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Wyzen and Asura Downgrade

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Kepekley23

Kepekley23

VS Battles
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Currently, Wyzen, Asura and the rest of the Seven Deities are rated as 5-A. Why? Due to Wyzen being bigger than Gaia and his finger poke of doom wielding Large-Planet level energy.

Except that is not true at all.

First of all, the calc suggesting Wyzen is 5-A is no longer up, and i have more than 25 contributions, so i should be able to see it had it not been deleted.

Second, Wyzen was nowhere near that big in the first place.

WyzenTipSpace


Here, we see the range of Wyzen's fingerfrom space. He could probably fit a large island on the tip of his finger, right?

No.

WyzenTrueTip


As we can see above, Wyzen's fingertip in reality is only a few times bigger than a mountain. Even if we assume the mountain is as tall as the Mauna Kea, the tallest mountain in the planet, it'd still be relatively small.

Random mountain = 170px = 10.5km

Wyzen's fingertip = 536 px = 41km

His fingertip is about 40 kilometers, the size of a small town.

Even more proof of Wyzen's size being a product of the exaggerated angle of the scene is his death:

WyzenBodyExplosion


As we can see in the circled part of the shot, Wyzen's body was at most the size of the moon, more reasonably the size of multiple continents. This isn't even his body, it's the explosion cone generated by his death, but let's ignore that for a moment and say his body was multi-continent sized. That's a solid downgrade to High 6-A, possibly 5-C.

Wyzen's finger didn't even do significant damage to the landscape, generally speaking. It definitely touched the Earth, and yet the most it did was turn the forest-sized battlefield into lava, and not even all of it, since the mountain right next to his finger was completely fine.

His finger did superheat the ground around it and create some volcanic activity, sure, but even that barely lasted a few minutes, probably less since the scene had a cut in it.

Conclusion

- Wyzen's body was at most the size of the moon.

- Wyzen's fingertip was town-sized at most.

- Wyzen's finger failed to do the massive amount of damage to the landscape it would normally have done.

- Wyzen was definitely not even close to Gaia's size.

Summary

- Asura, Wyzen, Olga, Sergei and Kalrow downgrade to High 6-A, possibly 5-C.
 
-His finger being so small is clearly due to scaling to fit in the cinematic. Same as to why the planet sized Brahmastra could fall on Earth. Can't expect perfect sizes all the time

-We don't see Wyzen in your moon screenshot.

-You keep saying High 3-A. I think you mean High 6-A.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
-His finger being so small is clearly due to scaling to fit in the cinematic. Same as to why the planet sized Brahmastra could fall on Earth. Can't expect perfect sizes all the time
-We don't see Wyzen in your moon screenshot.

-You keep saying High 3-A. I think you mean High 6-A.
Click to expand...
- The space creenshot suggests Wyzen's entire body was around that size.

- The circled part of the shot is where Wyzen's body was before it was replaced by the cone.

- Yes.
 
Kepekley23 said:
As i sai above, that's most likely an exaggerated angular shot. After Wyzen dies, the cone generated by his death is barely the size of the moon.It's just like Chakravartin being bigger than galaxies. Except he is not.
Click to expand...
I see nothing wrong with it

Why would his death scene have anything to do with his physical power?

And just saying, there's a LOT of calcs where moon busting and moon sized explosions yield 5-A results
 
well tbf he was only planing to crush asura and not the planet (I mean they are still protecting it even though the framed asura to begin with...)
 
"First of all, the calc suggesting Wyzen is 5-A is no longer up, and i have more than 25 contributions, so i should be able to see it had it not been deleted."

https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/calc-gongen-wyzen.17492/

"Second, Wyzen was nowhere near that big in the first place. Here, we see the range of Wyzen's fingerfrom space. He could probably fit a large island on the tip of his finger, right? No."

Small Country actually

"As we can see above, Wyzen's fingertip in reality is only a few times bigger than a mountain. Even if we assume the mountain is as tall as the Mauna Kea, the tallest mountain in the planet, it'd still be relatively small."

No, its the size of a small country

"His fingertip is about 40 kilometers, the size of a small town."

40 km is the size of a Large Mountai

"As we can see in the circled part of the shot, Wyzen's body was at most the size of the moon, more reasonably the size of multiple continents. This isn't even his body, it's the explosion cone generated by his death, but let's ignore that for a moment and say his body was multi-continent sized. That's a solid downgrade to High 6-A, possibly 5-C."

Why would his death scene have any correlation to his AP?

"Wyzen's finger didn't even do significant damage to the landscape, generally speaking. It definitely touched the Earth, and yet the most it did was turn the forest-sized battlefield into lava, and not even all of it, since the mountain right next to his finger was completely fine."

AoE fallacy
 
https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/calc-gongen-wyzen.17492/

No longer up.

"Small Country actually"

With large island, i meant islands like this one

"No, its the size of a small country"

The shot from Asura's perspective makes it seem a lot, lot smaller.

"40 km is the size of a Large Mountai"

I was talking about the range. Manhattan alone is about 20 km in size.

"Why would his death scene have any correlation to his AP?"

The death scene shows us he was not quite the size of the Earth like people claim, since the cone that engulfed him was barely the size of the moon to begin with.

"AoE fallacy"

Wyzen would have no problem with AoE if his finger was that big.

A finger the size of a country touching the Earth would generate a big crater. It's not an AoE argument, because;

1. Asura's Wrath characters have never demonstrated a lack of AoE. Asura casually destroys stars with his range.

2.. They are always exaggeratedly large.
 
@Weekly

"You cannot see the blog because the user has his privacy options (privacy -> can view your blog) to "None", and his blog is completely private."

Also, they weren't trying to destroy Earth, because they were farming mantra from the people. I'm not seeing any real reasons that would downgrad Wyzen however.
 
"With large island, i meant islands like this one"

Cool. Still Small Country level

"The shot from Asura's perspective makes it seem a lot, lot smaller."

Its not

"I was talking about the range. Manhattan alone is about 20 km in size."

Yeah, 40 km in range is Mountain level, look at the link i posted. 20 km in range is only City level.

"The death scene shows us he was not quite the size of the Earth like people claim, since the cone that engulfed him was barely the size of the moon to begin with."

Explosions much smaller than that have been calculated as being well into Large Planet level

"Wyzen would have no problem with AoE if his finger was that big.

A finger the size of a country touching the Earth would generate a big crater. It's not an AoE argument, because;

1. Asura's Wrath characters have never demonstrated a lack of AoE. Asura casually destroys stars with his range.

2. They are always exaggeratedly large."

So you claim its not AoE fallacy and then go into using AoE fallacy as your argument...
 
But before you do that, what do you guys think about this video?

Apparently, there's proof Chakravartin is 4-D and that he actually created the universe. I think this should be analyzed.
 
Wait, don't close the thread.

"Cool. Still Small Country level"

They are interchangeable terms.

"Its not"

Except that's not an argument at all. Every time we see something from space in the series, it's either distorted to be much larger than it actually is or not consistent with what we're shown. There are scenes where Chakravartin doesn't seem to be any larger than the Earth, and yet we know he is several times bigger than stars.

"Yeah, 40 km in range is Mountain level, look at the link i posted. 20 km in range is only City level."

New York has an area of 800 kilometers, far bigger than any mountain in the planet. And cities like Mexico City, Shanghai and Sao Paulo are all much bigger than NYC is.

"Explosions much smaller than that have been calculated as being well into Large Planet level"

It's impossible for a Multi-Continental explosion to be Large-Planet level, and only a few moon-level explosions are Large Planet level.

Also, examples? Deus is magnitudes above Wyzen, so the calc you posted doesn't apply to him.

"So you claim its not AoE fallacy and then go into using AoE fallacy as your argument..."

The AoE argument doesn't apply to Wyzen. If his finger was that big, it'd turn the entire country Asura was standing on into a molten wasteland.
 
"They are interchangeable terms."

No, Small Country and Large Island are two different things

"New York has an area of 800 kilometers, far bigger than any mountain in the planet. And cities like Mexico City, Shanghai and Sao Paulo are all much bigger than NYC is."

You were refereing to the diameter of NYC, why are you now switching to its area?

"It's impossible for a Multi-Continental explosion to be Large-Planet level, and only a few moon-level explosions are Large Planet level."

Oh really now?

"Also, examples? Deus is magnitudes above Wyzen, so the calc you posted doesn't apply to him."

It took considerable effort for Asura to kill Wyzen while he was in the same form that fought Yasha and Deus. It definitely applies to him.

"The AoE argument doesn't apply to Wyzen. If his finger were that big, it'd turn the entire country Asura was standing on into a molten wasteland."

This is the definition of AoE Falacy.
 
Alright.

As i said, i want you to evaluate this video. If true, it would be a massive upgrade for Asura and Chakravarti
 
Chackravartin own battle feats contraddicts the statements on the video, so we can close this.
 
There is reason why they are not 3-A despite these bring brought up in the past, which means they were debunked and not upgraded.
 
Dark649 said:
There is reason why they are not 3-A despite these bring brought up in the past, which means they were debunked and not upgraded.
Click to expand...
When were they debunked? I searched Chakravartin's forum post history rather thoroughly before posting that video.
 
Dark649 said:
They were 3-B and then downgraded to 4-A.
Click to expand...
That doesn't answer my question, and 3-B is Multi-Galaxy level, not Multi-Universe like the video argues. And the reason was "Chakravartin dwarfed galaxies", while the video expands on that and gives us many reasons for the upgrades.

So this deserves a thread of its own.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Chakra isnt higher than 4-A, this has been discussed before
Click to expand...
There is an enormous difference between the point of views.

The people who argued 3-B Chakravartin had no argument other than "he is the size of several galaxies", which again, has already been debunked.

The guy i linked has tons of evidence supporting Low 2-C Chakravartin. Watch the video.
 
The entire crux of that argument hinges on "world" meaning "universe". Even though that makes no sense considering the refer to the planet Gaia as "world" for pretty much the entirety of the story. He also says that existing since the begining of the universe means his age is infinite (already wrong there) and that due to this infinite age he is 4-D (in what world does having infinite age make you 4-D in power? That just makes you unfathomably old).

That video seems really assumptive and unreliable. I don't buy it personally.
 
Assaltwaffle said:
The entire crux of that argument hinges on "world" meaning "universe". Even though that makes no sense considering the refer to the planet Gaia as "world" for pretty much the entirety of the story. He also says that existing since the begining of the universe means his age is infinite (already wrong there) and that due to this infinite age he is 4-D (in what world does having infinite age make you 4-D in power? That just makes you unfathomably old).
That video seems really assumptive and unreliable. I don't buy it personally.
Click to expand...
"I will leave this world"

He already left Gaia, so what is he talking about here?
 
He came back to it in order to name Asura his heir. I just don't think that we can assume he means universe when everyone else in the series constantly uses "world" to mean the planet. If they wanted this to mean universe, they could have just had him say universe. Also we know that Chakravartin is primordial and has existed since the dawn of the universe, but he didn't make the universe itself. That would make his "I created it" line a bit odd considering he is referring to what seems to be Gaia.
 
Assaltwaffle said:
He came back to it in order to name Asura his heir. I just don't think that we can assume he means universe when everyone else in the series constantly uses "world" to mean the planet. If they wanted this to mean universe, they could have just had him say universe. Also we know that Chakravartin is primordial and has existed since the dawn of the universe, but he didn't make the universe itself. That would make his "I created it" line a bit odd considering he is referring to what seems to be Gaia.
Click to expand...
When did he go back to it again?
 
Didn't he re-enter it in his Spider form? I am not an expert on the verse, I am just trying to remember what I watched in the Cinematics. I thought he first encountered Chakaravrtin on Gaia.
 
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