Xenoverse Tier Discussion

[Antvasima]

You can politely ask Azathoth to comment here if you wish.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Okay. I will call for him unless someone else alredy did.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I didn't. But i think one can generally argue for Multiversal Xenoverse due to aforementioned statements , but i won't argue any higher . I just want to be open minded .

 

[SSJRyu1]

Well 2-C is a good start for sure. But we have superior feats to 2-C like Beerus and Whis tanking the destruction of the entire multiverse, which is infinte from what I can tell as I outlined above. Even if you don't agree it's infininte the amount of scrolls we see alone in teh time vault is well over a thousand so that would be multiversal size instead of multi-Unviersal size, plus each time crystal, time fragment etc is also a timeline unto itself to. And each timeline does hold the 12 universes including other world etc just like in Super.

Also we do have Demigra stated to be "beyond time and space", "spatially trancendant" and "outside the flow of time", as well as having control of "all of time and all of space" So I would think this is strong proof that he is likely above 4D space time myself. If we take it literally 4 spatial dimesnions + 1 temporal one would actually even technically make him 5D. Considering guys like Beerus and Whis can casually tank the multiverse being erased, and Demigra is stated multiple times to be in control of and trancendant to space time it wouldn't be a stretch to say it is even likely he is 5D with all things considered.

I would honestly recomend 2-A since Beerus and Whis showed such power casually tanking the erasure of the infinite multiverse, or High 2-A if the statements are taken at face value for Demigra.

Are there any other things people wish to add or does this basically sum up everything you guys want said?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

In my opinion 2-A is kind of stretch and High 2-A almost impossible. At the absolute best I can see High end 2-C or perhaphs even 2-B. I'm just trying to stay safe.


We should probably wait for Azathoth though.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Well I mean there are statements for infinte timelines, and Beerus and Whis tank the erasure of said timelines, I don't see why 2-A should be a stretch, but even if infinte timelines were ignored then the vault alone holds over a thousand scrolls each with a timeline so honestly 2-B would be a low ball imo. High 2-A I would agree is more of a he might or might not be that level, depends on how his statements about him are taken.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I for one agree with Julian . Ryu... 2-A is more likely, while High 2-A is ... Uhmm... Possible. But i'd rather, for now at least Ryu, you argue for 2-C and 2-B Xenoverse. 2-A is for two statements [ Both from Xenoverse lore, so it more than likely is legitimate ] , High 2-A only has one quote from DBH [ Which may or may not be accepted ] .

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

From what I've seen, all the 2-A statements are hypothetical. It says that history can, not does. It's an infinite possibilities statement.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Hello Cal . What about 2-C or even 2-B statements ?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I have no qualms with that.

 

[Antvasima]

Azathoth is knowledgeable about Xenoverse. You should ask him to evaluate this thread and make a comment.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I already have. I will wait for his response.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I can see 2-C for Demigra and Mira, plus those who scale.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Hmmm okay thanks for the response Azzy.

Anybody wants to suggest the AP justificacion??

How about:

Demigra

Attack Potency:Multi-Universe Level(Demigra absorbed Toki-Toki whose eggs are able to create entire timelines. Stated to be the master of Time and Space which should at least include the U7 Macrocosm.


Mira

Attack Potency:Multi-Universe Level(Absorbed Toki Toki's egg which holds the time for an entire Universe and has been stated to have the power to merge The demon realm with the main Universe)

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

It appears that 4 Admins(Prom,Dark649,Cal,Azathoth) agree with 2-C. Considering that they agree is it okay if I edit the profiles accordingly??


If so ill get to it in a moment.

 

[SSJRyu1]

@Azathoth What would be the reasoning for 2-C? If we are talking effecting the entire multiverse then it is at least 2-B in size just from the amount of scrolls alone which each contain a timeline. Infinite if we take cells statement and the other infinte statement into account as literall. I believe we should at least upgrade them to 2-B since Berus and Whis tank the destruction of the entire multiverse, Demigra can effect all of it and warp all of it etc.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well the real cal Howard has kind of disproven the 2-A thing. And remember that 2-C is a low ball considering that we dont know the exact number or if there are more than 1000 of them or even if Demigra can affect every one of them.

Demigra can at least warp a few of them though considering that he was able to move villains from one timeline to another via his wormholes so theres that.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Well it is stated that you eventually lose track of the proper timeline, so that implies that the timelines already exist otherwise there would only be one and you wouldn't lose track of it. As well Trunks states in manga that many possible outcomes are made when any tiny change happens all at once, so they would all be made simoltainiously as opposed to there being possible ones that never were made. Also it is stated there are endless worlds/timelines by Cell. So I disagree that he disproved that there are infnite timelines.


Also we know for sure that Beerus and Whis tanked all timelines being erased, and Demigra is directly stated to have warped time, the universe, all history and everything, so we do actually have direct proof of the entire multiverse being tanked and effected. We do know that each scroll holds a timeline, which each has the 12 unvierses, otehr world for each etc, so we know for sure tehre are over 1000 timelines as tehre are over 1000 scrolls. Also every PQ for every player is a time fragement and results in it's wn history so theres that to. So I stand by anything lower than 2-B would be downplay.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well like Cal said 2-A its extremely hypothetical considering that it is stated that it might be possible for Infinite timelines to exist but that doesnt mean that they do exist.


A case could be made for 2-B though i can agree with that. However at the moment it has been decided that 2-C is the best way to go around it so until it is decided we will use 2-B it will stay at 2-C.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I dont see how its hypothetical though, Cals argument is that it says inifnte timelines can exist so tehy might not, but they also say you eventually lose track of the correct one, thus they already do exist if you can lose track of them. Also Cell already said there are endless timelines to.

But as for 2-C I can't see how surviving the multiverse being erased could be lower than 2-B, which Beerus and Whis casually did. And in X2 it is confirmed Demigra warped everything, past just the universe etc, we even see his power in other timelines like GT one, Broly one etc. We can see there are more than 1000 scrolls in teh time vault thus we know that means there are over 1000 tiemlines, each with other world, 12 unvierses etc, so logically the lowest we could give them is 2-B even if we don't use infinte timelines statement.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

The characters are probably 2-B i agree with that. However we should wait until confirmation from the staff but until then we will use 2-C.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Well Azathoth should be getting back to us here, or some other staff soon I would hope, since he basially just said hes OK with 2-C but didn't elaborate on reasoning etc. I would say realistically they are minimum 2-B for sure, likely 2-A, and possibly High 2-A via statements.

 

[Ryukama]

I'm fine with Demigra and those who scale to him being rated based upon whatever size is agreed upon for the cosmology.

That one line does seem to be a pretty blatant infinite timelines statement, however I'll leave it up to others to decide whether or not to use it.

the vault alone holds over a thousand scrolls each with a timeline

Do you have a source for this?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I'm pretty sure there was once a thread about making Chronoa 2-A but only with prep. I'm pretty sure the same could be said about Demigra.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Being completely honest, DB having infinite timelines is contradictory in itself. Because of the fact that they create new timelines via time traveling. You can't create a new timeline if there's infinite.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well Cal might have a point.

 

[Ryukama]

How would adding an additional timeline on top of the already infinite prove that there aren't infinite?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

An infinite amount of timelines means that said timeline is already there. Kinda how infinity works. If it were countless, sure. But not infinite.

 

[Ryukama]

Infinite timelines = literally every single possibility.

Like Xcano once said "Infinite =/= Infinite possibilities. If I make a factory that will produce an infinite number of cubes none of those will be spheres, but they'll all be cubes. Maybe there will be some universes where the cubes are red and some where they're blue, but it's always gonna be a cube."

So it is possible that there would still remain a timeline to be made that differs than the rest of them. And why can't duplicate timelines occur? Especially under this notion that everything possible becomes a timeline?

But regardless there is still really no reason why a cosmology that is established as having infinite timelines suddenly doesn't just because a character is able to create one additional timeline on top of that.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I can see 2-C for Demigra and Mira, plus those who scale.

My reason for this is two things.

The first is that Mira fusing two space-time continuums should likely be rated as 2-C instead of Low 2-C.

The other is that Demigra warped and controlled multiple timelines at once, and should be far superior to Mira, who only had the power of a single egg instead of Toki Toki itself.

The multiverse itself is probably 2-B, which would become Demigra's prep rating. The reason this shouldn't scale to normal Demigra has been discussed in multiple threads in the past. After absorbing Toki Toki, he completely warps the Time Nest, and begins to alter all of existence. However, this is not instant. He cannot instantly erase the multiverse and replace it with his own history, despite now controlling the Time Nest. The Future Warrior was able to stop him in the first place because Toki Toki sent him back to before he was incapacitated, and thus he could actually beat Demigra before his plan reached fruition.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

All right how about this:


Demigra:

Attack Potency:Multi-Universe Level (Absorbed Toki Toki whose eggs can hatch into entire timelines. Was stated to be the master of time and space which should include at least Universe 7's Macrocosm) Multiverse Level with Preparation (Was going to create his own Timeline after destroying previous ones via the Time Vault)

Anyone who scales to Demigra would only be 2-C and the rest of his stats would also be 2-C.

Edit:Got practically ninja'd by Azzy.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Julian

I am fine with that, but would like to know what others think.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@Azathoth

Okay let's wait for the rest.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Ryu. Problem is, the infinite statement falls under infinite possibilities.

Regardless, Azzy's here.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

What do you guys think of Azzy's suggestion @Cal and @Ryukama??

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Like I said, I have no qualms with 2-C and 2-B. In fact, I support it.

 

[Ryukama]

@Ryu. Problem is, the infinite statement falls under infinite possibilities.
Regardless, Azzy's here.

And yet nothing is actually addressed. The same "there can't be infinite timelines because someone made a timeline" which I'm sorry but I still don't get the reasoning of. On top of the fact that again "infinite timelines"/"infinite possibilities" does not equal literally any possibility ever and there can still be potentially new timeline possibilities to occur. As well as there being no reason why a duplicate timeline can't exist. Especially under your notion that anything ever can become a timeline.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Like the other Ryu said, the infinite timelines is certainly implied, and the fact you lose track of them further implies they already exist, also Trunks confirms in manga that many variations are made upon any tiny change, as opposed to possible ones not coming to being, and Cell also backs this up to saying there are endless timelines, and there is no reason it would be unlikely or impossible.

But if we don't use that we see in the time nest that there are hundreds of cages going up the entire wall on all sides to the ceiling, with dozens of scrolls at least in each, with each containing a timeline that has the 12 universes, other worlds etc. So that alone is over 1000 space time continuums. Also each PQ for each player in the hub, which have separate PQ's numbering over 100 each, holds it's own history as a time fragment which would also be reasoning for 2-B size.

http://imgur.com/a/hfAFP

http://imgur.com/a/wiKma

As for Demigra, even if we say he didn't effect the whole multiverse at once, which is stated he did effect all of it in general at least, Beerus and Whis directly tank the erasure of the entire multiverse unharmed while in their own timeline, so they would scale the gods of the series to the 2-B or 2-A tier anyway I would think since the patroller can even hurt Whis in training and Beerus is supposed to be at least somewhat comparable to guys like patroller, Mira demigra etc to.

So I would recommend either 2-B or 2-A.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

So should Demigra's prep stat be rated as "At least 2-B possibly 2-A" based on the infinite timeline statement?? Remember that no other character will scale from this and it won't be combat applicable basically.