-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Wordgirl vs Ender Dragon
- Thread starter Kriskirby
- Start date
- 10,819
- 254
Bump
Jackythejack
They/Them- 20,937
- 1,826
Bump
- 179
- 9
Bump
Jackythejack
They/Them- 20,937
- 1,826
It's been only two hours don't bump pls
- 10,819
- 254
Bump
- 10,819
- 254
Bump
- 10,819
- 254
Bump
- 1,160
- 186
The AP gap isn't really that massive, and reminder that the Enderdragon's AP comes from merely flying.
Wordgirl is a genius, but for her knowledge of words. Her rogues gallery isn't really comparable to something like the Enderdragon, so her experience isn't really impressive. Seriouslt, just look at the first 30 seconds of this clip to summarize 99% of her 'fights'. [[1]]
Idunno what you guys think, but I doubt Wordgirl will be able to properly function after one hit from an acid ball, severely weakening her not-so-big AP advantage, whereas the Enderdragon can take a lot of punishment from endgame Steve and other town level minecraft characters.
Enderdragon mid-diff.
Wordgirl is a genius, but for her knowledge of words. Her rogues gallery isn't really comparable to something like the Enderdragon, so her experience isn't really impressive. Seriouslt, just look at the first 30 seconds of this clip to summarize 99% of her 'fights'. [[1]]
Idunno what you guys think, but I doubt Wordgirl will be able to properly function after one hit from an acid ball, severely weakening her not-so-big AP advantage, whereas the Enderdragon can take a lot of punishment from endgame Steve and other town level minecraft characters.
Enderdragon mid-diff.
- 11,945
- 5,524
The thing is, that was a low end for a calculation of something she did pretty easily.
IIRC, she usually isn't captured before 99% of her fights. And a hero getting a new sidekick going wrong is a very typical plot. As for her experience, dealing with rogue monsters, giant robots ordered to destroy part of or the whole of the city, etc.
I don't think that one example is enough to support her not being skilled, & while I didn't write her profile, it lists her as:
"Genius in English and in combat; Average everywhere else (She knows almost every word in the English language and can think of very good battle strategies; she has exceptional vocabulary but is average in other fields)"
And it doesn't take a genius to know that a non-sapient dragon won't be talked down, as well as to avoid it, nor to avoid its acid. Or even to just avoid its head/acid attacks.
What makes you think an animalistic intelligence dragon that lives in an isolated environment is experienced enough?
It goes intangible & when it does so, it destroys things it flies through, spits acid, flies, & takes a lot of hits, yes, but those abilities are easy to understand, & it's not the most intelligent, nor is there much reason to believe it has great experience.
And its stamina helps less when she has the LS to tie its wings in knots or hold it by the back of its neck while she whallops it, or to throw it around, as well as the ice breath to freeze it, & the skill to avoid its attacks.
IIRC, she usually isn't captured before 99% of her fights. And a hero getting a new sidekick going wrong is a very typical plot. As for her experience, dealing with rogue monsters, giant robots ordered to destroy part of or the whole of the city, etc.
I don't think that one example is enough to support her not being skilled, & while I didn't write her profile, it lists her as:
"Genius in English and in combat; Average everywhere else (She knows almost every word in the English language and can think of very good battle strategies; she has exceptional vocabulary but is average in other fields)"
And it doesn't take a genius to know that a non-sapient dragon won't be talked down, as well as to avoid it, nor to avoid its acid. Or even to just avoid its head/acid attacks.
What makes you think an animalistic intelligence dragon that lives in an isolated environment is experienced enough?
It goes intangible & when it does so, it destroys things it flies through, spits acid, flies, & takes a lot of hits, yes, but those abilities are easy to understand, & it's not the most intelligent, nor is there much reason to believe it has great experience.
And its stamina helps less when she has the LS to tie its wings in knots or hold it by the back of its neck while she whallops it, or to throw it around, as well as the ice breath to freeze it, & the skill to avoid its attacks.
- 1,160
- 186
And the enderdragon casually flying through things is also a casual feat for it, so my point of the small AP gap still stands.
That wasn't the point of the video. The point was to show that she literally just gets captured for the plot due to her metabreaking, and the novice superhero boy wasn't aware of keeping the suspense at first. The point was that Wordgirl is almost never put in any actual danger, so her experience in battle won't help her much against the enderdragon, who actually has the potential to kill her.
Her 'good battle strategies' usually involves prep time or with the monkey in a way to subdue far weaker beings. As far as I remember, there was only one foe actually comparable to Wordgirl, and that character was the same person to casually deal with her.
It's also animalistic instinct to not recklessly take a hit once one finds out that a foe can damage them. That's a real life thing with animals as well, which is why a majority of animals who can't really fight defend themselves by appearing threatening. And besides, speed is equalized. Just because Wordgirl would know not to get hit doesn't mean she won't. Again, it isn't like she was ever pushed to her limit before, so she isn't skilled with dodging things at her level. Everyone knows to dodge dodgeballs in a dodgeball fight, it doesn't mean everyone will dodge them.
That's a strawman, I never made an argument for the enderdragon having experience either. I was just debunking Wordgirl's 'combat experience advantage' when she has no experience properly dealing with a foe on her level.
I honestly don't even agree with the intangibility ability, so I never even used that as an argument in the first place. But since you brought it up, I'm just gonna work with it to show how massively unfair it is for Wordgirl. Intangibility isn't something "easy to notice" without at least taking one hit from being caught off guard. What experience does Wordgirl have against foes with intangibility for it to be so easy to understand?
Again, no proper showing of her having skills to avoid attacks, so I'm not sure why you're trying to show how she casually has an advantage here, when again the Enderdragon ApPaReNtLy has intangibility, nullifying attempts to grab it or to freeze it.
The enderdragon has massive stamina to tank MANY town level attacks whereas Wordgirl does not. One decent hit from the Enderdragon alone would be enough to wake up Wordgirl and realize that she's screwed.
That wasn't the point of the video. The point was to show that she literally just gets captured for the plot due to her metabreaking, and the novice superhero boy wasn't aware of keeping the suspense at first. The point was that Wordgirl is almost never put in any actual danger, so her experience in battle won't help her much against the enderdragon, who actually has the potential to kill her.
Her 'good battle strategies' usually involves prep time or with the monkey in a way to subdue far weaker beings. As far as I remember, there was only one foe actually comparable to Wordgirl, and that character was the same person to casually deal with her.
It's also animalistic instinct to not recklessly take a hit once one finds out that a foe can damage them. That's a real life thing with animals as well, which is why a majority of animals who can't really fight defend themselves by appearing threatening. And besides, speed is equalized. Just because Wordgirl would know not to get hit doesn't mean she won't. Again, it isn't like she was ever pushed to her limit before, so she isn't skilled with dodging things at her level. Everyone knows to dodge dodgeballs in a dodgeball fight, it doesn't mean everyone will dodge them.
That's a strawman, I never made an argument for the enderdragon having experience either. I was just debunking Wordgirl's 'combat experience advantage' when she has no experience properly dealing with a foe on her level.
I honestly don't even agree with the intangibility ability, so I never even used that as an argument in the first place. But since you brought it up, I'm just gonna work with it to show how massively unfair it is for Wordgirl. Intangibility isn't something "easy to notice" without at least taking one hit from being caught off guard. What experience does Wordgirl have against foes with intangibility for it to be so easy to understand?
Again, no proper showing of her having skills to avoid attacks, so I'm not sure why you're trying to show how she casually has an advantage here, when again the Enderdragon ApPaReNtLy has intangibility, nullifying attempts to grab it or to freeze it.
The enderdragon has massive stamina to tank MANY town level attacks whereas Wordgirl does not. One decent hit from the Enderdragon alone would be enough to wake up Wordgirl and realize that she's screwed.
- 11,945
- 5,524
@DeathstroketheHedgehog: "The point was to show that she literally just gets captured for the plot due to her metabreaking, and the novice superhero boy wasn't aware of keeping the suspense at first."
Isn't getting captured for the plot the definition of Plot-Induced Stupidity, though?
The foe comparable to WordGirl.... Do you mean Miss Power? The problem is her feats including grabbing WordGirl & taking her to outer space, being unable to react when WordGirl froze her solid, breaking out of being frozen with her heat vision, throwing WordGirl back to Earth & catching her before she could react.
She might've casually dealt with WordGirl & been on her level, but WordGirl was casually dealt with by someone comparable to her through Speed & Lifting Strength feats.
That doesn't really prove The Ender Dragon would do much better when Speed is equalized, & WordGirl's Lifting Strength is 40,000 times that of the Ender Dragon's.
On the point of the intangibility, I'm uncertain about it as well, since AFAIK, its intangibility is only present when it charges through blocks, but even then, there are certain types it can't go through.
And a giant dragon passing through matter should be an obvious tell.
Except the Ender Dragon is naturally aggressive, & predictable. https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Ender_Dragon#Behavior It certainly hasn't been dealing with varied opponents for a year, & while it might try to retreat after taking enough damage. Against weaker opponents or not, I don't know of it making much attempt to strategize, nor dodge Steve's attacks.
And on the point of Stamina, it takes multiple hits for Steve to take out the Ender Dragon. Steve might be comparable, but WordGirl's casual feat is still scaled higher than the Ender Dragon's.
And Steve is the only opponent on the Ender Dragon's level it has fought in canon, hasn't it? Except, it barely strategizes besides retreating if it takes too much damage, and attacking, mostly based on its opponent's position.
A Superhero who's been dealing with crime for a year, usually thinks of ways to defeat her opponents even without strength (Or with strength, like when she ties robots in knots.), even given time, with a statistical advantage.
Also, the problem with arguing about acid is the Ender Dragon is a massive creature against a small opponent who can lift it, freeze breath, it, pin it, sonic scream at it, & all of its acid attacks come from its head, & "dragon breath is dangerous" is one of the most basic things to know about a dragon.
It would be obvious to avoid its head, & she has the sense, range & ability to stay out of that range.
As for when it uses its acid breath....
https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Ender_Dragon#Behavior
Strafing
Upon the destruction of an End crystal, the dragon immediately switches to this state to fire a fireball at them.
The dragon targets a player within 64 blocks of its nest. As soon as it is flying within 64 blocks of the player, it will shoot a fireball at the player.
The dragon will resume circling after this state.
Dragon's Breath
After 1.25 seconds, if a player is within 20 blocks of the nest, the dragon roars and use its 3-second breath attack, damaging players similarly to a lingering potio of Harming.
Take-off
After four consecutive breath attacks, or if the dragon fails to locate a player within 150 blocks, it takes off from its perch.
The dragon resumes circling after this state.
(Quoting one of the notes about fireballs: "The ender dragon's fireballs now give off Ender Acid particles upon exploding and no longer light ground on fire.") Between strafing, diving, circling, & escape, its acid attacks aren't that common. Its fireballs usually come in response to an End Crystal being destroyed (Not present in this fight's location, AFAIK.) or if they're close enough to its "nest". If it has one in this location, I'm unsure. Then, it resumes circling. When its breath attack is about to be used is made obvious by it roaring & it only doing so when they get close enough, moreso than for firing a fireball, & after 4 breath attacks in a row, it goes to take-off. Diving, charging, & it having patterns or predictability to its attacks, against an opponent experienced with fighting people with weird abilities or quirks, it wouldn't be hard for WordGirl to see this dragon & know to avoid its head from the start, or when it roars. If she simply flies to keep it trying to track her movement with its breath until it stops to inhale or tak off, then approaches while it takes a breath from breathing, & pins its head atop its neck, it can't really get her, & then freeze it, grab it, scream at it, punch it, etc. With regards to lifting abilities more than strong enough to ragdoll the dragon, possibly even throw it into space before it might realize to go intangible, if it does have that ability. And her feat is over 1.6 higher than the Ender Dragon's own feat, so it taking multiple hits from Steve to be beaten (& needing to lose only 25% of its health before it starts retreating, although it might not do so here, given SBA.) means it probably won't last as long as with Steve.
Isn't getting captured for the plot the definition of Plot-Induced Stupidity, though?
The foe comparable to WordGirl.... Do you mean Miss Power? The problem is her feats including grabbing WordGirl & taking her to outer space, being unable to react when WordGirl froze her solid, breaking out of being frozen with her heat vision, throwing WordGirl back to Earth & catching her before she could react.
She might've casually dealt with WordGirl & been on her level, but WordGirl was casually dealt with by someone comparable to her through Speed & Lifting Strength feats.
That doesn't really prove The Ender Dragon would do much better when Speed is equalized, & WordGirl's Lifting Strength is 40,000 times that of the Ender Dragon's.
On the point of the intangibility, I'm uncertain about it as well, since AFAIK, its intangibility is only present when it charges through blocks, but even then, there are certain types it can't go through.
And a giant dragon passing through matter should be an obvious tell.
Except the Ender Dragon is naturally aggressive, & predictable. https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Ender_Dragon#Behavior It certainly hasn't been dealing with varied opponents for a year, & while it might try to retreat after taking enough damage. Against weaker opponents or not, I don't know of it making much attempt to strategize, nor dodge Steve's attacks.
And on the point of Stamina, it takes multiple hits for Steve to take out the Ender Dragon. Steve might be comparable, but WordGirl's casual feat is still scaled higher than the Ender Dragon's.
And Steve is the only opponent on the Ender Dragon's level it has fought in canon, hasn't it? Except, it barely strategizes besides retreating if it takes too much damage, and attacking, mostly based on its opponent's position.
A Superhero who's been dealing with crime for a year, usually thinks of ways to defeat her opponents even without strength (Or with strength, like when she ties robots in knots.), even given time, with a statistical advantage.
Also, the problem with arguing about acid is the Ender Dragon is a massive creature against a small opponent who can lift it, freeze breath, it, pin it, sonic scream at it, & all of its acid attacks come from its head, & "dragon breath is dangerous" is one of the most basic things to know about a dragon.
It would be obvious to avoid its head, & she has the sense, range & ability to stay out of that range.
As for when it uses its acid breath....
https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Ender_Dragon#Behavior
Strafing
Upon the destruction of an End crystal, the dragon immediately switches to this state to fire a fireball at them.
The dragon targets a player within 64 blocks of its nest. As soon as it is flying within 64 blocks of the player, it will shoot a fireball at the player.
The dragon will resume circling after this state.
Dragon's Breath
After 1.25 seconds, if a player is within 20 blocks of the nest, the dragon roars and use its 3-second breath attack, damaging players similarly to a lingering potio of Harming.
Take-off
After four consecutive breath attacks, or if the dragon fails to locate a player within 150 blocks, it takes off from its perch.
The dragon resumes circling after this state.
(Quoting one of the notes about fireballs: "The ender dragon's fireballs now give off Ender Acid particles upon exploding and no longer light ground on fire.") Between strafing, diving, circling, & escape, its acid attacks aren't that common. Its fireballs usually come in response to an End Crystal being destroyed (Not present in this fight's location, AFAIK.) or if they're close enough to its "nest". If it has one in this location, I'm unsure. Then, it resumes circling. When its breath attack is about to be used is made obvious by it roaring & it only doing so when they get close enough, moreso than for firing a fireball, & after 4 breath attacks in a row, it goes to take-off. Diving, charging, & it having patterns or predictability to its attacks, against an opponent experienced with fighting people with weird abilities or quirks, it wouldn't be hard for WordGirl to see this dragon & know to avoid its head from the start, or when it roars. If she simply flies to keep it trying to track her movement with its breath until it stops to inhale or tak off, then approaches while it takes a breath from breathing, & pins its head atop its neck, it can't really get her, & then freeze it, grab it, scream at it, punch it, etc. With regards to lifting abilities more than strong enough to ragdoll the dragon, possibly even throw it into space before it might realize to go intangible, if it does have that ability. And her feat is over 1.6 higher than the Ender Dragon's own feat, so it taking multiple hits from Steve to be beaten (& needing to lose only 25% of its health before it starts retreating, although it might not do so here, given SBA.) means it probably won't last as long as with Steve.
- 1,160
- 186
"Isn't getting captured for the plot the definition of Plot-Induced Stupidity, though?"
You once again missed my point. Apparently I'm gonna have to tell you the exact time stamp in order for you to understand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGIz3hosFyk&app=desktop
0:24-0:32
She intentionally gets trapped solely for the plot, but the other novice hero isn't aware of that intention until he sees her get frustrated. She then just gives up and casually breaks free.
She gets trapped, she gets herself in danger, all on purpose for the sake of suspense and plot. The beginning part of that video was literally the narrator and Wordgirl acting like they were caught. Even the monkey got pissed that Kid Math ruined the suspense, it was all just an act.
99% of the time, Wordgirl massively outclasses everyone in her rogues gallery. Her one-year of experience means nothing to the enderdragon. Take Man of Steel for example. Superman casually lives massively out of the league of everyone and everything on Earth. When a kryptonian soldier ginally fights him, Superman has zero experience with someone on his level, and despite his strength advantage due to solar exposure, he still gets clapped.
This is the scenario I'm proposing. Out of her entire year of superhero work, Wordgirl has no experience with a deadly peer enemy.
"The foe comparable to WordGirl.... Do you mean Miss Power? She might've casually dealt with WordGirl & been on her level, but WordGirl was casually dealt with by someone comparable to her through Speed & Lifting Strength feats."
For one, there was no real speed to talk about there. Both of them were comparable in speed. For another, you missed my point again which I've addressed above already; Wordgirl has no experience with beating someone on her level of power. Ironically, all this shows is that Wordgirl opens herself up to be grabbed a lot of times in-character. If she's open to a grab, she's opened to being hit with an acidic projectile.
"a giant dragon passing through matter should be an obvious tell."
That assumes that the enderdragon goes out of her way to pass through matter before reaching Wordgirl. That requires an environmental advantage for Wordgirl, because it's not like the enderdragon is known for sneak-burrowing attacks or anything. Especially when both opponents fly.
The majority of the rest of your comment is unironically using game coding and mechanics to claim the ender dragon is way too easily predictable.
Allow me to show you this page. At this point you're downgrading the Enderdragon from animalistic to a one-minded "follow this set of patterns, and if X-event happens, follow this pattern". You are literally using pure game coding at this point to describe her behavior, and that's just downright wrong.
"And on the point of Stamina, it takes multiple hits for Steve to take out the Ender Dragon. Steve might be comparable, but WordGirl's casual feat is still scaled higher than the Ender Dragon's."
Wordgirl's casual feat isn't even twice that of the Enderdragon's casual feat. Steve with a strength 2 potion can be considered twice that, and the Ender Dragon can still take a beating. a 1.6 strength advantage is nothing OP for the Enderdragon, only vice versa since Wordgirl isn't the type to take a beating.
"Also, the problem with arguing about acid is the Ender Dragon is a massive creature against a small opponent who can lift it, freeze breath, it, pin it, sonic scream at it, & all of its acid attacks come from its head, & "dragon breath is dangerous" is one of the most basic things to know about a dragon."
She very scarcely resorts to using freeze breath or sonic scream in-character, so it'd be wrong to act like it will be her common go-to move just because it's something she can do. Also, you ignored my dodgeball analogy apparently since you repeated the same argument tht the dodgeball analogy countered.
"It would be obvious to avoid its head, & she has the sense, range & ability to stay out of that range."
Lol what range? The only things she has range for is abilities she almost never resorts to. Her first option is to always try to go melee, bringing her straight into range. Speed is equalized, so it isn't like she'll close the distance faster than the enderdragon can turn its head.
"As for when it uses its acid breath...."
I'm gonna stop you right there. |"After 1.25 seconds, if a player is within 20 blocks of the nest, the dragon roars and use its 3-second breath attack".| Tell me that this does not sound like game mechanics. Tell me that this is actually a true 100% personality of the enderdragon and not a mere intented fight coding implemented into the game.
That's literally what 70% of your comment is relying on: the enderdragon unironically acting this way.
You once again missed my point. Apparently I'm gonna have to tell you the exact time stamp in order for you to understand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGIz3hosFyk&app=desktop
0:24-0:32
She intentionally gets trapped solely for the plot, but the other novice hero isn't aware of that intention until he sees her get frustrated. She then just gives up and casually breaks free.
She gets trapped, she gets herself in danger, all on purpose for the sake of suspense and plot. The beginning part of that video was literally the narrator and Wordgirl acting like they were caught. Even the monkey got pissed that Kid Math ruined the suspense, it was all just an act.
99% of the time, Wordgirl massively outclasses everyone in her rogues gallery. Her one-year of experience means nothing to the enderdragon. Take Man of Steel for example. Superman casually lives massively out of the league of everyone and everything on Earth. When a kryptonian soldier ginally fights him, Superman has zero experience with someone on his level, and despite his strength advantage due to solar exposure, he still gets clapped.
This is the scenario I'm proposing. Out of her entire year of superhero work, Wordgirl has no experience with a deadly peer enemy.
"The foe comparable to WordGirl.... Do you mean Miss Power? She might've casually dealt with WordGirl & been on her level, but WordGirl was casually dealt with by someone comparable to her through Speed & Lifting Strength feats."
For one, there was no real speed to talk about there. Both of them were comparable in speed. For another, you missed my point again which I've addressed above already; Wordgirl has no experience with beating someone on her level of power. Ironically, all this shows is that Wordgirl opens herself up to be grabbed a lot of times in-character. If she's open to a grab, she's opened to being hit with an acidic projectile.
"a giant dragon passing through matter should be an obvious tell."
That assumes that the enderdragon goes out of her way to pass through matter before reaching Wordgirl. That requires an environmental advantage for Wordgirl, because it's not like the enderdragon is known for sneak-burrowing attacks or anything. Especially when both opponents fly.
The majority of the rest of your comment is unironically using game coding and mechanics to claim the ender dragon is way too easily predictable.
Allow me to show you this page. At this point you're downgrading the Enderdragon from animalistic to a one-minded "follow this set of patterns, and if X-event happens, follow this pattern". You are literally using pure game coding at this point to describe her behavior, and that's just downright wrong.
"And on the point of Stamina, it takes multiple hits for Steve to take out the Ender Dragon. Steve might be comparable, but WordGirl's casual feat is still scaled higher than the Ender Dragon's."
Wordgirl's casual feat isn't even twice that of the Enderdragon's casual feat. Steve with a strength 2 potion can be considered twice that, and the Ender Dragon can still take a beating. a 1.6 strength advantage is nothing OP for the Enderdragon, only vice versa since Wordgirl isn't the type to take a beating.
"Also, the problem with arguing about acid is the Ender Dragon is a massive creature against a small opponent who can lift it, freeze breath, it, pin it, sonic scream at it, & all of its acid attacks come from its head, & "dragon breath is dangerous" is one of the most basic things to know about a dragon."
She very scarcely resorts to using freeze breath or sonic scream in-character, so it'd be wrong to act like it will be her common go-to move just because it's something she can do. Also, you ignored my dodgeball analogy apparently since you repeated the same argument tht the dodgeball analogy countered.
"It would be obvious to avoid its head, & she has the sense, range & ability to stay out of that range."
Lol what range? The only things she has range for is abilities she almost never resorts to. Her first option is to always try to go melee, bringing her straight into range. Speed is equalized, so it isn't like she'll close the distance faster than the enderdragon can turn its head.
"As for when it uses its acid breath...."
I'm gonna stop you right there. |"After 1.25 seconds, if a player is within 20 blocks of the nest, the dragon roars and use its 3-second breath attack".| Tell me that this does not sound like game mechanics. Tell me that this is actually a true 100% personality of the enderdragon and not a mere intented fight coding implemented into the game.
That's literally what 70% of your comment is relying on: the enderdragon unironically acting this way.
- 11,945
- 5,524
She did put herself in danger as a show of suspense & plot to show off how she fights, showing she doesn't take her villains seriously. But she also knows those villains well, & most of them are humans with issues.
The Ender Dragon is clearly dangerous, & a wild animal. She has reason to take it more seriously than other opponents, especially since, per the OP, this takes place in her home location.
And if she saw it shooting a fireball or breathing fire (As it might do at range.), she'd probably not want everything burning down, & have good reason to use her frost breath to stop the fire from spreading, if she doesn't fly out of the way.
(Technically, they also start tens of meters away, per SBA, as that's the maximum range among the combatants.)
"For one, there was no real speed to talk about there. Both of them were comparable in speed." Except when Miss Power showed she was faster (at the time, before being depowered) by grabbing WordGirl before she could react and when she was thrown to Earth so fast she nearly hit the ground and was caught before she could even start to right herself?
I'd say Miss Power was able to grab her in that case because she was faster.
And being grabbed by someone you were formerly allied with and talking with is different from a huge, aggressive dragon shooting acidic fire at you. One is a lot more obvious, especially if the latter precedes its assault with a roar, or even just opening its mouth wide.
Having not seen that scene (& I'm not sure MoS Supes nor the soldier have profiles here.) I'm not sure Man of Steel Superman vs a trained Kryptonian Soldier is a reasonable comparison to a somewhat experienced Superhero vs a dragon that lived in isolation & seems to run on... instincts?
Not to mention, I'm not sure of whether we wouldn't call that as PiS. Was it was a regular Kryptonian, not empowered to Superman's level by the sun, nor by equipment? What were that Superman's feats? Did we know it to be comparable?
And while I agree, a lot of what I cited is could be called Game Mechanics, it's also how it acts in gameplay.
And the page you linked on our wiki says:
Game Mechanics refers to the abilities shown in games (usually video games) that are determined by the rules of the game (examples include hit points, levels, stats, world map crossing in seconds outside cinematics, etcetera) and are not necessarily indicative of a character/entity's actual abilities.
Besides that I was citing the Wiki about its behaviour (in gameplay, but behaviour nonetheless.), ALL of the Ender Dragon's abilities come from gameplay, do they not?
And they line up with instincts, albeit, in simple ways, don't they? Attack those who get too close, with different ways for different levels of closeness, patrol territory, retreat if things get too damaged....
Given that, AFAIK, the Ender Dragon doesn't have officially written lore or official depictions of how it behaves beyond gameplay, it's a better basis for the Ender Dragon's Intelligence than the nonexistent justification for its Unknow Intelligence on its profile.
Regarding the intangibility being shown, there will be matter in its way. The location is a city, & flying through walls, Earth, etc. is probably nothing new to the Ender Dragon. Who says it wouldn't go through buildings it can can go through casually?
Steve's profile doesn't mention Strength Potions at all, nor do the Ender Dragon's ratings or his own mention Strength Potions. And isn't that multiplier determined by what you called game mechanics as well? Especially since how much damage it can ultimately take is determined by its HP, something else defined by game mechanics?
The dodgeball analogy. Yes, anyone can dodge dodgeballs, but not everyone can dodge all of the dodgeballs in a game.
Except the Ender Dragon still only has one head, not a whole sports team of them, may breathe fire prolongedly, waste time inhaling after prolonged breath attacks, she can counter its acidic fire attacks with her own breath attacks....
And it has to move its neck or body to aim its fireballs, and is fighting a target much smaller than itself.
One that's probably smarter & more tactical than it, & stronger in AP, Durability, as well as Lifting Strength, so in close range (Which you claim she'd go into), she could bend its neck to aim it differently, or spin it around & so forth.
If she gets to an angle where it can't aim its head, it has to spend time reorienting itself, which she can exploit.
The Ender Dragon is clearly dangerous, & a wild animal. She has reason to take it more seriously than other opponents, especially since, per the OP, this takes place in her home location.
And if she saw it shooting a fireball or breathing fire (As it might do at range.), she'd probably not want everything burning down, & have good reason to use her frost breath to stop the fire from spreading, if she doesn't fly out of the way.
(Technically, they also start tens of meters away, per SBA, as that's the maximum range among the combatants.)
"For one, there was no real speed to talk about there. Both of them were comparable in speed." Except when Miss Power showed she was faster (at the time, before being depowered) by grabbing WordGirl before she could react and when she was thrown to Earth so fast she nearly hit the ground and was caught before she could even start to right herself?
I'd say Miss Power was able to grab her in that case because she was faster.
And being grabbed by someone you were formerly allied with and talking with is different from a huge, aggressive dragon shooting acidic fire at you. One is a lot more obvious, especially if the latter precedes its assault with a roar, or even just opening its mouth wide.
Having not seen that scene (& I'm not sure MoS Supes nor the soldier have profiles here.) I'm not sure Man of Steel Superman vs a trained Kryptonian Soldier is a reasonable comparison to a somewhat experienced Superhero vs a dragon that lived in isolation & seems to run on... instincts?
Not to mention, I'm not sure of whether we wouldn't call that as PiS. Was it was a regular Kryptonian, not empowered to Superman's level by the sun, nor by equipment? What were that Superman's feats? Did we know it to be comparable?
And while I agree, a lot of what I cited is could be called Game Mechanics, it's also how it acts in gameplay.
And the page you linked on our wiki says:
Game Mechanics refers to the abilities shown in games (usually video games) that are determined by the rules of the game (examples include hit points, levels, stats, world map crossing in seconds outside cinematics, etcetera) and are not necessarily indicative of a character/entity's actual abilities.
Besides that I was citing the Wiki about its behaviour (in gameplay, but behaviour nonetheless.), ALL of the Ender Dragon's abilities come from gameplay, do they not?
And they line up with instincts, albeit, in simple ways, don't they? Attack those who get too close, with different ways for different levels of closeness, patrol territory, retreat if things get too damaged....
Given that, AFAIK, the Ender Dragon doesn't have officially written lore or official depictions of how it behaves beyond gameplay, it's a better basis for the Ender Dragon's Intelligence than the nonexistent justification for its Unknow Intelligence on its profile.
Regarding the intangibility being shown, there will be matter in its way. The location is a city, & flying through walls, Earth, etc. is probably nothing new to the Ender Dragon. Who says it wouldn't go through buildings it can can go through casually?
Steve's profile doesn't mention Strength Potions at all, nor do the Ender Dragon's ratings or his own mention Strength Potions. And isn't that multiplier determined by what you called game mechanics as well? Especially since how much damage it can ultimately take is determined by its HP, something else defined by game mechanics?
The dodgeball analogy. Yes, anyone can dodge dodgeballs, but not everyone can dodge all of the dodgeballs in a game.
Except the Ender Dragon still only has one head, not a whole sports team of them, may breathe fire prolongedly, waste time inhaling after prolonged breath attacks, she can counter its acidic fire attacks with her own breath attacks....
And it has to move its neck or body to aim its fireballs, and is fighting a target much smaller than itself.
One that's probably smarter & more tactical than it, & stronger in AP, Durability, as well as Lifting Strength, so in close range (Which you claim she'd go into), she could bend its neck to aim it differently, or spin it around & so forth.
If she gets to an angle where it can't aim its head, it has to spend time reorienting itself, which she can exploit.
- 1,160
- 186
I don't see how it helps her scenario out at all with it being in her home location. With the fact that they are in-character, all that would do is make it worse for Wordgirl since she goes out of her way to protect people (but I'm honestly not gonna use that as an argument). Regardless, merely taking it more seriously does not mean it will grant Wordgirl the experience to take on the dragon.Imaginym said:
And if she saw it shooting a fireball or breathing fire (As it might do at range.), she'd probably not want everything burning down, & have good reason to use her frost breath to stop the fire from spreading, if she doesn't fly out of the way.
Except it's acid, not fire. And considering half the time she allows herself to be hit because 'plot', along with her not having some sort of power level sensing like Dragonball, she'd have no idea what she's up against in the first place. Bringing her personality as an argument is a bad idea, because she had a kid personality in a kid's show. It's not malice at all. Despite the obvious rule that Wordgirl is willing to kill in this scenario, Wordgirl is not mentally prepared for this battle.
(Technically, they also start tens of meters away, per SBA, as that's the maximum range among the combatants.)
Going by SBA, Wordgirl is in character, and she will instantly negate any range she has by resorting to melee as her first option.
"For one, there was no real speed to talk about there. Both of them were comparable in speed." Except when Miss Power showed she was faster (at the time, before being depowered) by grabbing WordGirl before she could react and when she was thrown to Earth so fast she nearly hit the ground and was caught before she could even start to right herself?
I'd say Miss Power was able to grab her in that case because she was faster.
That wasn't "before she could react". She caught Wordgirl's belt from behind. Wordgirl may be an alien, but she has no eyes popping out the back of her head. And that same "grabbing WordGirl before she could react" logic could be applied to Wordgirl freezing Miss Power "before she can react". It doesn't really work out, the verse is just really poor at defending themselves, save for cheesy scenarios such as the monkey eating a food-attack to save Wordgirl.
And being grabbed by someone you were formerly allied with and talking with is different from a huge, aggressive dragon shooting acidic fire at you. One is a lot more obvious, especially if the latter precedes its assault with a roar, or even just opening its mouth wide.
First, you'd have to assume Wordgirl gets the connection between the roar and the acidball, which is at least gonna be three shots from the enderdragon. Considering speed is equalized, it's a fat chance for Wordgirl to be able to dodge three of them from close range. Second, that roar is a game mechanic that happens should a player be within range of its nest while it is hovering over it. Here is the enderdragon with no roar warning firing an acid ball.
This is the situation you're using . "After 1.25 seconds, if a player is within 20 blocks of the nest, the dragon roars and use its 3-second breath attack, damaging players similarly to a lingering potio of Harming." A purely game mechanic induced sound effect that can't even happen in a place like Fair City.
Having not seen that scene (& I'm not sure MoS Supes nor the soldier have profiles here.) I'm not sure Man of Steel Superman vs a trained Kryptonian Soldier is a reasonable comparison to a somewhat experienced Superhero vs a dragon that lived in isolation & seems to run on... instincts?
(Um, they do have profiles. This is vsbattle wiki, why wouldn't they?) The comparison is "a person with no experience against people on their level" to "someone on their level with intent to kill". Superman doesn't know how to fight against that. That's the anaolgy I was trying to make with Wordgirl.
Not to mention, I'm not sure of whether we wouldn't call that as PiS. Was it was a regular Kryptonian, not empowered to Superman's level by the sun, nor by equipment? What were that Superman's feats? Did we know it to be comparable?
... if you haven't seen the movie, why are you questioning it? That's going to unecessarily expand the size of these comments. Regardless, there was no PIS.
And while I agree, a lot of what I cited is could be called Game Mechanics, it's also how it acts in gameplay.
... yes. That's the point of game mechanics.
And the page you linked on our wiki says:
Game Mechanics refers to the abilities shown in games (usually video games) that are determined by the rules of the game (examples include hit points, levels, stats, world map crossing in seconds outside cinematics, etcetera) and are not necessarily indicative of a character/entity's actual abilities.
Besides that I was citing the Wiki about its behaviour (in gameplay, but behaviour nonetheless.), ALL of the Ender Dragon's abilities come from gameplay, do they not?
You do realize your counterargument is trying to say my logic is calling the ender dragon's abilities game mechanics, right?... It's like your ignored the definition of game mechanics that you literally just quoted.
And they line up with instincts, albeit, in simple ways, don't they? Attack those who get too close, with different ways for different levels of closeness, patrol territory, retreat if things get too damaged....
The problem is that you were taking these codings word-for-word rather than generalizing it as animalistic. I can literally quote your previous comment that basically said Wordgirl would easily predict the enderdragon because it fights in a specific pattern.
Given that, AFAIK, the Ender Dragon doesn't have officially written lore or official depictions of how it behaves beyond gameplay, it's a better basis for the Ender Dragon's Intelligence than the nonexistent justification for its Unknow Intelligence on its profile.
Well that's the mistake of whoever made the page, not me. Animalistic is literally an Intelligence tier, I have no clue why they simply resorted to unknown, but even you agree with it being animalistic, so why are you limiting it to game patterns?
Regarding the intangibility being shown, there will be matter in its way. The location is a city, & flying through walls, Earth, etc. is probably nothing new to the Ender Dragon. Who says it wouldn't go through buildings it can can go through casually?
Because it would be outright destroying those buildings. The intangibility comes from the fact that it phases through obsidian, endstone and 'unbreakable' blocks. This is the reason I'm against Intangibility in the first place.
Steve's profile doesn't mention Strength Potions at all, nor do the Ender Dragon's ratings or his own mention Strength Potions. And isn't that multiplier determined by what you called game mechanics as well? Especially since how much damage it can ultimately take is determined by its HP, something else defined by game mechanics?
Look closer into the Player's powers and abilities and you'll see something saying "Statistics Amplification".
The dodgeball analogy. Yes, anyone can dodge dodgeballs, but not everyone can dodge all of the dodgeballs in a game.
Except the Ender Dragon still only has one head, not a whole sports team of them, may breathe fire prolongedly, waste time inhaling after prolonged breath attacks, she can counter its acidic fire attacks with her own breath attacks....
It doesn't take a team of people to hit one person, it only takes one. You're not guaranteed to be able to dodge a dodgeball just because one person is throwing it.
And it has to move its neck or body to aim its fireballs, and is fighting a target much smaller than itself.
According to you bringing up the SBA, They start off tens of meters apart. There's not a lot of head moving it even has to do to take aim at Wordgirl from that distance, especially when the both of them are likely to charge directly at each other.
One that's probably smarter & more tactical than it, & stronger in AP, Durability, as well as Lifting Strength, so in close range (Which you claim she'd go into), she could bend its neck to aim it differently, or spin it around & so forth.
If she gets to an angle where it can't aim its head, it has to spend time reorienting itself, which she can exploit.
You're skipping the part where Wordgirl has to get in that optimal position in the first place. Not only is it not in-character for her as her first immediate action, but with speed equalized and Wordgirl closing in from a distance, her attempting to get in an optimal position off the bat merely gives the enderdragon more time to aim.
- 1,160
- 186
Also, I took a glance at the Wordgirl meteor feat, and there was definitely signs of straining from her. The meteor feat was not casual. She even admits it's "cumbersome".
- 1,160
- 186
Bump
- 1,856
- 82
Toothless FRA
- 5,336
- 1,217
Wordgirl FRA.
- 179
- 9
Yes
- 1,160
- 186
Doesn't the verdict depend both on votes and the side with the better constructive argument according to Versus Thread Rules?
Our debate hasn't exactly been going through circles or became redundant or anything, and I've responded to every point Imaginym made for Wordgirl.
I'm pointing this out since most of the Wordgirl votes are "FRA", because that would nullify a majority of Wordgirl's votes.
Our debate hasn't exactly been going through circles or became redundant or anything, and I've responded to every point Imaginym made for Wordgirl.
I'm pointing this out since most of the Wordgirl votes are "FRA", because that would nullify a majority of Wordgirl's votes.
Similar threads
