Yet another Fire Emblem base form proposal.

[Miles_Romero12]

Alright, we still have problems with Fire Emblem base forms.

Roy and Lilina reference the Fire Dragon being 8-A when it is High 6-A.

All these below are 8-C

I

V

Marth and Ike reference building size dragons.

Lyn, Eliwood, Eirika, Ephraim and Hector reference busting walls and Bern generals.

Corrin claims to be 8-C by killing lots of soldiers.

Lucina and Chrom reference a possibly non-canon chapter and normal enemies, but giant ice sculptures, but this should only scale to Awakening and Fates characters.


Aka. A 8-C mess.


I propose two methods to calculate the base durability and AP of all Fire Emblem Lords, you guys tell me which one seems the most reasonable.

1.-All base forms are put at "At least Wall Level."

Destroying stone walls is a common mechanic in all Fire Emblem Games, since they are not normal walls, the at least should be apropiate.

Exept Awakening/Fates characters, who are already confirmed building Level.

2.-All Base forms are put at "Building Level"

But all the justifications should be "Able to fight building sized enemies, Normal Generals are equipped with armors who are "harder than steel""

Exept Awakening/Fates characters for reasons above.

3.-All Base Forms are "Small Town Level."

Another important mechanic in almost all Fire Emblem games is enemy units able to des


Low 7-C Base Fire Emblem

troy towns in single turns. Possible recruits that you could have gotten by visiting these towns are also lost/killed, and since those guys are comparable to all other units in every game, their durability should also be Small Town Level.

Now, i think this one is the most reasonable, because, even if it was made by burning the town down or other methods, this takes place on the timeframe of a single turn, were the characters can fight at subsonic levels..

So, two people attaccking each other at subsonic speeds shouldn´t be above 10 seconds.

Burning down or punching down a town in less than 10 seconds is still Small Town Level.

So, please tellme what you think.


This should scale to all Fire Emblem base forms and durabilities.

 

[Miles_Romero12]

bump

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Burning down a town is not the same as actually blowing up a town in one hit. Burning it down would be overtime and likely not scale to their actual stats.

I agree with all base units being "At least Wall level" (except Awakening/Fates) until we find better feats for them.

 

[Miles_Romero12]

That´s the thing, it happened in a VERY SMALL timeframe.


In the same time it would take an evil unit to take down a town, two subsonic characters fight.


So, even if it was with simple fire or any other method, it is still ONE soldier/thief/wathever doing it in at most 10 seconds.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Also, that would imply the character you could've recruited was killed, and they're usually described as a raid Town level base FE just doesn't work in my mind, also it's only a short timeframe so you don't have to watch a town burn down for 20 minutes tbh

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Also, Awakening and Fates should also scale to the other games within Awakening's universe, since they should be comparable (Shadow Dragon, Mystery of the Emblem, Gaiden, and any others that I missed, also maybe PoR and RD because of Priam)

Proof as to different universes: Dragon's Gate, Every 'continent' has it's own Fire Emblem, each being different in some way (Elibian Fire Emblem was a national treasure iirc, Archanea's was the Shield, Fates was the Omega Yato, Magvel's sacred stones, etc.)

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Also, the wall busting, which is the size of an entire tile, we'll have to find the size of each tile first, which we can't just asssume that all of your units are cramped when on adjacent tiles, when entering combat, the battle platforms (The space where each character is standing on while battling in the GBA games), would be the size of a tile, to find the size of a tile, we'll use the size of a horse, as they have space within battles to move, dodge, and attack with ease. The extra space is about half the length of a horse, which averages at 2.4 meters, so I'll say each tile is 3.6 meters, meaning the walls must be 3.6 meters thick x amount of tiles they're on (Usually just one tile) and the attack speed, being transonic, means they're busting through 3.6 meter/tile walls at Transonic speeds, and lets just say it's broken enough for battles to be able to take place, so let's just say it's 3.6 meters all around when broken since there's no height given, giving the walls a volume of 46.656

 

[Miles_Romero12]

Also, i forgot to mention one very important fact.

The bandits/evil unit, etc. Can destroy the town with wathever equipment he has. So, there is no arguing they are poisoning water/burning it down if they do not have the methods to do so with a simple axe/knife.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:JustSomeWeirdo/Fire_Emblem_Walls?useskin=oasis

I made a most likely faulty calc based off of wall busting at transonic speeds

 

[Miles_Romero12]

8-A confirmed FE? That sounds pretty darn good.

But i still stand by Low 7-C FE base forms.

I mean, most enemies are also transonic and take the same amount of time to destroy a entire town than to attack somepne else, inplying that it took them 1-2 attacks to destroy a small town.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

My calc is probably wrong though

 

[Miles_Romero12]

Well then, lets wait for input on both proposals.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I replied to Weirdo's calc and got Room level out of his values, but without screenshots to scale from that may not accurate either.

 

[Miles_Romero12]

Well, each game has its own sprite for the walls.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Building level FE seems for the best tbh, I only did a calc out of curiosity, and Small Town base FE means Anankos could've possibly been beaten by the combined party without the Omega Yato, endgame Corrin would've just made it overkill

 

[Miles_Romero12]

Well, i still support town level base FE.

Maybe anankos should be put at "at least low 7-C"? Because that is the only character who would need tl be stronge rthan average.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Anankos is already town level, town level base characters would've been able to match him, the Rainbow Sage wouldn't have needed to create the Yato (unless it's like the Master Sword and was just needed to seal Anankos, meaning a possible sequel in Fatesverse can happen.....Meanwhile I just want a prequel to Awakening where Gangrel is the protagonist during the Crusades against Plegia, or maybe even the first Exalt's story)

 

[Miles_Romero12]

That doesnt matter while compared to the calc and the feats.

Maybe we should just search for better feats for Anankos.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Well, there is an island sucked up into the psuedo black hole, if the size can be found that might help, and the fact that he made Valla that way, other than that he's featless

 

[Miles_Romero12]

At least low 7-C possibly higher should suffice.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

At least 7-C* He should be possibly Country level for destroying Valla/Ruining Valla (with no given timeframe....Like usual for FE final bosses)

 

[Miles_Romero12]

Alright then.

But i dont think the stafff will let you do ot without its own thread about it.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I'll actually be doing that thread soon

 

[Miles_Romero12]

So, is the Low 7-C argument cool enough to add to the pages?

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

FE4, bandits take multiple turns to destroy the village via flames, so this wouldn't be for every game tbh, but hey do destroy a good 2 buildings from what we see on the map

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

From the map, they seem to be comparable to a church

 

[Miles_Romero12]

So, here is another divide.

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Village


Lets calc all of these.

Holy War and Thracia 776 scale to each other, but they villages seem to be city block level to multi city block level because of the stadium in the sprite.

Parth of Radiance´s house is just large building level.

All GBA games use the safe town sprite, so Low 7-C for the GBA gang.

In Mystery of the Emblem they are Large building level but in NEW Mystery of the emblem, its a small town.

 

[Miles_Romero12]

And sadly, FE4&5 get screwed once again because of what you said.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'd go with option 2, building level. I personally think most Fire Emblem Lords in general should be rather comparible to each other; at least in their base forms. The village raiding is more implied that the various bandits destroyed the villages one building at a time as opposed to just blowing it up with one axe swing; though it was still in one turn. I'm not entirely certain where the old 8-A rating for Fire Dragon came from unless it was measured do to shear size of something. But we already covered that despite being just a regular Fire Dragon, the one faugth at the end of Fire Emblem 7 is significantly powerful compared to other dragons; reason that one is High 6-A and not Lilina and Roy's base forms. So to me, I think all baseforms should be 8-C just for consistency.

 

[Miles_Romero12]

Sorry man, but i still think Low 7-C is the most logical option.

You really cant destroy a whole town "one building at the time" in less time than two hypsersonic characters throw a couple of attacks at each other.


And we have already stated the fire dragon calcs are wrong since they are referencing it from when it was tiered at 8-A, if we scale the base forms from the updated Fire Dragon, GBA would be High 6-A at base.


So, that is why i made this thread, to fix that up for base forms.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Miles

No need to apologize, I'm just stating my opinion and being informative is all. As for comparing combat, to the village raiding, those are simply game mechanics. And considering those characters have hypersonic combat speed, it makes sense for two characters of that said speed to take a while in those said fights while at the same time having one hypersonic character destroy a few buldings, even if one by one; plus it could easily be done by burning it. And besides, what makes no sense is for a character to destroy a village with one attack when it takes a couple attack just to knock down a cracked wall. But that's besides the main point.

And I don't mean to sound rude, but I think you misread what I mentioned about the dragons. Yes, we have already covered them, and I agree 100% that Roy and Lilina are no way High 6-A without their S-rank weapons/ Sealed Sword. And I even said in that discussion that I think the 8-A rating should be removed.

And don't get me wrong, I do like the idea of having the average Fire Emblem character being Town level, I just feel like that's a little high compared to what's typically seen in the franchise. I am for option 3, it's just that option 2 sounds like the most accurate and consistent. But whatever the rest of the community thinks is fine by me.

 

[Miles_Romero12]

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I agree to remove the 8-A rating on FE6 characters.

But i will supoort the third option until the end of time, it just makes the most sense in my mind.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Town level fodder would make every feat in the history of the franchise a bit feat.

 

[Miles_Romero12]

A big feat?

Well, yeah, i guess.

But yeah, please do say if you agree with the low 7-C tier.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

BIT feat.As in no other feat in the series comes even close to town level.The biggest feat in the entire franchise not performed by god tiers is FE4 meteor which came out to high MCB..Town level fodder would be an outlier at best and faulty logic at worst.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

BIT feat.As in no other feat in the series comes even close to town level.The biggest feat in the entire franchise not performed by god tiers is FE4 meteor which came out to high MCB..Town level fodder would be an outlier at best and faulty logic at worst.

I also agree with this.

Low 7-C seems a little too high imo

 

[Miles_Romero12]

Did you two even read the thread?

It clearly explains the tier and the feats i am talking about.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Your "feat" is literally just that bandits can level villages.That's it.People wouldn't have issue with it if it wasn't massively inconsistent.Not to mention that the series consistently used the terms "raid".Not even top tier magic like bolganone reaches town level.

 

[Miles_Romero12]

>Massively Inconsistent

Are you kidding me? This entire thread not only contradicts your "argument", it is so simple, you literally just have to look at the timespan and the sprites.

Please, read the thread again.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Tell you what:I'll concede the point if you can find me a single other feat in the entire franchise that reaches this under 2 conditions 1.It can't be performed by a god tier 2.It can't be from a legendary weapon.

Doesn't matter which game you choose.You aren't gonna find anything.