Why is Arceus Omnipresent across the Multiverse?

[Eficiente]

Continuation of this thread, whose question was fundamentally wrong. I was trying to get other questions out of it but some people were thinking that I was asking the same question as the OP in that thread, which lead to confusion and the closure of the thread. There was also find an error in Arceus' profile which I will try to make fix, this being his justification in speed.

As for this question itself, all of the statements I have seen point to him being Omnipresence across the universe, not the multiverse. That said, please don't show me another of those statements to prove that he's Omnipresence across the Multiverse, or if you do so please elaborate about it.

 

[Andytrenom]

>I was trying to get other questions out of it but I didn't count with the power of reading being too hard for some people.

Can you try and not make unnecessary statements like this?

 

[Eficiente]

Sorry for that, just & merely to point out context for those only seeing this thread those words come as a response to other condescending ones.

 

[Andytrenom]

Be that as it may, wording the OP neutrally is always better

 

[QuasiYuri]

The way I see it, our world began when the spirit within people was born.
When that spirit came to be, there followed awareness about the world.
Within the newborn spirit, time and space were intertwined as one.
People and Pokémon, too, were but the same presence.
As I understand it, people and Pokémon shared the spirit and awareness.
They should have understood and accepted each other then.
Because they shared the same spirit, people and Pokémon intermingled.
People took the place of Pokémon, and the opposite also held true.
That interpretation could give us an idea about how our world came to be.
A Pokémon is said to have shaped this world.
Could that Pokémon be the physical form of the original spirit?

 

[Eficiente]

I don't see how that refers to the entirety of the Pokémon multiverse and not just the universe where the statement takes place.

• "Within the newborn spirit"
  • Inside Arceus, who is Omnipresent
• "time and space were intertwined as one", "People and Pokémon, too, were but the same presence", "people and Pokémon shared the spirit and awareness" & "they shared the same spirit"
  • Eveyone was more united before/shared the same "spirit"
• "Could that Pokémon be the physical form of the original spirit?"
  • Original spirit has that name due to existing before everything didn't shared the same "spirit", before everything did shared the same "spirit", and before even time and space were intertwined as one.

So then again, what points to this referring to some original Arceus having avatars across the multiverse and being Omnipresent in it? Why not the same but within the universe? After all, "original spirit" in the context of the text means "original [interpretable concept] to which everything in the universe comes from", all the other spirits are stuff within the universe, not other Arceus avatars.

Btw OP fixed. (Assuming OP stands for Original Post and not Original Poster, I'm not 100% sure.)

 

[Andytrenom]

It does stand for Original Poster, and hence I was asking you to word your very being in a more neutral manner

Thanks

 

[QuasiYuri]

Arceus being omnipresent just accross one single universe doesn't make sense when the CT are omnipresent on a Multiversal scale.

Also, people and pokemon doesn't exist just in one universe, so I don't see why it would refer to one specific universe more than just "everything".

Like, what are even the arguments for Arceus not being omnipresent accross everything in Pokemon?

 

[Eficiente]

I don't see any evidence of the CT being omnipresent on a Multiversal scale. I do, however, see evidence of Giratina being omnipresent on only the Distortion World.

Also, people and pokemon doesn't exist just in one universe, so I don't see why it would refer to one specific universe more than just "everything".

Arceus too doesn't exist just in one universe.

 

[GyroNutz]

At the top of Destiny Tower, there is a statue depicting Arceus, which says 'across time and space... one heart'. This states, in no unclear terms, that Arceus is one sole being across all of time and space.

 

[Eficiente]

Yes, I saw that in the other thread. "Across time and space" doesn't mean the whole multiverse, just one universe.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Palkia, Dialga and Giratina are parts of Arceus, which are basically time and space.

"A Pokémon is said to have shaped this world.
Could that Pokémon be the physical form of the original spirit?
Hmm... The spirit came to be, and from it, time and space were born...
That seems to point to Legendary Dialga, the Pokémon of time, and Palkia, the Pokémon of space...
And they lead back to Arceus, the Pokémon that made them arise."

~Hiker

"Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One."

~Plates

"Legends say that whe Arceus gets on the stage, time, space, and anti-matter mix and create a new world."

"And so Arceus gives birth the god of time Dialga, the god of space Palkia, and the god of anti-matter Giratina."

~Pokémon Mystery Files

"You are... a Pokémon Trainer? I can sense strong power coming from your Poké Ball..."
"I feel a familiar presence... The power of Dialga... Palkia... or could it be Giratina? It's similar, but not quite the same... Have you got time? Can you come to the Sinjoh Ruins with me? Call it a Trainer's intuition. When you and your Pokémon step onto that stage, something will happen."

~Cynthia HG/SS

 

[GyroNutz]

If we take it to mean that Arceus is omnipresent in one universe, this would mean that Arceus should not exist in any other universe due to being bound to one universe, which is contradicted by the fact that every game is a seperate universe and would have its own 'true' Arceus. Which, well, is pretty obviously false.

 

[QuasiYuri]

>Palkia is the master of all parallel dimensions

>Palkia is non-corporeal and is Space accross every parallel dimensions.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Yes, I saw that in the other thread. "Across time and space" doesn't mean the whole multiverse, just one universe.

The range of Arceus in PMD:Sky is at least of several dimensions, bearing in mind that Palkia confirms parallel dimensions and has absolute control of space, the MC is from another dimension if I remember correctly, and Arceus saves an alternative future from being erased from existence.

 

[Eficiente]

Palkia, Dialga and Giratina are parts of Arceus

The evidence of that is correct and should be in his profile, which says the same while showing something else.

 

[GyroNutz]

The range of Arceus in PMD:Sky is at least of several dimensions, bearing in mind that Palkia confirms parallel dimensions and has absolute control of space, the MC is from another dimension if I remember correctly, and Arceus saves an alternative future from being erased from existence.

Pretty sure the MC is just from the future. The game doesn't give any more elaboration about that, unlike in PMD Rescue Team

 

[NeoZex6399]

As I said I don't remember well, but I think the game said it was from the future, yes, but from another dimension, which explains why it was human in the past.

 

[Everything12]

Nope, only the Main Characters from Blue/Red and Gates are from another dimension, its never explained why the Main Character from Time/Darkness/Sky is a human in a world filled with Pokemon.

 

[PaChi2]

So... What proof is there that Palkia, dialga and giratina are parts of The Original One?

 

[TriforcePower1]

 

[Eficiente]

If we take it to mean that Arceus is omnipresent in one universe, this would mean that Arceus should not exist in any other universe due to being bound to one universe, which is contradicted by the fact that every game is a seperate universe and would have its own 'true' Arceus. Which, well, is pretty obviously false.

I should say that I'm not against the idea of him having avatars, the first text shown here proves he has at least one, but why in the whole multiverse and why is the true him omnipresent in it? Once I see the evidence I will search the scans we don't have so we may updade him profile.

Also, the matter doesn't have to be so black or white; It's not if he's not omnipresent in the whole multiverse then he's only omnipresent in one universe, the idea of him being omnipresent in many universes but not the whole multiverse is there.

 

[Eficiente]

>Palkia is the master of all parallel dimensions
>Palkia is non-corporeal and is Space accross every parallel dimensions.

Evidence of the latter please. Not the non-corporeal part, obviously.

The "master of all parallel dimensions" part is vague and apparently false given the descriptions of Palkia I received on the other thread, Palkia made some parallel dimensions, not all of them, so why would he be the master of all of them?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I closed this for a reason. I'll leave it open this time as I don't want to be abusing my power.

 

[NeoZex6399]

The fact that it is directly stated that Palkia controls the boundaries of space basically confirms that Palkia's control and influence reaches all dimensions (with space), besides, Palkia is the only pokémon with the title of master of space and creator of dimension. "Dialga, the mythical Pokémon, and the master of time! ...And the other. Palkia, the mythical Pokémon, and the master of space and dimensions!"

~Cyrus

"This is the pattern that represents Palkia, the master of space and dimensions..."

~Cynthia

"Its total control over the boundaries of space enable it to transport itself to faraway places or even other dimensions."

~Pokedex: HG/SS

"A legendary Pokémon of Sinnoh. It is said that space becomes more stable with Palkia's every breath."

~Pokedex: Platinum

"The second one says this:
The birth of PALKIA.
The creator of parallel dimensions...
Alive, yet not alive...
Everything drifts in space...
To arrive in the same universe.
It is the blessing of PALKIA."

~Ancient statue D/P/Pt

"Space is ever-expanding dimensions...
Our spirits, too, are as space..."

~Mural about Palkia (Celestic Ruins)

"Discover new dimensions with the
Legendary Palkia! The Water- and
Dragon-type Pokémon is ready to rip
through battles with its mighty
Spacial Rend attack!"

~Palkia 2018 Eve

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yes, I saw that in the other thread. "Across time and space" doesn't mean the whole multiverse, just one universe.

No, it means the whole Multiverse because Pokemon is no longer just a single universe. It's a Multiverse now.

Basically, everything within the verse that involves the god tiers doing stuff on a "universal" scale, like creating the verse, is retconned to Multiversal.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Honestly, the multiverse existed long before ORAS mentioned the topic, even in Gen 1 alternative dimensions are mentioned.

In Gen 5 there are blatantly obvious statements.

 

[Everything12]

What was the evidence that Palkia made only some Parallel Dimensions?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

What was the evidence that Palkia made only some Parallel Dimensions?

From what I gathered, literally nothing.

This to me just seems like nitpicking the evidence apart to create ones persona interpretation.

 

[Eficiente]

The fact that it is directly stated that Palkia controls the boundaries of space basically confirms that Palkia's control and influence reaches all dimensions (with space)

No it doesn't, at all, controlling something=/=controlling all of something.

"Palkia, the mythical Pokémon, and the master of space and dimensions!"

"Palkia, the master of space and dimensions..."

"Its total control over the boundaries of space enable it to transport itself to faraway places or even other dimensions."

"The creator of parallel dimensions..."

"Space is ever-expanding dimensions..."

"Discover new dimensions with the
Legendary Palkia!"

It's plural but it doesn't mention all dimensions.

 

[Jackythejack]

its plural but it doesn't mention all dimensions

I'm sorry but this just seems like nitpicking at that point.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Creating the Multiverse is like the very first feat of the CT. So saying this only talk about some dimensions and not all doesn't make a real sense.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I'm sorry but this just seems like nitpicking at that point.

THIS.

If you want to claim Palkia doesnt control all dimensions based off what Neo said, then its your burden of proof to prove that Palkia doesnt.

Otherwise, it does mean it controls all dimensions.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm sorry but this just seems like nitpicking at that point.

^

This

It's entirely nitpicking.

 

[Eficiente]

"Across time and space" doesn't mean the whole multiverse, just one universe.

No, it means the whole Multiverse because Pokemon is no longer just a single universe. It's a Multiverse now.

That's completely inaccurate, by that logic every character who can manipulate time and space in a verse that has a multiverse has a scale in that as big as their multiverse. Each universe has its own time and space, claiming that they alone mean the multiverse as a whole just because there is a multiverse is just nonsense.

 

[NeoZex6399]

I mean, there are dimensions that Palkia has not created, like the Distortion World or Dialga dimension, but these 2 lack space, and it is safe to say that at least 99% of the dimensions have been created by Palkia.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That's completely inaccurate, by that logic every character who can manipulate time and space in a verse that has a multiverse has a scale in that as big as their multiverse. Each universe has its own time and space, claiming that they alone mean the multiverse as a whole just because there is a multiverse is just nonsense.

False Equivalancy.

We arent simply talking about beings who are regular time and space manipulators in a verse. We're talking about beings who create, control and govern the entirety of their verse's cosmology. You can't just nitpick and specifically limit them to only a single scale of their cosmology, especially when we're talking about a verse whos cosmology went through an extradinary retcon in terms of its cosmology size.

 

[Eficiente]

its plural but it doesn't mention all dimensions

I'm sorry but this just seems like nitpicking at that point.

A plural amount of something doesn't mean its totality. If this is nitpicking for you then idk what to tell you, man. This is kind of a fact.

 

[Eficiente]

Creating the Multiverse is like the very first feat of the CT.

Which I'm yet to see.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>A plural amount of something doesnt mean its totality

It does if you cant prove it doesnt mean its totality. Claiming Palkia doesnt control all boundaries of space and dimensions is something that is your burden of proof to provide.

If you can't, we go with the former.