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The match ended up getting removed, according to SonebodyData people ignored the major buff she got (Admittedly I wasn't aware of it)
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Wolf (Sekiro) Vs Sayaka Miki
- Thread starter Schnee_One
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As expected...
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I am also not very knowledgable regarding the Memoria buffs Sayaka got, that's why I excluded them in my argument.
Although, wouldn't Sayaka have the AP advantage here considering her feat being pretty casual?
Although, wouldn't Sayaka have the AP advantage here considering her feat being pretty casual?
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Sayaka scales from 6.66 Kilotons while Wolf scales to 16 Kilotons and can one shot people like that with Deathblows
It's not a notable advantage by any means.
It's not a notable advantage by any means.
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Sekiro should still outskill?
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So, it should safe to say they are comparable, at least if we're discounting the Memoria buffs.
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We're not tho, this is Magia Record Sayaka like I said earlier
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Should I just remake this when SD shows up? I realize now it's already over 40 posts down
Mr. Bambu
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I mean. No? If they wanna join in then that's fine and we can sorta bend the rules and wait for a debate from them before closing grace. But I don't know what they expect if they won't speak on a match. I spoke to another PMMM person who was knowledgeable before making a vote, drk what to think.Schnee One said:
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Magia Record Chapter 10 (Has been enhanced by Mitama Yakumo, putting her somewhere between 1.5 and 2 without memoria. Higher once you count that.) > Magia Record (Memoria grants several active and passive boosts to her AP and Durability, seven AP boosts, 1 damage boost, 3 durability boosts, 1 damage reduction) >>> Sayaka's AP (Main Series, ranked a 1.5) >> H.N. Elly (Killed Elly via simply punching her to death by the end of their fight) = Sayaka's Durability (Ranked a 0.5 for reference) = 6.66 kilotons.
My biggest issue is that people seem to forget that its Sayaka's durability that scales directly from the 6.66 kilotons, her AP scales via being 1 point higher than her durability.
My biggest issue is that people seem to forget that its Sayaka's durability that scales directly from the 6.66 kilotons, her AP scales via being 1 point higher than her durability.
Mr. Bambu
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Okay, that's good, but do we know how much higher or is this just a situation of "undefined number higher"Sir Ovens said:
Coz if its the latter then we can't do much with it
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For comparsion's sake, the verse's tiering system has the difference between 4.5 and 6 as a tier jump, the gap between normal Sayaka's AP and her durability is 1 point. Nearly a tier jump by all other standards.
She can also (barely) harm some Kamihama witches (Low 7-B) in the beginning of Magia Reco, so she's an undefined amount closer to the top of tier 7-C rather than just 6.66.
She can also (barely) harm some Kamihama witches (Low 7-B) in the beginning of Magia Reco, so she's an undefined amount closer to the top of tier 7-C rather than just 6.66.
Mr. Bambu
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That's good, but one could point out that the arguments were never about AP, but rather just insta-gibbing her Type 8 and killing. How does having higher AP to an unknown extent actually prevent this?
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Well another thing the thread forgot was that even assuming he has the ability to one shot her physical body and negate regen and immortality type 2 (you said 8, but that's oktavia), he would still have to destroy the soul gem.
With the AP: Without one shotting on his side and the possibility of Sayaka heavily damaging him, if not one shotting him, with her blows, it becomes more debatable no?
Especially since she has a range advantage (the one time lol) with sleep manip and air manip. I haven't played the game, so correct me if I'm wrong, but Sekiro is the kind of intellectual fighter that tries dodging and keeping his distance between attacks, right? That forces Sayaka to start using ranged moves, either one being very dangerous for Sekiro.
With the AP: Without one shotting on his side and the possibility of Sayaka heavily damaging him, if not one shotting him, with her blows, it becomes more debatable no?
Especially since she has a range advantage (the one time lol) with sleep manip and air manip. I haven't played the game, so correct me if I'm wrong, but Sekiro is the kind of intellectual fighter that tries dodging and keeping his distance between attacks, right? That forces Sayaka to start using ranged moves, either one being very dangerous for Sekiro.
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Why would he have to destroy the soul gem if she doesn't have type 8 reliant on it?
Sekiro is more one to parry attacks than dodge tbf, but he can dodge if needed. He does it for people like the Divine Dragon but parrying is the best way to actually fight in-game. So... I guess it depends on the attack. If it's like with a weapon, probably going for parrying and dodging if needed, if its an elemental attack, he'd probably just dodge.
Randomlamdom
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She isn't reliant on the gem because she is the gem, she's just piloting her old body
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Think about it this way. As long as the gem still attach to her body one way or the other she is kinda still live. Pull that away from her for like a few seconds and she drop dead.
Randomlamdom
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Doesn't exactly work like that anyway, take her away from her body is fine unless she gets more than 100 metres away, then her body will drop dead
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Okay so Wolf is fighting a gem with the standard equipment of the body. If this is correct then Wolf really shouldn't have issue just ignoring the body, right? Like if the gem is his enemy then he is actively trying to kill the gem, there's no reason to give a damn about the body.Randomlamdom said:
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Sayaka soul is literally the gem, the body is merely a puppet.
Randomlamdom
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But he wouldn't know that, pretty sure he has no way to sense souls so when he sees her regenerating from everything he'd have no reason to think about targeting the gem, he'll just go for the mortal blade
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He is aware of his opponent though. You make it explicit that this gem is for some reason not the opponent and not the body reliant on the gem. For some reason. So yes. He will go straight for the gem. Because you demand that we treat it like this.Randomlamdom said:
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I mean the soul gem is her but if you fight her you're going to assume the body is the actual her.
At first even none of the magical girls knew that they had become the actual soul gems either. They just always have the soul gems on them too.
It's VERY important to note however that Sayaka's soul is literally located on the midsection of her waist. One of the most commonly attacked places on the body.
He might just hit there regardless.
@Mr. Bambu here's a link to a bunch of magical girls dying so you get a gist of what it's like:
https://youtu.be/Jp0tBXtxDbc
And here's a link to what happened to Sayaka when the soul gem got distanced from the body:
https://youtu.be/ksCvu18lBG4 (0:30)
At first even none of the magical girls knew that they had become the actual soul gems either. They just always have the soul gems on them too.
It's VERY important to note however that Sayaka's soul is literally located on the midsection of her waist. One of the most commonly attacked places on the body.
He might just hit there regardless.
@Mr. Bambu here's a link to a bunch of magical girls dying so you get a gist of what it's like:
https://youtu.be/Jp0tBXtxDbc
And here's a link to what happened to Sayaka when the soul gem got distanced from the body:
https://youtu.be/ksCvu18lBG4 (0:30)
Randomlamdom
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What? sba says that they know there's an enemy but they have no information about them, if he sees a girl with a sword going up to him he'll think okay i have to kill the girl. i'm not demanding anything, just clearing up some misconceptions
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This might be a strange point, but if he severs the connection, wouldn't the connection come back? Soul gems just need to be in proximity to regain connection in the PMMM verse whenever the connection is lost, what's the difference here?
That, and most of her attacks are dependent on the puppet body. Except one. Sleep Manipulation (arguably energy projection, but she's used the sleep manip more than the latter). If Wolf forces her to resort to just be a soul gem, that would just be forcing her to use the one thing that takes him out entirely.
That, and most of her attacks are dependent on the puppet body. Except one. Sleep Manipulation (arguably energy projection, but she's used the sleep manip more than the latter). If Wolf forces her to resort to just be a soul gem, that would just be forcing her to use the one thing that takes him out entirely.
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It depends entirely on how Wolf's sword works which I honestly have no idea about. Although severing the connection would just mean the soul is trapped in the gem.....and that's it.
I still think that since Sleep Manipulation is an attack that only comes from the games that it would be very OOC to even happen.
I still think that since Sleep Manipulation is an attack that only comes from the games that it would be very OOC to even happen.
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According to WoG and Kazumi Magica, they could still use their magic (to a degree) while being body-less.
Yeah, that's why I mentioned being reduced to the soul gem would force it to use sleep manip, making the ooc issue irrelevant.
Yeah, that's why I mentioned being reduced to the soul gem would force it to use sleep manip, making the ooc issue irrelevant.
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I don't want to come off as sarcastic when I say this, but you do know everything else she can do is reliant on her swords in some way right? Save for, like telepathy and gylph creation.
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I've only seen the anime and rebellion so I wasn't sure if any of the other game abilities come about differently. Like how does her sleep manipulation work? I doubt it's related to her sword.
Again though we don't know which she'd be capable of using in the soul gem like sleep manipulation specifically.
Again though we don't know which she'd be capable of using in the soul gem like sleep manipulation specifically.
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The point is that every other ability is reliant on the sword, except the specific ones I mentioned + sleep manip.
No connection = only access to these abilities and maybe energy projection.
No connection = only access to these abilities and maybe energy projection.
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My point is that we don't know if she has access to those abilities that you described as a soul gem. Sure WoG said she has access to her magic but is it ever specified which abilities come with them and to what extent? If not then there's no reason they would scale at all to when she's with her body.
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Okay, I see your point. The issue, that I'm trying to get across without insulting here, well:
Regenerationn > No body > Impossible
Sword Creation > No body > Impossible
Air Manipulation > No sword > Impossible
Etc, etc, etc...
It's not hard to see which abilities she can use when all of them in some way or another require the body or a sword to actually use.
The only ones that don't require the either the body or the sword, are the ones I'm mentioning (telepathy, sleep manip, glyph creation, and possibly energy creation).
Regenerationn > No body > Impossible
Sword Creation > No body > Impossible
Air Manipulation > No sword > Impossible
Etc, etc, etc...
It's not hard to see which abilities she can use when all of them in some way or another require the body or a sword to actually use.
The only ones that don't require the either the body or the sword, are the ones I'm mentioning (telepathy, sleep manip, glyph creation, and possibly energy creation).
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"The only ones that don't require the either the body or the sword, are the ones I'm mentioning (telepathy, sleep manip, glyph creation, and possibly energy creation)."
Yes and I am specifically talking about those right there. Without Sayaka having demonstrated actually doing these we can't assume she's capable of using a any specific one.
WoG said she can use magic to a degree but among those we don't know to what extent or if she can use all of them to begin with.
Yes and I am specifically talking about those right there. Without Sayaka having demonstrated actually doing these we can't assume she's capable of using a any specific one.
WoG said she can use magic to a degree but among those we don't know to what extent or if she can use all of them to begin with.
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