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Pikaman

He/Him
6,525
5,211
It is kinda common knowledge among the WWE supporter-base that the “higher” AP rating currently applied for finishers kinda sucks lmao

It does it’s job fine in practical senses but it’s vague and not particularly accurate.


Ok, so we are prepped with the current knowledge:

  • No Chin Music scales to >> 5,367,524.97 Joules
  • No Chin Music is possibly the weakest finisher, as it belongs to a joke character who’s gimmick is being laughably weak
  • Some finishers have better records than others, but given the multi decade history of WWE, this could be argued as a drop of water in the ocean
From there, there are 3 options left in terms of finishers:

A: Scale them all to >> 5,367,524.97 Joules, making the assumption all finishers are created equal

B: Scale each remaining finisher above the No Chin Music, with the level of superiority decided by the position in the scaling chain it’s user is

C: Scale each remaining finisher to, above or below the No Chin Music through the process of creating a separate scaling chain for finishers, with the intent to analyse which finishers have the best kick-out rates, most notable opponents pinned etc. and sort them by how “protected” they are.



Granted, there wasn’t much to be done about it, or at least that’s what I thought, but apparently you can just do a multiplier based on the wiki’s AP numbers.

A tired James Ellsworth nearly one-shot AJ Styles with his finisher, No Chin Music. AJ Styles holds a 17.273828403x AP advantage over Ellsworth normally. While I’m still sceptical about this (it frankly feels too good to be true) you could then argue that finishers should have a >>17.273828403x multiplier (factoring in both the fact Ellsworth was tired having just taken a beating, and that it came just shy of one-shotting AJ) compared to their user’s other moves. And yes, all finishers would scale to this since Ellsworth is a joke character designed to be comically weak, and equivalently would also have the weakest finisher, as he is the weakest in literally everything.

That would lead to the following AP values for finishers

Supernatural Tiers: >>> 92717705.2804 Joules, or >>>0.02216006340353728 Tons of TNT (9-A, could maybe upscale to Baseline 9-A+ given how absurdly high above the figure it scales, but probably not)

God Tiers: >>92717705.2804 Joules, or >>0.02216006340353728 Tons of TNT (9-A)

Top Tiers: >>49094418.9948 Joules, or >>0.01173384775210325 Tons of TNT (9-A)

Mid Tiers: >>17273828.403 Joules, or >>0.00412854407337476 Tons of TNT (Baseline 9-A Probably)

Low Tiers: >> 5,367,524.97 Joules, or 0.00128286925669216 Tons of TNT (9-B, Baseline 9-B+ if you wanna push it)


So those are the AP numbers that we’d have with this multiplier, now time to find out if it works lol
 
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We don't accept multipliers unless explicitly stated in-verse afaik
That’s what I thought too, but I heard this was possible and just wanted to check. @Dereck03 seemed to imply it was ok to apply multipliers as such when I asked them, but they didn’t agree with finishers being listed as having higher AP anyways, as they didn’t really see it as an in-universe mechanic that strengthens moves which, y’know, it is
 
Yeah.

There has been no stated values for how strong finishers are. We just know that they're KO moves that do far more damage than normal moves.
 
That’s what I thought too, but I heard this was possible and just wanted to check. @Dereck03 seemed to imply it was ok to apply multipliers as such when I asked them, but they didn’t agree with finishers being listed as having higher AP anyways, as they didn’t really see it as an in-universe mechanic that strengthens moves which, y’know, it is
^
 
Also, the logic of “our AP numbers aren’t canon” doesn’t really make sense to me when the same argument could be used to dismantle the concept of scaling itself. Assigning our numbers to characters who haven’t actually proven them, but are logistically above those who have, is kinda our thing. It’s just scaling other finishers to the level of which the No Chin Music is superior to James’ usual calibre
 
I think you need to bump after 8-24 hours has passed
 
We don't accept multipliers unless explicitly stated in-verse afaik
 
The 17.3x gap is just way too much of an upscale for this to go through
 
Ah, well if those are the guidelines, then yes, the multiplier should go out the window.

Ok, so we are prepped with the current knowledge:

  • No Chin Music scales to >> 5,367,524.97 Joules
  • No Chin Music is possibly the weakest finisher, as it belongs to a joke character who’s gimmick is being laughably weak
  • Some finishers have better records than others, but given the multi decade history of WWE, this could be argued as a drop of water in the ocean
From there, there are 3 options left in terms of finishers:

A: Scale them all to >> 5,367,524.97 Joules, making the assumption all finishers are created equal

B: Scale each remaining finisher above the No Chin Music, with the level of superiority decided by the position in the scaling chain it’s user is

C: Scale each remaining finisher to, above or below the No Chin Music through the process of creating a separate scaling chain for finishers, with the intent to analyse which finishers have the best kick-out rates, most notable opponents pinned etc. and sort them by how “protected” they are.

I like option C the most
 
No, I hate the “higher with [insert finisher]” system with a passion. It has to go imo, it’s vague, and when we have an actual number we can attach to finishers why tf wouldn’t we use it
 
No, you can’t get an exact number, but (up/down)scaling from the No Chin Music, which itself scales above God Tier AP, is a hell of a lot better than we have now
 
Then I don't really get what exactly you're trying to suggest there, and also, as far as I know, 1.2x is the max multiplier to upscale and you can't really upscale any higher than that unless if there's evidence.
 
Then I don't really get what exactly you're trying to suggest there, and also, as far as I know, 1.2x is the max multiplier to upscale and you can't really upscale any higher than that unless if there's evidence.
There's quite clear evidence that finishers are far higher than normal moves.
 
Then I don't really get what exactly you're trying to suggest there, and also, as far as I know, 1.2x is the max multiplier to upscale and you can't really upscale any higher than that unless if there's evidence.
I’m proposing a scaling chain for finishers. Say we deem a finisher stronger than The No Chin Music hypothetically, then it’s >>> 5,367,524.97 Joules, for example.

“>” and “<“ signs are helpful when signifying a character scales above a known value at an unknown capacity
 
I’m proposing a scaling chain for finishers. Say we deem a finisher stronger than The No Chin Music hypothetically, then it’s >>> 5,367,524.97 Joules, for example.

“>” and “<“ signs are helpful when signifying a character scales above a known value at an unknown capacity
Then it's fine
 
Ok, here’s (I think) all AP based finishers we currently index, we just need to sort them all into a scaling chain. Just go for the classic Low to God Tier route?


Ataxia (Austin Theory)



ATL (Austin Theory)



Running Powerslam (Braun Strowman):



Sister Abigail (Bray Wyatt)



F5 (Brock Lesnar)



1916 (Finn Bálor)



Attitude Adjustment/AA (John Cena)



RKO (Randy Orton)



A-Town Down (Austin Theory)



W.M.D. (Big Show)



Codebreaker (Chris Jericho)



Coup De Grâce (Finn Bálor)



No Chin Music (James Ellsworth)



Punt Kick (Randy Orton)



Spear (Roman Reigns)



One Final Beat (Johnny Gargano)
 
Ok, here’s (I think) all AP based finishers we currently index, we just need to sort them all into a scaling chain. Just go for the classic Low to God Tier route?


Ataxia (Austin Theory)



ATL (Austin Theory)



Running Powerslam (Braun Strowman):



Sister Abigail (Bray Wyatt)



F5 (Brock Lesnar)



1916 (Finn Bálor)



Attitude Adjustment/AA (John Cena)



RKO (Randy Orton)



A-Town Down (Austin Theory)



W.M.D. (Big Show)



Codebreaker (Chris Jericho)



Coup De Grâce (Finn Bálor)



No Chin Music (James Ellsworth)



Punt Kick (Randy Orton)



Spear (Roman Reigns)



One Final Beat (Johnny Gargano)
I guess that works, though the Punt Kick I'd argue is stronger than most finishers due to the way it was being booked as a move that can end a wrestlers career.
 
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