Xenoverse Tier Discussion

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Beerus and Whis directly tank the erasure of the entire multiverse unharmed while in their own timeline

When?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@Azzy

Yeah I don't think we should give them 2-A durability unless concrete evidence is given either.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The quote is "History can take an infinite amount of turns," ca bring the operative word. Meaning it's a matter of possibility. As you said, infinite=\=infinite possibilities. And the fact that timelines are stated to be created from the smallest things explains what I mean.

 

[Ryukama]

1. Just because there is an infinite number of something doesn't mean that an additional unit cannot be added. It's just going to still be infinite. Yet it won't suddenly become finite cause you added one to it.

2. And as we say "Infinite timelines = infinite possibilities" is not necessarily true. So the idea "Oh but why did this timeline for a possibility get created if that timeline should have already existed" isn't inherently the case.

3. Even then, what reason is there that a duplicate timeline of the exact same thing can't occur? Especially within fiction. And especially under this notion that literally anything ever is made a timeline, then it's reasonable that there are infinite clones of the same thing.

Doubt the statement for any other plethora of reasons you want. But "infinite timelines are debunked because someone made a timeline" is still not a good reason in my opinion.

 

[SSJRyu1]

In the battle with Demigra at first Demigra succeeds in destroying the time vault. At this point right before that the pattroler is moved by TOki TOki to another place outside the vault/multiverse and witnesses it in a scroll showing the events of the time nest. However beerus and Whis are still in their timeline, Beerus had gone to take a nap knowing full well Demigra's plans, and Whis watched the entire thing unfold. Later Whis says the battle wasn't even worth waking Beerus up for and that the patroller beat Demigra, so we know Whis and Beerus were unaffected and unafraid of the entire erasure despite watching the entire series of events take place and being inside their timeline during it.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

snip

That's the problem, though. None of that actually happened, since Toki Toki took the future warrior back to before they were incapacitated. Beerus and Whis never would have experienced this, if we are to assume everything was gone, at that point.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well I for one think that 2-A with preparation time seems to make sense. However nothing more than that.

 

[SSJRyu1]

The only issue with that is that when it originally occurred beerus and Whis still saw it as no threat, and did tank it, even if time were reversed they exist outside its flow and remember changes to time and space and alternate timelines, time nest etc, so Whis stating it was nothing special and not even worth being awake for means all events including the first outcome still was nothing to them. Also notice how they never interfere either and let the patroller fight the battle the entire time, even when multiversal erasure is immanent despite again watching the whole thing and being able to get there in an instant.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Okay considering that we have the Infinite Timeline statements then perhaps Demigra's prep tier could be a full "2-A".

If you guys want i can start making the edits if you guys agree with the proposed ratings.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That doesn't make any sense. Beerus and Whis are no farther outside the regular flow of time than the Time Nest, and it was reversed just fine. Nothing suggests they tanked the destruction of the multiverse. Beerus wasn't worried because he was confident he could just destroy Demigra if need be, but was also confident that the future warrior would finish him off in his place, which is what ended up happening.

 

[SSJRyu1]

how does it not make sense? Beerus and Whis clearly remember all the events of changes to history and alternate timelines and the time vault. They even can see what happens in the crack of time etc. Kai of time even mentions how Demigra warped all of the multiverse and such so even she remembers. Whis directly states the events were of no consequence, Beerus was even willing to cause the erasure himself till they decided to let the pattroler test his hand at Demigra, even at the point of erasure they did not step in the first time, if it would erase them there is no way Whis would have let it happen. Sorry dude but it is clear Whis is aware of the events the entire time and sees no need to step in even at the erasure, saying after it was no big deal.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

So as to recap:

1.Demigra

Attack Potency:Multi-Universe Level (Absorbed Toki-Toki whose eggs can hatch into entire timelines. Was stated to have become the Master of Time and Space which would include at the very least Universe 7's Macrocosm) Multiverse Level+ with Preparation (Was going to create his own Timeline after destroying all previous ones via the Time Vault of which it was stated to be an Infinite number of.)

2.Mira


Attack Potency:Multi-Universe Level (Absorbed Toki-Toki's egg which would hatch into an entire timeline and was stated to have the power to merge the Demon Realm with the mortal realm)


3.Future Warrior

Attack Potency:Multi-Universe Level (Same reasoning via scaling from Demigra).

4.Future Warrior (XV2)

Attack Potency:Multi-Universe Level (Same reasoning via scaling from Mira)


So what do you guys think of these rating???

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"Beerus and Whis clearly remember all the events of changes to history and alternate timelines and the time vault."

And where does it show they remember everything being erased? Because that is the thing I don't see evidence of in the things posted.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think that Azathoth makes sense. 2-C is fine, not things above it.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Demigra's 2-A status isn't combat aplicable by the way. But yeah I agree 2-C is fine to be honest.

 

[Ryukama]

I believe other Ryu's point is that Beerus and Whis tanked the destruction of the multiverse, even if the destruction was undone.

Whether or not this is the case I'm unsure since I haven't played the game. However I believe this is what he's trying to say.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Ryu (Genus: kama)

Yeah, I know. I was asking where it's shown they tanked this, since I don't recall anything suggesting this.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Kai of time mentions how Demigra warped not just the universe but all history and everything. He only does this scale at that point. Unless we want to say he warped the entire multiverse without the need of the time vault.

http://imgur.com/lGbUFVC

As for beerus and Whis they show knowledge of other timelines, the time nest, toki toki, demigra etc and Whis states none of the events were of consicquence, despite the fact the multiverse was in danger, and if the argument is he didn't act since he knew that the pattroler would come from a higher dimension then he would be aware of it and the past events to so no matter how you slice it the original events were known to him and irrelivent to him.

Also as stated Whis and beerus were willing to cause the erasure themselves and did not step in even when the erasure occurred even though they could have easily, Whis has gotten ot eh time nest in an instant before. He watched the entire battle so knew what was going on. If it would have erased him and Beerus logically he would have stepped in.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well the thing is that as far as I'm aware Toki-Toki saved the Future Warrior before the destruction of the Multiverse because if the timeline was really destroyed then there would be no point in Time to return too.

 

[SSJRyu1]

He saved the future warrior before it happened, but then the warrior watches as the vault is completely destroyed and the scroll is blank. Then they have him somehow go back to fight Demigra with a blank scroll, which unless that scroll was a place higher than the time nest wouldn't make sense, but I digress. Either way though we see the first outcome as warrior escapes and time nest is destroyed. Whis is watching the whole time and does nothing even though he could destroy Demigra, and we know he can get there in an instant to. He even says the events were not worth being awake for later. So we know he and Beerus were unafraid to tank the attack and would have in the first outcome, otherwise if they could not logically Whis would not allow them to be erased.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I don't know...i feel that at this point we are entering into a point of too much speculation and circumstancial evidence. I'm my opinion I feel like 2-C is fine and 2-A via Prep is factual because it is supported.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well considering that most people have accepted 2-C as the upgraded tier and that Demigra have a 2-A prep key then I request permission to update their stats.

I will use the justificacion that has been given on this thread and the one I have written above.

These are the profiles I need unlocked:


Demigra

Future Warrior

Future Warrior (XV2)

Mira

 

[Antvasima]

I am personally fine with Azathoth's and Julian's suggestions.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Okay. If you want you can unlock those pages for a moment and I can make the updates. I can tell you here when I'm done.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Azathoth doesn't agree with the multiverse being 2-A, I think.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@Antvasima those pages I linked to in my above post.


@Matthew then perhaps "At least 2-B likely 2-A via preparation time" might be better. Lets see his final answer. I will write 2-A for now.

 

[Antvasima]

So as to recap:

1.Demigra

Attack Potency:Multi-Universe Level (Absorbed Toki-Toki whose eggs can hatch into entire timelines. Was stated to have become the Master of Time and Space which would include at the very least Universe 7's Macrocosm) Multiverse Level+ with Preparation (Was going to create his own Timeline after destroying all previous ones via the Time Vault of which it was stated to be an Infinite number of.)

2.Mira

Attack Potency:Multi-Universe Level (Absorbed Toki-Toki's egg which would hatch into an entire timeline and was stated to have the power to merge the Demon Realm with the mortal realm)

3.Future Warrior

Attack Potency:Multi-Universe Level (Same reasoning via scaling from Demigra).

4.Future Warrior (XV2)

Attack Potency:Multi-Universe Level (Same reasoning via scaling from Mira)

So what do you guys think of these rating???

Here are Julian's suggestions.

 

[Antvasima]

We should probably wait for Azathoth to reply though. I think that he wanted a 2-B with preparations rating.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

My reason for this is two things.

The multiverse itself is probably 2-B, which would become Demigra's prep rating. The reason this shouldn't scale to normal Demigra has been discussed in multiple threads in the past. After absorbing Toki Toki, he completely warps the Time Nest, and begins to alter all of existence. However, this is not instant. He cannot instantly erase the multiverse and replace it with his own history, despite now controlling the Time Nest.

He said this in one of his earlier comments agreeing with a 2-B Multiverse.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I actually found something interesting for further proof that Beerus and Whis survived and remember the first destruction of the multiverse. The time vault holds a record of all history that supreme kai of time makes, and you can review and replay the events for that first outcome. So it is known by the parties outside of the player/toki toki as a record of it was made and kept.


https://imgur.com/a/c0Dkq


THis, plus the fact Whis recals that the events were of no concern, never saw a need ot interfere both in the actual sucesful erasure or second time and the fact he and Beerus did not care if they were to erase the multiverse and everybody there certainly back up with multiple points that they can and did tank the erasure of the multiverse.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I still think we should go with a 2-C regular rating for the characters since it is more solidified than 2-A. We are moving on too much speculation at this point.


It is imperative that we get this out of the way so we can move on to the Dragon Ball Super main revisions. You can participate in that thread too if you want @SSJRyu1.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Well Beerus and Whis tank the multiverse being destroyed in the first outcome, are willing to casue it themselves showign it is no big deal to them, see no need to stop it from happening even though they could at any time, even when it was erased, and we know that there is a record of the events to made by kai of time so we know that the cast remember it all. Logically they would be minimum of 2-B for this.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I will start the revision with the proposed changes. If an admin or Bureocrat wants to change statistics do it at your desire but i will take care of the AP justificacion.

@Antvasima if you want you can unlock the pages. If Azathoth decides on a 2-A Multiverse then the profile can be fixed later.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will unlock the pages then.

 

[Joseph619]

I will start the revision with the proposed changes. If an admin or Bureocrat wants to change statistics do it at your desire but i will take care of the AP justificacion.
@Antvasima if you want you can unlock the pages. If Azathoth decides on a 2-A Multiverse then the profile can be fixed later.

Please link the scans on the page for reference

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Okay I will tell you when I'm finished.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

The profiles have been edited. They can be locked now. I will be going to sleep now so you guys can do whatever you want with the profiles.

 

[Ryukama]

Based on what other Ryu has said I personally think it's reasonable for Xenoverse Beerus and Whis to be 2-B/2-A. However who would this scale to?

 

[Joseph619]

The profiles have been edited. They can be locked now.

Did you put the scans for reference?

 

[SSJRyu1]

Mkay, so were just going to ignore that Beerus and Whis tanked the multiverse being destroyed in the first scenario with Demigra, were willing to cause it themselves while in the time nest showing they could tank it as they had no fear of that either, did not bother to intervene or even wake Beerus up showing it was not a threat to them when it was about to happen or did happen in one case with Whis watching the whole thing, and even state all the events were not even worth staying awake for, showing again that multiveral destruction is no threat to them, and we know they recall it all since it is referenced but also the entire thing is recorded in the time vault.

I mean it's your call what you do but that is alot of proof showing they can tank the multiversal erasure, both implied by there statements and actions, and by an actual feat.