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Why does he have acausality in season 2 already? Also it should be limited, since you know Nora, Savitar, ... The only person who has true acausality is Reverse Flash in the negative Speed Force.
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Yet Another Arrowverse CRT....
- Thread starter ZoroNotZolo
- Start date
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- #42
It's type 1 acausality, or immunity to time paradoxes, something you could argue he technically created by going back in time and fighting himself.
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You only get type 1 if you’re shown to be unaffected by that which was not shown back in season 2 IIRC, otherwise basically every time traveling character gets acausality even when they have no powers.
You could very maybe argue he gets this for being able to create time remnants since the time remnants’ original timeline doesn’t exist anymore but that’s again just basically time travel. Even Zoom killing himself might not qualify (I forgot which zoom killed which) since that’s essentially forcing yourself to be acausal by being the cause of your own death. Granted in LoT that doesn’t work since John Constantine tried to kick his own father in the nuts and it failed. Although legends tends to contradict it’s own time travel rules every 5 episodes.
What I can definitely see is season 3 Barry getting acausality tho since he lived in flashpoint for months while having his powers and remembering everything. Although again here there is weird stuff going on since 1) Dying in the past (or getting paradoxed by being never born) is a more impactful thing than altering one’s own history as seen by Reverse Flash. 2) Barry remembered less the more times he used his powers. 3) Flashpoint isn’t your average run of the mill timeline retcon as backed up by the novels. 4) The more your time travel, the less the rules apply to you (seems like Legends took that literally lol).
You could very maybe argue he gets this for being able to create time remnants since the time remnants’ original timeline doesn’t exist anymore but that’s again just basically time travel. Even Zoom killing himself might not qualify (I forgot which zoom killed which) since that’s essentially forcing yourself to be acausal by being the cause of your own death. Granted in LoT that doesn’t work since John Constantine tried to kick his own father in the nuts and it failed. Although legends tends to contradict it’s own time travel rules every 5 episodes.
What I can definitely see is season 3 Barry getting acausality tho since he lived in flashpoint for months while having his powers and remembering everything. Although again here there is weird stuff going on since 1) Dying in the past (or getting paradoxed by being never born) is a more impactful thing than altering one’s own history as seen by Reverse Flash. 2) Barry remembered less the more times he used his powers. 3) Flashpoint isn’t your average run of the mill timeline retcon as backed up by the novels. 4) The more your time travel, the less the rules apply to you (seems like Legends took that literally lol).
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Another thing I’d like to bring up is Flash’s portal creation and dimension travel. So basically we have a few instances of speedsters dimensional traveling (the power of dimensional travel should also be on his page) and creating portals to other universes and the speed force. The problem is that there also seem to be some anti-feats unless I’m misremembering.
So right after Barry gets his tachyon-enhancement he goes to Supergirl’s earth but this is by accident and he has no control over it.
After that we could scale end of season 2 Barry to Zoom who can whip open portals on the fly (however there might be only certain points in central city where he can do that because that used to be a thing in season 2 IIRC).
Then he creates Flashpoint which is a straight up alternate timeline (the legends were hesitant on intervening since it wasn’t truly their timeline, could be contradicted by main canon tho) according to the novel so this could give Reverse Flash cross-timeline dimensional travel and maybe season 3 Barry as well since he originally wanted to fix it.
Later on Jay Garrick pulls him out of the timestream when Barry tries to completely set everything right, this gives Jay cross-universe dimensional travel.
He might have also gone to the speed force (which exists outside of the multiverse) in season 3 by his own power? I know Wally opened up a portal to the speed force with effort. (And there’s also Savitar being trapped in the speed force but somehow also being on earth, not gonna get into that)
But then in season 4 where everyone is stranded on Earth-X... (Which Reverse Flash could have accessed a few months earlier by his own powers I assume) They have to actively go looking for a portal back home instead of Barry just taking everyone home one by one, unless I missed something?
Then suddenly a few episodes later Barry freely enters and exits the Speed force which should be a better feat than merely traveling between universes...
Then in season 5 Barry Allen from the CBS show needs to put in a lot of effort to travel to earth-1 and makes the skies red and all that, this could have to do with 1) the local multiverse of 52 universes and him being outside it (I think) or 2) his universe getting nuked but I don’t see how that’s a factor since either he left before his universe collapsed and he’s outside the range of the collapse or he didn’t and he’s dead (which clearly didn’t happen).
So all in all really tricky to determine who gets what at which point but we have to discuss it nonetheless if we wanna get accurate pages.
So right after Barry gets his tachyon-enhancement he goes to Supergirl’s earth but this is by accident and he has no control over it.
After that we could scale end of season 2 Barry to Zoom who can whip open portals on the fly (however there might be only certain points in central city where he can do that because that used to be a thing in season 2 IIRC).
Then he creates Flashpoint which is a straight up alternate timeline (the legends were hesitant on intervening since it wasn’t truly their timeline, could be contradicted by main canon tho) according to the novel so this could give Reverse Flash cross-timeline dimensional travel and maybe season 3 Barry as well since he originally wanted to fix it.
Later on Jay Garrick pulls him out of the timestream when Barry tries to completely set everything right, this gives Jay cross-universe dimensional travel.
He might have also gone to the speed force (which exists outside of the multiverse) in season 3 by his own power? I know Wally opened up a portal to the speed force with effort. (And there’s also Savitar being trapped in the speed force but somehow also being on earth, not gonna get into that)
But then in season 4 where everyone is stranded on Earth-X... (Which Reverse Flash could have accessed a few months earlier by his own powers I assume) They have to actively go looking for a portal back home instead of Barry just taking everyone home one by one, unless I missed something?
Then suddenly a few episodes later Barry freely enters and exits the Speed force which should be a better feat than merely traveling between universes...
Then in season 5 Barry Allen from the CBS show needs to put in a lot of effort to travel to earth-1 and makes the skies red and all that, this could have to do with 1) the local multiverse of 52 universes and him being outside it (I think) or 2) his universe getting nuked but I don’t see how that’s a factor since either he left before his universe collapsed and he’s outside the range of the collapse or he didn’t and he’s dead (which clearly didn’t happen).
So all in all really tricky to determine who gets what at which point but we have to discuss it nonetheless if we wanna get accurate pages.
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Good lord, I never noticed how confusing this show was.
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So, it did well being a comic book show.
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I haven't started yet Lollipop.
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It gets more confusing?
...Mercy.
Please, I'm just a casual watcher.
...Mercy.
Please, I'm just a casual watcher.
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bump
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bump
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- #51
bump
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- #52
bump
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- #53
bump
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bump
More input would be greatly appreciated.
More input would be greatly appreciated.
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bump
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Maybe ask Andytrenom, ByAsura and Qawsedf if they want to comment.
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The powers look good, and the split keys are needed (took Smallville forever until we split up Superman's keys). My only real issue is a lack of proper scans for some of the abilities like Duplication. If you give me the episodes I could make a gif of them or something.
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Duplication would come from the Season 2 finale, iirc. That's when he first makes time remnants, I believe.
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Okay then. Yeah the P&A sections look good to go imo. Most I would suggest is expanding on what does with his powers.
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Can do.
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Oh, that reminds me, vibration manip goes with intangibility, since it's specifically vibrating at the frequency of air to pass phase through things.
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I can't remember whether flight was in Season 1 or 2.
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I forget which match made me confused about Flash's ability placement in the first place. 
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bump
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Isn't it already applied to the profiles?
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Looks that way. We're probably going to need to add a Season 6 key to his profile, though, since I see a section for Season 6 powers and abilities but no key for Season 6. Although it might not matter. Since we have nothing solid to calc for the Flash, it's likely going to also end up being "At Least Low 7-B, Unknown with Electricity Absorption".
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I did my best, obviously multiple powers are missing.
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It looks pretty good so far. Did we ever decide on whether Flash should have resistance to heat and cold manipulation?
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I don't think so since he ran before it took effect, when the Cold gun was design to effect the Flash.
But if others more knowledgable says otherwise, I won't contest it.
But if others more knowledgable says otherwise, I won't contest it.
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That is true, it was designed to affect the Flash. Maybe he developed a resistance post-amp since he's faster?
If not, I'm fine with him having a resistance in later seasons, since he was able to deal with Killer Frost (I kid you not) kissing him to freeze his face by vibrating and generating friction.
That was so weird to type...
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Clips for reference?
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Found it. They literally showed it in the thumbnail lol
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bump?
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bump. Just waiting on other people's takes on Flash having cold resistance.
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That seems pretty clear cut.
I already added it either way.
I already added it either way.
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Yeah cold resistance is fine
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Just remembered another one.
In Season 4, in the episode where Barry was on trial, he had to stop a nuclear meta, and while he got radiation burns, he didn't suffer any other effects for the duration of the fight.
I'd provide a clip, but YouTube is a bitch and I can't find the relevant one.
In Season 4, in the episode where Barry was on trial, he had to stop a nuclear meta, and while he got radiation burns, he didn't suffer any other effects for the duration of the fight.
I'd provide a clip, but YouTube is a bitch and I can't find the relevant one.
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Alright. Is there anything else to discuss here? I think we might have covered everything...
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Nuclear meta? I vaguely remember that. If it's even possible, maybe that could be used to upgrade Barry, but tiering and such should probably be in another CRT.
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Limited Acausality should be in season 3 since it only got added with the introduction of Savitar IIRC. Dimensional travel in season 2 post-amp should specify he has no control over it. From season 3-4 he should be able to control it though.
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