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Why was Sora upgraded to Solar System level?
- Thread starter Zevind
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Well, I think that he was scaled to KH Zeus' multiple-solar system moving feat.
Of course, given our new rules regarding this, he may have to be rescaled even higher, but personally I consider it to likely be an outlier, as I think that Xemnas' Kingdom Hearts feat was calculated at Large Star level.
I will ask The Everlasting and CrossverseCrisis.
Of course, given our new rules regarding this, he may have to be rescaled even higher, but personally I consider it to likely be an outlier, as I think that Xemnas' Kingdom Hearts feat was calculated at Large Star level.
I will ask The Everlasting and CrossverseCrisis.
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It comes from Zeus' feat being casual at worst and effortless at best, and how Kingdom Hearts is an artifact far above Zeus in power.
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Yes, but according to our new rules (as soon as DontTalk has had the time to modify the page, as we agreed on in the staff thread) we would have to upgrade Sora to 4-A based on the constellation feat.
Given that the actual KH feat was calculated at High 4-C (if I remember correctly), and is supposed to be above Zeus in power, as you say, I think that the star-moving must either be considered as an outlier, hax, or both in combination.
Given that the actual KH feat was calculated at High 4-C (if I remember correctly), and is supposed to be above Zeus in power, as you say, I think that the star-moving must either be considered as an outlier, hax, or both in combination.
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I kinda agree with Ant here.
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We had a thread about this a while back that was made here regarding this. It's basically as what Everlasting said, really. While Ant's right in that KH Zeus's feat was about High 4-C (high 4-C+ to be exact), Everlasting noted to me that it was a very casually feat (kind of like Zeus from the Disney movie), and that KH itself is supposed to be far superior to it given it's importance to the series and all that.
So just what Everlasting said but if you need more info, you can look into the thread that got the series upgraded above that i provided.
So just what Everlasting said but if you need more info, you can look into the thread that got the series upgraded above that i provided.
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Well, the point is that we will have a conflict between the calculated Kingdom Hearts feat, at High 4-C, and Zeus' 4-A feat, which is drastically higher.
I really like the KH games, but I would rather go with a calculation than an approximation. Sora is powerful, but not to a Multi-Solar System level degree.
I really like the KH games, but I would rather go with a calculation than an approximation. Sora is powerful, but not to a Multi-Solar System level degree.
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I like it too, Ant. But i don't want them to go higher than 4-A. That's just a bit over the top. And Ever had talked to Perp and Reppu on this and both of them agreed that 4-B fitted them better. Hell Ever said that them being 4-B is of a conservative low end boost which i would prefer over what COULD get them any higher to.
Anyways, that's just as what Ever and Perp had came up with really...
Anyways, that's just as what Ever and Perp had came up with really...
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Yes, but the point is that our new rules page that DontTalk wrote will say that this is a 4-A type of feat, so we either have to accept that scale, or disregard it as an outlier, and scale from the KH feat instead.
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Fair enough point. Though i want to see what Ever thinks of this anyways. I'm fine either way of having them as High 4-C back or keep as is, just want to know what he thinks...
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Oh boy....fine, i'll get him to here then as well...
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Again, and despite the value of what KH got in comparison to Zeus, KH is treated as being superior to Zeus himself.
Pachi, do you not understand what i've told you of this a few times in the past by now? Seriously, idek need Ever to confirm this for me. Hell even if the verse here was still High 4-C, KH would be rated at least higher than Zeus (likely while within the tier) due to being more important and being more powerful than what Zeus could ever accomplish...
Pachi, do you not understand what i've told you of this a few times in the past by now? Seriously, idek need Ever to confirm this for me. Hell even if the verse here was still High 4-C, KH would be rated at least higher than Zeus (likely while within the tier) due to being more important and being more powerful than what Zeus could ever accomplish...
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@Ant
I'm pretty sure the feat is still regarded as High 4-C, looking at the page, namely with this.
I'm pretty sure the feat is still regarded as High 4-C, looking at the page, namely with this.
- If one planet or multiple planets or stars are moved the equivalent Attack Potency is the sum of their GBE. Per default it is assumed that only the stars themselves are used whenever stars are moved in the night sky to form constellations. Usually Stars can be considered to be like our sun and planets to be like earth, as long as no better guess is possible.
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I'm afraid that I can't really add much else. As Cross and Everlasting have stated, Kingdom Hearts is the single most powerful object in the series and thus should be considered to be well above the likes of Zeus, who doesn't even register as a threat to Xehanort.
In addition, all of the showings of Kingdom Hearts thus far are false or incomplete versions of the real thing. It only goes to show that the real thing should be exponentially more powerful.
In addition, all of the showings of Kingdom Hearts thus far are false or incomplete versions of the real thing. It only goes to show that the real thing should be exponentially more powerful.
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Cross , Ever, and Reppuzzan pretty much sumed it up
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May as well take a shot at explaining it myself:
One, the assumption before was that just the ~600 stars themselves were manipulated to create the constellation. This was determined illogical to assume, as, according to KH lore, every single star in the sky is a world of its own, with populated planets and such. Zeus, being a good and kind character in Disney (and thus, Kingdom Hearts) canon (as opposed to his harsher personality in the actual Mythos), would not murder hundreds of populated planets for the sake of celebrating Sora's accomplishment. It's far safer to assume that the planets accompanying these stars, and all the space between (at which point you're talking a whole solar system) was moved along with it.
In other words, he moved ~600 solar systems, not ~600 stars.
Two, on top of this, Xemnas/Xehanort/people on that level are generally considered far above Zeus at the height of their power, so on top of that, even if we're to use the old Large Star level+ value it's quite likely they would just extend into Solar System level regardless.
Then, you stack the two up... yeah. That would be why.
One, the assumption before was that just the ~600 stars themselves were manipulated to create the constellation. This was determined illogical to assume, as, according to KH lore, every single star in the sky is a world of its own, with populated planets and such. Zeus, being a good and kind character in Disney (and thus, Kingdom Hearts) canon (as opposed to his harsher personality in the actual Mythos), would not murder hundreds of populated planets for the sake of celebrating Sora's accomplishment. It's far safer to assume that the planets accompanying these stars, and all the space between (at which point you're talking a whole solar system) was moved along with it.
In other words, he moved ~600 solar systems, not ~600 stars.
Two, on top of this, Xemnas/Xehanort/people on that level are generally considered far above Zeus at the height of their power, so on top of that, even if we're to use the old Large Star level+ value it's quite likely they would just extend into Solar System level regardless.
Then, you stack the two up... yeah. That would be why.
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I believe that the speed was directly tied to AP assumption. When the stars jumped to solar systems, the ship's travel distance, and thus speed, also jumped, with the second one already present in the original calc (I think it was like, 10 million x C or something?) I suppose it wouldn't hurt?
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^To redo Ventu's speed feat?
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Yeah, that one.
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Isnt Goofy rated as Solar System Level? If so, it makes total sense to rate Sora as such for logically being much more powerful.
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^It's not just Goofy. Donald, Maleficent, and even Pete (yes, that guy) are rated as SS level.
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I had a colleague do a calc.
4.3 ly = 4.068 x 10 ^ 16m
4.068 x 10 ^ 16/130 = 312923076923076.9230769230769231, m/s= 1,043,799c
I used Alpha Centauri as a low-end, which is 4.3ly from our solar system, then used the 130 seconds as a timeframe for the Highwind going between worlds which puts them around 1 million c.
Does it count?
4.3 ly = 4.068 x 10 ^ 16m
4.068 x 10 ^ 16/130 = 312923076923076.9230769230769231, m/s= 1,043,799c
I used Alpha Centauri as a low-end, which is 4.3ly from our solar system, then used the 130 seconds as a timeframe for the Highwind going between worlds which puts them around 1 million c.
Does it count?
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What is the calc for the feat, again? The High 4-C one.
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I don't have it on hand, but it can probably be found in Sora's history somewhere.
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Hmm...this is a tough one. Due to the vagueness, it may be best to go with the High 4-C estimate. However, since things like Kingdom Hearts and Sora should be a significant amount above Zeus, so it seems more logical them and things of their level would be within the 4-B range instead of High 4-C.
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@The Everlasting
DontTalk had simply not had the time to adjust the page according to Tivanenk's suggestions yet, but it has been performed now. You can check out the staff board discussion thread for more information.
As I mentioned earlier, according to the new rules, this would rate as Multi-Solar System level, which causes a massive inconsistency with the KH feat, if I remember correctly.
DontTalk had simply not had the time to adjust the page according to Tivanenk's suggestions yet, but it has been performed now. You can check out the staff board discussion thread for more information.
As I mentioned earlier, according to the new rules, this would rate as Multi-Solar System level, which causes a massive inconsistency with the KH feat, if I remember correctly.
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That would make sense.Antvasima said:
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I don't think so it would likely be smart to upgrade the range of Kingdom Hearts the world too multi solar system but not its power what should really matter is the amount of matter it's affecting range should be a whole nother thing we don't know much about how Kingdom Hearts works so it would probably be best to play it safe and upgrade the range rather than the power unless it already has that range I haven't really looked at the page.Antvasima said:
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Given the above, I think so, but let's wait for more input.Antvasima said:
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I am with Azathoth on this.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
I can easily accept 4-B Kingdom Hearts, but not 4-A.
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I'd rather keep 4-B KH as well like Azzy. 4-A, just even to that one tier jump, really does not sit well with me at all.
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