn't need to. They're in the Nine Realms when he says this, why on earth would he be referring to souls from a world that literally does not exist anymore?

To add onto this, Mimir doesn't really know enough about Kratos' homeland to say with certainty that souls work the same over there. You can see that with his curiosity regarding the nature of Grecian magic (which is the same as the soul, according to the explanation page; For a guy who supposedly knows about Grecian souls, he doesn't seem to know an awful lot about something that's supposedly a synonym for them). He's saying this in broad terms because he's just assuming it all works the same, when we have no reason to believe that's true.

 

[Pepsimanslover_69]

Occam's Razor in this case would be not assuming that two cosmologies with wildly different origins for everything somehow happen to have identical systems in place for their souls and afterlives. Like, if the magic page is to be believed, magic, souls, and lifeforce are the same, so souls only came into being when Chaos did (as Chaos is the primordial of life), but even though Chaos is strictly limited to the Greek pantheon, their creation of souls also somehow applied to the Norse pantheon as well? This is also excluding how the page also insinuates magic came before Chaos but jfc this is already enough of a clusterfuck as is so I'll save that for later

Surtr explains to us that the origin of Primordial elements doesn't matter, and indicates that they will work similarly if not identically. So one can see that they both have similar nature, and considering that life(and by extension magic and soul) are Primordial elements, they would be included.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

To add onto this, Mimir doesn't really know enough about Kratos' homeland to say with certainty that souls work the same over there. You can see that with his curiosity regarding the nature of Grecian magic (which is the same as the soul, according to the explanation page; For a guy who supposedly knows about Grecian souls, he doesn't seem to know an awful lot about something that's supposedly a synonym for them). He's saying this in broad terms because he's just assuming it all works the same, when we have no reason to believe that's true.

Mimir is from another pantheon himself, and came to the norse pantheon the same way Kratos did. He definitely is more knowledgeable than you paint him to be on how the overall verse and innerconnecting cosmologies between pantheons work. You just seem to be attempting to slander him as not being a valid source of information on the topic, which I hope isn't some grand attempt to denounce his statements on the souls altogether. His role primarily within the verse is being a legit mouthpiece.

 

[Deagonx]

I hope isn't some grand attempt to denounce his statements on the souls altogether.

Regardless of the validity of his statement, a great deal of it will change. The soul containing "luck" or having "luck" as one of it's constituent parts doesn't justify Probability Manip being given to anyone that does something soul or magic related, for instance. It's strange that it was ever characterized that way in the first place.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Mimir is from another pantheon himself, and came to the norse pantheon the same way Kratos did. He definitely is more knowledgeable than you paint him to be on how the overall verse and innerconnecting cosmologies between pantheons work. You just seem to be attempting to slander him as not being a valid source of information on the topic, which I hope isn't some grand attempt to denounce his statements on the souls altogether.

So why doesn't he know how Grecian magic works? Like, if magic is truly, genuinely the same across pantheons, then why would he need to ask Kratos about Grecian magic instead of just going "been there, seen that, brother. It's all the same no matter where you go, you know?"? I'm not trying to discredit Mimir, but I also don't think we should assume every statement he makes applies to a dead world he has never visited and clearly has little knowledge on, let alone assume that those statements are accurate.

Surtr explains to us that the origin of Primordial elements doesn't matter, and indicates that they will work similarly if not identically. So one can see that they both have similar nature, and considering that life(and by extension magic and soul) are Primordial elements, they would be included.

One can substitute for the other, yeah. I don't think that justifies them being one and the same, though. Sometimes I use olive oil as a substitute for vegetable oil when I make food, but that doesn't mean olive oil and vegetable oil are identical to one another. Greek magic being able to kickstart Ragnarok doesn't really require it to be tied to the mind, or a person's luck, or their concepts, or what have you.