Yet another Dressrosa CRT

[Damage3245]

Right, and when he has a new body it's not unreasonable to think this his new form has new capabilities compared to his base body such as having more hitting power, being able to move larger masses. Being able to merge with stone and move it in unnatural ways is a supernatural characteristic itself. His new capabilities with a massive stone body shouldn't be what we use to judge his base self.

Do you think someone like Pica, or someone on his level like Diamante or Trebol, can pick up the entire royal palace and carry it around?

 

[The_Calaca]

Yes, I think so. Because his fruit doesn't provide any special characteristic like Telekinesis. He has to fuse with the stone to do so, meaning that he can't do with his powers because that's not what they do.

 

[Damage3245]

So why is it that no other character at Pica's level has displayed this level of strength? Don't you think it is more likely that the character whose power to merge with stone and move it can only move such huge masses around because his devil fruit power allows him to do it?

Accepting this would give Pica the highest lifting strength in the verse I'm pretty sure, making him even stronger than Garp. That doesn't seem right.

 

[Eminiteable]

Doesn't Zoro have a class P feat?

 

[Damage3245]

Doesn't Zoro have a class P feat?

No, that's been rejected.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Which reminds me MHA and FT need to be downgraded for that exact reason.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Someone should give Luffy tossing Oars around a calc however, I'd imagine it would breach class G at the very least.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Fujitora has class T feats, Zou has class T feats, and Garp's feat is extremely casual. I dunno if I'd call Pica having class T lifting strength an outlier especially when Zoro can overpower Fujitora's gravity which is class T.

 

[Damage3245]

@Prince of Counters; Fujitora's feat isn't through physical lifting strength.

Zou hardly is relevant here.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Regardless it still proves said levels of lifting strength are possible in the verse and characters have overpowered said gravity.

 

[The_Calaca]

Lots of Low 7-B happened in Dressrosa. Admirals have Low 7-B feats as well. Does that mean Sai is stronger than Akainu? No? Well, this is your argument.

If Pica has Class T, Garp would scale above him.

 

[Antvasima]

My apologies Calaca. I usually agree with you, and I love One Piece, but in this particular case I think that Damage makes better sense.

 

[CinCameron20]

I'm neutral on Pica's lifting scaling to anyone. On the one hand, Pica's ability is specifically designed to manipulate stone, but on the other, it's clearly limited by his own personal power considering he has only ever manipulated so much at once, just like any other DF user.

Could go either way, but imo, it's probably best to leave it to just Pica having Class T until we see hard evidence that stronger characters have comparable feats (and anyone who directly scales. I think Zoro easily scales if he was able to lift his sword to push then slash the smaller golem's fist, since it had him pinned down--talking about when Pica knocked Zoro down onto the Flower Hill, can't remember specific chap)

 

[Damage3245]

@Cin; fair points, but regarding the Zoro feat that doesn't require him to overcome Pica's lifting strength, does it? He just needs to overcome the durability of the stone to slash through it.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Damage - I'm merely assuming that Zoro was pressed down, had to lift Pica's fist (just to move, and any distance moved would imply he had to lift the whole thing from off of him) before slashing his sword.

If I'm wrong, rip.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

Looks good to me.

 

[CinCameron20]

Either way, i'm not 100% certain how large the smaller golem is, so the mass might only result in Class G lifting if Zoro managed to scale for that.

 

[The_Calaca]

I'm done with this.

Damage, prove me that Pica's manipulating the stone with nothing but his Devil Fruit powers. No assumptions, no out of context statements, nor a stretched argument to distress the fact that Pica's DF is called Stone Assimilatio power, nor wonky fallacies like "Pica doesn't seem as strong without a golem".

Not to mention, use scans.

Every piece of evidence aims at the fact that Pica is doing every single feat of his by himself and not by the act of a Devil Fruit as his power makes him assimilate stone.

 

[Damage3245]

You say you're done with this, but you want to continue it too? That seems contradictory.

EDIT: I believe I have already responded to this thread, and with scans.

If I couldn't convince you earlier Calaca, I'm not sure how you expect me to convince you now, especially when you seem so set in your position.

 

[AstralKing7]

That was an unneeded remark tbh^

 

[The_Calaca]

That's your rebuttal?

I'm done with your picky arguments and assumptions. Do I need to be more clear for you?

 

[Antvasima]

Everybody please calm down. Take a breather if necessary, if it is needed to stay polite. I also think that it is hard to evaluate whether or not this scales to lifting strength.

 

[Damage3245]

Well said Antvasima.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not taking anybody's side here.

 

[The_Calaca]

That's okay.

I'll wait for Damage's reply, but if this goes unsolved for some time I'll go ahead and ask for more staff input to get this over with.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is a good idea.

 

[Damage3245]

Well, I'll start working on a reply but from the attitude of your posts it really sounds like you're dismissive of everything I've had to say so far, referring to them as "picky arguments and assumptions".

It's not exactly giving me the impression that you're really open to discussing it.

 

[Xulrev]

I'll say this:

If the argument is 'Pica needs to physically exert himself in a manner equivalent to how much stone he's manipulating', that's an unfounded presumption. It's absolutely more akin to TK: https://i.imgur.com/d6XNVw2.jpg

He manipulates tendrils of stone that are far away from where his true body is in the stone, there's no way he can be exerting physical effort upon the stone to move it here, and no way his body can be contorting to manipulate said tendrils (since his body's base shape is unchanged while fused with stone).

We never see him 'puppeteering' the stone whilst assimilated, we just see large masses of stone moving. There's not enough evidence to support Calaca's conclusion, in short, whereas Damage's conclusions seem much safer to bet on

 

[Damage3245]

Xulrev; I fully agree with that. I posted the scan of him creating tendrils of stone up above, and he has plenty of other showings of non-conventional manipulation of the stone that has to be the result of him actually having "stone manipulation" once he has assimiliated with it.

It takes a bigger assumption to assume he is using physical effort to push each bit of stone individually than it is to believe that once he has assimilated with the stone, that it simply falls under his control like Viola states.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Yea telekinesis is a no go. Not once do we see Pica moving stone without being assimalated. Telekinesis is nothing but fanfiction.

 

[Damage3245]

Yea telekinesis is a no go. Not once do we see Pica moving stone without being assimalated. Telekinesis is nothing but fanfiction.

Please read posts a bit more carefull. He said it was akin to telekinesis; not actually telekinesis.

Obviously Pica can only manipulate stone that he has assimilated with.

 

[Eminiteable]

If I'm not mistaken if his assimilation = to his strength and to move the assimilated stone still requires that level of strength then moving those tendrils should be no issue for Pica since in comparison to his higher end feats (if I'm not mistaken ) those tendrils are tiny and probably require less strength to manipulate.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Yea telekinesis is a no go. Not once do we see Pica moving stone without being assimalated. Telekinesis is nothing but fanfiction.

Please read posts a bit more carefull. He said it was akin to telekinesis; not actually telekinesis.
Obviously Pica can only manipulate stone that he has assimilated with.

Doesn't matter if I call a car an apple or "akin" to an apple. Still fundamentally wrong like telekinesis.

 

[Damage3245]

Doesn't matter if I call a car an apple or "akin" to an apple. Still fundamentally wrong like telekinesis.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

 

[Dr.Fix]

I dunno how that analogy could possibly confuse you. For reference feel free to read up on what telekinesis is so you know what it is not.

 

[Xulrev]

If I'm not mistaken if his assimilation = to his strength and to move the assimilated stone still requires that level of strength then moving those tendrils should be no issue for Pica since in comparison to his higher end feats (if I'm not mistaken ) those tendrils are tiny and probably require less strength to manipulate.

There's no proof of that presumption, is the thing, and what I argue.

The alternative here is arguing that Pica's base AP is equal to his maximum volume of moved stone.

If his base AP is of such a level, I must ask: why on earth would he attack with anything less than that, or even USE less stone at any given time, if his base AP is obscenely higher? He tried to hit people with a small stone hallway for crying out loud, the guy can punch down and shatter most of a town when near full-assimilation and you're telling me this make sense?

 

[Eminiteable]

His base AP = assimilated stone. That has already been accepted in previous thread if I'm not mistaken, so why you're trying to downgrade that here idk.

Pica regardless if you scale him to his max AP with stone assimilation or what you and damage are proposing woulf still be far beyond hitting people with a stone Hallway, that's just something common in fiction.

 

[Damage3245]

@Eminiteable; sorry, but that hasn't been accepted at all. You are mistaken.

 

[Antvasima]

I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.

For the record, I am currently leaning towards agreeing with Xulrev and Damage, but mean no disrespect towards Calaca or CinCameron.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Pica is a Paramecia type of DF user and his DF doesn't have any physical effects on his body unlike Luffy. I don't see why we should scale his physical strength to his stone manipulation strength if he doesn't showcase a feat that indicates they're similar.

Considering he consistently uses stone to attack people rather than his physicals, I'm in agreement with Xul and Damage. If his base = stone AP, then he wouldn't use his stones to attack as much as he does.