Xenoverse Tier Discussion

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

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Azathoth . Mira created an endless amount of timelines by creating countless time paradoxes [which creates a timeline by Chronoa and Trunk's words], which they said was damaging the Time Vault. Since this was done at the same time, it technically tanked a 2-B attack .

Even if you believe i am a F***** butthole sprouting bull**** [ You probably don't, that was all self-directed at me To Be Completely Honest ] , Mira did in fact create an endless number of timelines via what he accomplished. We already evaluated the fact that Mira can't be stronger than when he was Final Form Mira, which in turn cannot be stronger than Demigra

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Azathoth . Mira created an endless amount of timelines by creating countless time paradoxes [which creates a timeline by Chronoa and Trunk's words], which they said was damaging the Time Vault. Since this was done at the same time, it technically tanked a 2-B attack .

That's not how it works. Mira creating paradoxes was damaging the Time Vault because it screws up timelines and time itself. It's not a multiversal attack.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well the reason I posted Seed's post was for the justification for Demigra's 2-B with prep key.

I kinda have to agree with Azzy on this one though. I still think the Xenoverse Multiverse is at least 2-B sized though.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yes, it's definitely at least 2-B in size.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Just a simple question . So how do we handle the statements of Beerus being able to destroy everything ? Or did you already go through that ?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It's almost certainly an accurate statement, since we see after the battle that he can access the Time Nest on his own, meaning he can reach any timeline. However, this does not indicate Beerus destroying everything all at once, nor that he does this a way other than destroying the Time Vault

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

It really does not matter since Xenoverse Beerus is basically 2-C via scaling from Demigra and the Future Warrior.

I dont think there is anything left to discuss though.

 

[Dark649]

Yes, Xenoverse Beerus is much stronger then his normal canon counterpart.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well considering that everything has been discussed perhaphs it is time to close this thread and move on to the DBS revisions once more.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we still need a footnote explanation in the Demigra page, and to possibly adjust his statistics to "At least 2-B with preparations".

 

[SSJRyu1]

@Azathoth I have an issue with your claim that Beerus is obliuvious tto the threat of multiversal erasure. He knew that demigra could erase the time nest and all timelines, yet went back to his timeline to sleep, and he was even willing to do it himself as well before letting future warrior have a crack at it showing it would not have erased him.

Furthermore Whis was watching the entire time including in the first outcome, he knew it was going to happen and did not stop it, thus we know he was completely unafraid of the erasure and saw no need to act even when it was succesful. Unless you wanna say he was fine with being erased logically he and Beerus tanked it.

Finally you assume they don't remember the first set of events, when it is specifically shown that even kai of time remembers the events, as they are recorded into the history in the time vault which is done by her. So there is actually proof of those who saw it remembering the events, and no proof they don't, yet Whis still considers it no big deal.

So clearly Whis has no fear of erasure, as does beerus, from demigra or Beerus himself. Clearly the ones who saw it like kai of time and others of that stature logically remember the original events, and logically unless you want to claim Beerus and Whis didn't care if they were erased, they were in no trouble from the erasure at any time, first or second outcome, as they saw no need to intervene and still saw it as no big deal, and Whis watched the entire thing so claiming ignorance from them is not viable.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Again, you need actual proof of this.

Show that the characters watched the multiverse get erased.

Show that Beerus, a character who has repeatedly shown to not have a massive amount of care for his own wellbeing, is confident he could tank the erasure of the multiverse and not just in the fact he could beat Demigra.

Show that characters like Goku, who were there when the multiverse was initially being erased, remember these events that never happened, even from the perspective of the Time Nest.

If we are going to claim these are things that should be very direct and obvious, there should not be such a problem with providing more direct evidence.

 

[Antvasima]

I still think that Azathoth makes sense.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Whis states he watched all of the events and they were nothing special as I showed. even if you argue he doesn't remember the first events he was watching them at that time and saw no need to intervene even at the point of erasure.

Also You argued he did not remember the first events so they are not part of that statement, and I countered that with the fact kai of time recorded the events in the time vault and they are still there after, thus she knew it, so logically those who saw it would to. Unless you have proof that Whis is below kai of time etc and would not recall it while she did.

Beerus does have a massive amount of care. He fears being erased by zeno. He may be ignorant sometimes, but in this case he knew full well of the stakes ahead of time and was even willing to casue the erasure himself thus logically he wouldn't have been killed if it occurs if he is uncaring if it happens. Whis to, he and the angels do not want to be erased and are happy they won't be by Zeno, yet he even watching the erasure happen directly the first time does not intervene even at the point of erasure when he could have any time. Logically he could tank it since he does not have a death wish.

There is nothing saying they don't remember them. They do remember demigra, however kai of time specifically records all the events into the time vault and they are there after for you to review, so she does show they remember them.

It takes a little thought but when you think about it logically by there actions and statements beerus and whis were never in danger from multiversal erasure whether by Demigra or themselves for reasons above, and unless you assume whis and beerus sat there watching it while being erased they logically tanked the first outcome.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"Whis states he watched all of the events and they were nothing special as I showed. even if you argue he doesn't remember the first events he was watching them at that time and saw no need to intervene even at the point of erasure."

Again, these events never happened. Nobody but the FW experienced them after they were sent back.

"I countered that with the fact kai of time recorded the events in the time vault and they are still there after, thus she knew it, so logically those who saw it would to."

Again, proof she recorded the events that never happened and not the one that ended up happening?

"Beerus does have a massive amount of care."

He has been willing to be completely destroyed, along with the rest of the universe, for the sake of either a petty argument or relieving boredom.

"thus logically he wouldn't have been killed if it occurs if he is uncaring if it happens"

This is the exact same as his attitude towards destroying the universe, which he also wouldn't survive.

"they won't be by Zeno"

A character who did not exist nor factor into the events of this game when it came out, or in later updates.

"There is nothing saying they don't remember them."

If something never happened, even from the perspective of the realm that records the rest of the multiverse's time, you must show that they actually remember these events. You cannot assume they do.

"unless you assume whis and beerus sat there watching it while being erased they logically tanked the first outcome."

Firstly, as stated above, Beerus has the same attitude towards dying to the universe being destroyed. Second, Whis is clearly quite familiar with Toki Toki, who explicitly comes up to him after these events, and almost certainly realized there was no actual danger, since Toki Toki just undid everything bad Demigra caused, even while absorbed.

 

[Antvasima]

This is starting to get repetitive. Perhaps it would be best if you drop this issue SSJRyu1.

 

[SSJRyu1]

1. Your ignoring the point. They do remember the origonal events first off as I showed with kai of time recording the events afterward as proof. Nthing suggests tehy forgot directly And even if they didn't remember, Whis was watching at that time and did not see it as an issue when the erasure was succesful.


2. I did show proof. The entire demon god saga is recorded by chrona after the fact in the time vault, you can watch the events, have a synopsis, can replay it etc.

https://imgur.com/a/0qgCu


3. Thats not true. He was pissed at Champa, but nowhere did it say he or Champa would die, just the universe. Also he did not plan to lose I would imagine. He also stops the battle when he is reminded it would escalate by whis. He legit is terrified of dying at the hands of Zeno, yet is willing to casue multiversal erasure himself, which would erase the time vault as part of it as well as confirmed when it is said that diemsnion of time would be erased if he fought there, adn the fact kai of time included the residents of the city and time vault in the effects of the erasure if it were attacked. ALso he literally went to his timeline to sleep with Demigra an immenent threat. He certainly cares about living and has no fear of the erasure fo the multiverse.

4. Actually Zeno is mentioned in X2 which is a direct sequel to X1 even referencing the events. He always existed. And in fact X1 will be repackaged with X2 in the switch again. Also champa did not exist when X1 was made so your argument would be moot by your logic.

5. I did show above, chronoa recordeds it after and you can review the entire saga, all cutscenes etc. Look and see it says demon god demigra saga. I dont have time to pull up the specific cutscene and record it now on my PS4 but I guarantee you look it up or if you ahve played the game you know its in the time vault. And if you dont believe me ill pull up teh specific cutscene tommorow and record me accessing it post game fromt eh time vault scrolls.

6. Not quite, Beerus fears erasure as seen with zeno, champa he never intended to lose or die and did stop, but he isnt the star player here. You assume now that Whis is psychically linked to toki toki and that he knew what is on his mind to and that the events would occur like that? That is never hinted. ALso he still wouldn't let himself be erased anyway. Fact is Whis saw no danger in either possible outcome and both himand Beerus do not fear the erasure of teh mutliverse at all, even beuing willign to cause it, well both fear death themselves and Whis knew of the situation in real time the entire time and chronoa and such recall teh past events.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

1. Again. It is not about the events with Demigra being recorded. It is about the idea that the erasure itself is recorded, despite taking place outside even the time nest.

2. Same point as above.

3. Elder Kai said Nobody, including Beerus, would survive if the universe was destroyed. There is no reason to assume this would only apply with Goku vs Beerus and not Beerus vs Champa.

4. Xenoverse 2, not 1. The entire point is that the character did not exist when this story took place, and thus is not being factored into it when it's being written.

5. See 1&2.

6. "Psychically linked to Toki Toki" What? I said he's familiar with it, since Toki Toki clearly knows Whis.

Again, this is the same arguments over and over. There's a very simple way to show that Beerus and Whis scale to this. Either show them tanking it and being present in the void afterwards, or even just a statement that says they survived it. That's it. No need for anything else. If that doesn't exist, we're not going to assume they did.

 

[SSJRyu1]

1. THe erasure is recorded by kai of time post end game thus she obviously must remember them if she recorded them after the fact. All the events are. You can literally watch every cutscene and event that happened your entire game in the time vault from the scrolls kai of time recorded.


2. See above, the origional event is also there to rewatch and review as well as the second outcome.


3. Elder kai was wrong, and Beerus knew he could nulify it if nothing else. ALso by your logic super did not even apply at the time so that statement did not either. By default one assumes a being wants to live anyway unless tehre is some extreme proof otherwise. Zeno just solidifies any doubt. Besides X1 clearly uses the events of super confirmed in X2 so it can be retroactively added like we did for this entire set of Xenoverse profiles.


4. By your logic your points about him being willing to die are moot as well as they did not exist yet. Also we get the info later on that Zeno does exist, and there is no proof Beerus or WHis wants to die.


5. See my 1 and 2, it does record all the envets including the first outcome, you can literally rewatch the cutcene with the first outcome to from the time vault scrolls post game.


6. You said Whis didn't intervene despite watching the events in real time and being able to stop them in an instant in the first outcome becosue he knew toki toki would restore him from being erased. There is nothing supporting that and he would never just let himself be erased anyway. Unless your claiming Whis and Beerus want to die and just let it happen knowign it was happening, they logically survived the erasure the first time since Whis was watching the entire thing and chose not to intervene. Then the fact kai of time shows they remember the events proves Whis would be referign to both possible events even further in his confirming statmetn of it not being a big deal at all. Also the fact Beerus and Whis didnt care if Beerus casued the erasure further shwos it is of no threat.


So there is proof kai of time etc remember the events which would logcially extend to Whis etc, there is proof beerus and whis have no fear of the erasure by demigra or themselves, there is proof that Whis and Beerus tanked the erasure to, since they do remember the first event and he considers it nothing.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"there is proof that Whis and Beerus tanked the erasure to"

If there is, it wasn't posted in the comment, because these are the exact same points that bring us around in the exact same circle.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Perhaps we should close this thread.

However, I would still appreciate a footnote explanation in Demigra's page.

 

[SSJRyu1]

It was posted. The fact Whis states the events were meaningless to him and Beerus, combined with the fact kai of time remembers the origional erasure shows Whis and others logically recall it to, and if he considers the events nothing special including the first outcome, then that would mean he was obviously not erased, as being erased is a big deal.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It was posted. The fact Whis states the events were meaningless to him and Beerus, combined with the fact kai of time remembers the origional erasure shows Whis and others logically recall it to, and if he considers the events nothing special including the first outcome, then that would mean he was obviously not erased, as being erased is a big deal.

I'm asking you for proof, not headcanon. Also "combined with the fact kai of time remembers the origional erasure" is false. She never demonstrates this. You are trying to use the ability to replay the final mission, a mission that even has a scroll not made by SKoT in fact, as proof that everyone remembers this event, despite that it never happened to them.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I did give proof, it is fact whis said the events were nothing. It is fact kai of time records the history down for all the time vault. It is fact the history of the events of the first outcome are written in the time vault post game where you can view them. It is fact that Whis watched the entire thing. So unless you wanna claim Whis < Kai of time he would recall it and his statement holds true for the first outcome as well.

Toki Toki does not make scrolls, it makes eggs, any scroll that was recorded is by kai of time as that is her job.

Not to mention Whis does not intervene at all even the first time when the multiverse is erased despite watching the events in real time, Beerus and Whis were not afraid to destroy the multiverse themselves and be caught in it origionally, and they have no fear of leting Demigra running amock either.


So unless you have actual proof they want to die it simply is illogical to assume they allowed themselves to be erased by the attack as they knew full well of it, or that they were willing to cause the erasure themselves even.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"I did give proof, it is fact whis said the events were nothing."

Again, not proof.

"It is fact kai of time records the history down for all the time vault."

Again, she doesn't. The scroll that sends the FW back isn't even recorded by her, because she's erased and it's the history of the Time Nest.

"It is fact the history of the events of the first outcome are written in the time vault post game where you can view them."

Again, out of context, and the scroll was not written or recorded by her. Assuming it was because you're allowed to play it is an abuse of game mechanics to say that an erased SKoT recorded her own history while erased despite both being inside the Time Nest's time and these events not happening to her.

"It is fact that Whis watched the entire thing."

Again, Whis watched the battle, not events that never happened.

None of this is actual proof Beerus and Whis tanked the multiverse being erased, which is what you're trying to prove. This is pointless.