Why doesn't the ETSB scale to Kaguya's normal stats?

[MostPowerfull]

Naruto becoming FTL, was through new information.

ETSO is not the same. Little is known about it. And what is known is that it is a technique that uses the chakra of several people and that it takes time to grow and explode, besides being indicated that it can be created only in the Main Dimension, which indicates preparation.

So, the reason is obvious and it does not scale your normal stats. At most, you could argue something like this for a kind of "Prime" key from Kaguya, but still, having an amount of energy x, does not mean AP and Kakashi in the classic itself, make that explicit.

Therefore, there is nothing to be added here.

Additionally... I do not think it is correct to put a rule on ESTO, but I think that putting the threads that explain why it does not scale to its normal attributes, are great.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

"besides being indicated that it can be created only in the Main Dimension, which indicates preparation."

What? When was this indicated? She just made it as a last ditch attempt to kill Naruto and Sasuke because she was getting her ass beat. I don't remember any such statement. She didn't really prepare for it either, her chakra became destabilised and when it stabilised she just created it [ and no she doesn't need the chakra of the shinobi because they wouldn't even make up a portion if half of the nine tails can amp the entire shinobi alliance by three times the chakra of Kakashi, a kage level ninja].

She merely outputted a ton of her chakra, adding all chakra natures including Ying and Yang to create a gigantic Truth Seeker Orb. This is almost undeniable because it is her chakra. Whether you want to make a "Prime" key or add it to the weakened Kaguya we saw against Naruto and co doesn't matter.

The question that should be asked here is "Can Kaguya output a level of chakra comparable to the ETSO in her regular attacks or a level of chakra that can at least somewhat scale to her ETSO output".

 

[MostPowerfull]

It is literally said that, within the Main Dimension, it allows it to use the prisoners' chakra within the IT to create this technique. And as I said... Quantity of chakra and AP are not related.
And no... The technique clearly used a massive amount of chakra and was still growing, until it reached its full power.
This is still preparation, "sufficient time, resources and conditions".

No, she used the prisoners' chakra within the IT.
Therefore, it was not her chakra or at least, not what she had.

It is not a question.
It cannot do this, because the technique has demanded things beyond its natural capacity.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@Emperor;

I agree.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

When is this said? Anywhere in the manga? It doesn't need preparation to be created is what I meant. It obviously needs time to expand. Yes I know it takes a ton of chakra...which I what I said. I didn't say quantity of chakra = AP.

As I said that isn't even a significant portion of her chakra so that doesn't matter.

It is a question which needs to be answered with discussion not just one user making a judgement.

 

[MostPowerfull]

Zetsu's explanation is explicit. Or even Databook too.
Being created doesn't really matter, its effects are what matters.
So ... what is your information about the Kurama chakra that increases Kakashi's power by 3x? It is worthless in this context.

But it was necessary for its creation. This matters.

No. If she could exercise the same AP, this technique would not be necessary. This is logical.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Do you have a scan of the databook?

[All Zetsu says is from the root time-space domain she can extract chakra directly from the Shinobi Alliance. Then he says after that the biju aka her chakra has stabilised and now she has produced a gigantic Truth Seeker Orb. As far as I'm concerned there's no implication she can only produce it in her time-space.]

There's no statement or implication she needs the alliances chakra to produce it. If anything Zetsu was just commenting on how she can continue fighting because she can continually draw chakra. So what I said still stands.

I kind of agree with you here because shinobi have special attacks like Kakashi's concentrating a high proportion of his chakra into his hand for Raikiri. Though arguments can still be made for character somewhat physically scaling to their attacks, like Sasuke using Chidori on himself to disarm Deidara's bombs.

 

[NotCensored]

Naruto becoming FTL, was through new information.

Theres already way more FTL feats than just the one that got accept and they're way more consistent to boot, the only reason they accepted this one is that it was so blantant that they couldn't jump through any hoops to disprove it

ETSO is not the same. Little is known about it. And what is known is that it is a technique that uses the chakra of several people

Several people that are literally provably fodder to Bijuu Mode Naruto let alone Kaguya....

and that it takes time to grow and explode,

<insert any charge up attack in fiction here> probably even several of them that you could find of VsB

besides being indicated that it can be created only in the Main Dimension, which indicates preparation.

You're ignoring the context for that she only needs to be in the Main Dimension to absorb chakra from the God Tree not to make ETSO and she only needed that chakra cause she was fatigued from dimension hopping

So, the reason is obvious and it does not scale your normal stats.

Its made by her chakra it scales to her stats as literally everything else does in the entire series

At most, you could argue something like this for a kind of "Prime" key from Kaguya, but still, having an amount of energy x, does not mean AP and Kakashi in the classic itself, make that explicit.

Its literally destroying the dimension AND remaking it at the same time it scales to her AP quite blantantly and explictly

Therefore, there is nothing to be added here.

ETSO is very important for scaling the God Tiers in the New Era people aren't going to be satisfied with "It just doesn't scale to her other stats OK?!" especially when most of the arguments brought up in favour of it not scaling to her are promptly met with solid counter arguments

Additionally... I do not think it is correct to put a rule on ESTO,

Argee this is a debate platform not letting people disscussion a particular feat because "they're tired of debunking it" rubs me the wrong way

but I think that putting the threads that explain why it does not scale to its normal attributes, are great.

Better than blocking discussion cause a couple of staff members don't like the argument

It is literally said that, within the Main Dimension, it allows it to use the prisoners' chakra within the IT to create this technique.

thats not what it says at all no where in the Jutsu's description does it state that the Shinobi's chakra is required for Kaguya to make the technique

Ninjutsu, Kekkei Mora - Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball
No rank, all ranges, offensive
Users: Kaguya Otsutsuki

Enclosing the power of all of creation, a chaos invoking jet black orb

Taking in the chakra of the shinobi that were captured in the Shinju, a maximized "Truth-Seeking Ball". It's the same as the black orbs on Naruto's back after he used the Six Paths Sage Mode, however, their size is not comparable. Taking in all chakra natures and yin and yang at once, it hides within the power to let the world come to naught....!!

Ô¼å Taking in all natures of chakra, it grows into an enormous mass. A huge ball of chaos that even reshapes the world!

No, she used the prisoners' chakra within the IT. Therefore, it was not her chakra or at least, not what she had.

She was fatigued and the Shinobi are provably nothing to her

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

For the chakra scaling to statistics arguments. Are we really sure we can make that?

I'd say the most significant example is Naruto and Kakashi.

Kakashi stated Naruto had four times the chakra capacity yet when Naruto first came back and they fought Naruto could just stomp Kakashi. Kakashi has skill and varying jutsu but do we really believe Naruto is physically stronger early P2?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

A lot of characters scale to their Jutsu like Sasuke's chidori or CT, Bijudamas and Rasenshuriken for Naruto, and CT for Hagoromo etc... Kaguya is possibly the only one being excluded from this trend for some reason.

 

[MostPowerfull]

I'm on the cell. But a quick Google search solves the problem.

That is, thanks to bringing together everyone's chakra, including hers, she manages to create this technique, within her domain.
Additionally, we see their chakra being absorbed by ESTO.
So, no ... This is literally ignoring what the manga said. If it were not necessary for her to be in the Main Dimension and use the prisoners' chakra to create the ETSO, this would not be connected.

Some yes, others not.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

That is a good point. I remember when Kurama fought Naruto, Eight Tails was able to grab Kurama's Biju Bomb with zero difficulty. Eight Tails has tanked his own bijudama.

Sasuke's Chidori is valid.

I don't know about Rasenshuriken for Naruto though.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I'm on the cell. But a quick Google search solves the problem.

That is, thanks to bringing together everyone's chakra, including hers, she manages to create this technique, within her domain.
Additionally, we see their chakra being absorbed by ESTO.
So, no ... This is literally ignoring what the manga said. If it were not necessary for her to be in the Main Dimension and use the prisoners' chakra to create the ETSO, this would not be connected.

Some yes, others not.

Where is this stated? Because I just demonstrated Zetsu does not state this. Seems like you're just using visuals and a statement of Zetsu saying "in this main dimension she can absorb the victims' chakra" to extrapolate that when it's not implied or stated.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Rasenshuriken was only ever considered too dangerous to use when it was first created, later on Naruto mastered it and using it became really common. Not to mention many comparable characters tanked it such as the third Raikage for example.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Censored

• All are new information. Therefore, this rule no longer applies.

• And?

• Nope.

• Used to create ETSO.

• Nope.

• With ETSO, not natural stats.

• No, it is just the opposite. The technique exceeds its natural characteristics. And all arguments ignore what is being said and what would be unnecessary.

• Ok.

• It literally says that she needs to gather the Shinju chakra, from everyone who is trapped in the IT. You just proved yourself necessary for your creation, so I have nothing more to declare. To say that I am extrapolating, when the description of the technique, both by Databook and by statements, is clear, does not change anything.

So, given points, I'm just going to ignore that now.

• No proof

 

[MostPowerfull]

Literally, we have most characters using their own energy for this.

ETSO needs it to absorb the chakra of others, to be in a special dimension for that and it takes time to grow, reach its maximum potential and explode (probably).

Completely and arguably different points.

 

[Sera_EX]

The ETSB was created from the chakra Kaguya absorbed from the shinobi alliance connected to the Shinju iirc.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Literally, we have most characters using their own energy for this.

ETSO needs it to absorb the chakra of others, to be in a special dimension for that and it takes time to grow, reach its maximum potential and explode (probably).

Completely and arguably different points.

Well by that logic Prime Kaguya should without a doubt scale to it since all the chakra was hers to begin with.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Not once is the word "need" used. The databook just explains HOW she did it. Yes she did use their chakra, along with her own, that is a fact. As we explained that doesn't matter, it is demonstrably insignificant to her.

 

[NotCensored]

For the chakra scaling to statistics arguments. Are we really sure we can make that?
I'd say the most significant example is Naruto and Kakashi.

Kakashi stated Naruto had four times the chakra capacity yet when Naruto first came back and they fought Naruto could just stomp Kakashi. Kakashi has skill and varying jutsu but do we really believe Naruto is physically stronger early P2?

A couple arguments can be made for that tbh

1) Chakra Control, Early Part 2 Naruto isn't using his Chakra as efficently as Kakashi is thereby nullifying the advantage he has in Chakra amount meaning he's just burning Chakra and only doing a tenth etc. of what he could do with perfect control

2) The type of Chakra could be more important when it comes to this as we have multiple examples of having more Bijuu/ Six Paths Chakra = more power and speed, so that rule my just not apply to regular Chakra at all and be exclusive to the former two

and 3) Chakra is directly linked to your Physical stats being made up of 50% Physical Energy from your cells etc. Kakashi makes statements supporting this in his novel such as Shinobi entering "Battle Mode" with chakra etc.so Chakra should be scaling to statistics somewhat regardless

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Not once is the word "need" used. The databook just explains HOW she did it. Yes she did use their chakra, along with her own, that is a fact. As we explained that doesn't matter, it is demonstrably insignificant to her.

It's demonstrably insignificant to Naruto, let alone Kaguya who's above the Ten tails and Madara.

 

[Sera_EX]

That's not how it works. The chakra was from Hagoromo spread to the ancient shinobi. Kaguya claims it's hers because she is the first to have chakra. But it's not like when she conceived Hago and Hamu that they stole anything from her, they just inherited the ability to produce chakra. That's delusion on her part.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Uchiha

Quantity of chakra is not AP. Having all the chakra for you doesn't mean much. We would need feats for that.

However, in a discussion, it could possibly be differentiated, since she needed to create her dimensions, without needing their chakra to create the ETSO or her dimensions.

As for your Prime status, I don't know what to think and I'm neutral.

 

[NotCensored]

All are new information. Therefore, this rule no longer applies.

Feats from earlier to mid war arc and 4th databook translations aren't really new they've been known about for the better part of 2 or so years

• And?

Just cause a weakened fatigued Kaguya needs the fodder amount of Chakra from those Shinobi to create ETSO does not mean a non-weakened Kaguya that hasn't been fatigued from dimension hopping needs it basic logical requiring evidence for the contrary

• Nope.

Yes.

• Used to create ETSO.

You're argument has already dismantled mate by the my literal first post try harder

• Nope.

Yes

• With ETSO, not natural stats.

ETSO scales to her stats though as does every attack in the franchise

• No, it is just the opposite. The technique exceeds its natural characteristics.

No it really isn't its literally be definition and description a big TSO thats it she scales to her TSO that she made shocker

And all arguments ignore what is being said and what would be unnecessary.

All arguments disprove the Shinobi Alliance nonsense you mean? and no i haven't ignored a single thing you've brought up

• Ok.

Fine.

• It literally says that she needs to gather the Shinju chakra, from everyone who is trapped in the IT.

1) Where is the word "NEED" in the translation i showed you? go on I'll wait and 2) not every only the Shinobi and the largest Shinobi force on the planet isn't anything to Naruto so again it would by extention be nothing to a non-weakened Kaguya

You just proved yourself necessary for your creation,

What came first the chicken or the egg? ƒæÇ

But in all seriousness no i didn't prove that the shinobi are necessary for ETSO's creation it just says she utilized them not that they're necessary

so I have nothing more to declare.

All you've done is declare anyway not actually prove

To say that I am extrapolating,

But you are extrapolating lol

'when the description of the technique,'both by Databook and by statements,

Which says nothing about her NEEDING that chakra to preform the technique like you've stated

and btw Zetsu's statement also doesn't do you any favours either

'is clear, 'does not change anything.

Clearly not if you've misread its Databook Entry and Zetsu's Statement

So, given points, I'm just going to ignore that now.

Consider thats basically what you were already doing anyway with this post carry on

• No proof

Literally stated in the manga F

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Censored

• Most were Outliers, and the rule was almost specifically designed to avoid Ranton Kouga and Night Guy. The only one that had new arguments, information and consequently approved was Tenso no Jutsu.

• Amount of chakra = / = AP. She still needs the prisoners' chakra in IT. Anything beyond that is headcanon.

• No.

• Nope.

• Still excedding her natural stats.

• You're still wrong FRA.

• You can try to deny the ability description as much as you like with semantics. This is not going to change much.

• You literally proved that you are wrong and that the technique requires the chakra of others. I have nothing to do with what Kishimoto says. Protest him, not me.

• The technique description in both canons says that it uses and needs their chakra to form the technique. What you understand or protest, I don't care.

• Having used too much chakra and being tired are different things. Literally, Kaguya expresses no sign of fatigue.

That said, I'm just going to ignore it. The points were given and it seems to me that I'm just going in circles, so I'm just going to wait for Antvasima to close it. No new information was given.

 

[NotCensored]

Most were Outliers,

Several diferent feats all from mid tier characters are outliers amazing its almost as if you don't know what an outlier is to begin with

and the rule was almost specifically designed to avoid Ranton Kouga and Night Guy.

One is legitmately Lightspeed and the other is bare minimum 90%+ SoL

The only one that had new arguments, information and consequently approved was Tenso no Jutsu.

Mifune has an attack literally called a Beam of Light in the manga that is also stated to be Light Speed in the Databook, Laser Circus is literally stated to be made up of literal Light Rays and was reacted to by Kinkaku and Ginkaku oh and its a Storm Release technique like Light Fang, Guy and Rock Lee intercepted Haku midtransport between mirrors which is also stated to be Light Speed, Itachi's Tsukiyomi is stated to be beyond the speed of light in the databook and has a 3.3x SoL calc to prove it, Madara also reacted to and blocked Laser Circus and theres an argument that he reacted to the Heavenly Transfer Technique before it finished as well but thats really just icing on the cake compared to the rest of them and isn't even need.

Any argument of "outlier" is an asspull at best

Amount of chakra = / = AP.

Do you want me to bring up the countless scans of people with more Bijuu or Six Paths Chakra getting stronger from it? is that what you want cause i can do it?

She still needs the prisoners' chakra in IT.

WHERE IS THE WORD NEEDS?

Anything beyond that is headcanon.

You mean sound argumentation that debunks you?

No.

Yes

• Nope.

Yes

• Still excedding her natural stats.

Even if her normal attacks were 10,000x weaker she'd still have Star Level AP with them so it doesn't matter if its her strongest attack oof

• You're still wrong FRA.

Except you can't prove me wrong which is the hilarious part

'• You can try to deny the ability description as much as you like with semantics.'This is not going to change much.

I'm not denying the description you loon theres no semantics you're twisting the actual description to fit your agenda the word "need" or any such similar synonym isn't in that description to start with so if anything you're the one deny it sorry to burst your bubble

• You literally proved that you are wrong and that the technique requires the chakra of others.

You literally proved you are incapable of comprehend what that sentence actually says

I have nothing to do with what Kishimoto says. Protest him, not me.

I don't have to protest Kishimoto on this because he never says what your arguing to begin with.

• The technique description in both canons says that it uses and needs their chakra to form the technique.

The description as you keep liking to point out only says it ultilizes they're energy not that it needs their energy to be used and of course its going to state the Shinobi Alliance's chakra was used BECAUSE IT WAS and BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY TIME ITS BEEN USED the fact you can't grasp this is insane

What you understand or protest, I don't care.

Other way around buddy if anything its you not understanding the basic premise of the argument to begin with

• Having used too much chakra and being tired are different things. Literally, Kaguya expresses no sign of fatigue.

Using too much chakra makes you tired Circa Land of Waves Arc and even if she's not tired she's still low on chakra as you've conceded to meaning she needs more chakra hmm if only there was a convient way to get more

That said, I'm just going to ignore it.

Again what you've been doing this entire time

The points were given and it seems to me that I'm just going in circles,

We aren't going in circle you're attempting to stonewall me and have failed to not only rebuttal my counter but even meet burden of rejoinder as well so it can't be a circle because the debate never even started to begin with

so I'm just going to wait for Antvasima to close it.

VsB in a nutshell smh

No new information was given.

like we need it when the existing info is more than enough to debunk the claims being made against it

 

[Lop222]

But it's not like when she conceived Hago and Hamu that they stole anything from her, they just inherited the ability to produce chakra. That's delusion on her part.

It cleary stated that Kaguya shared her chakra with her sons:



so back in her prime she did had all her chakra,


and also @MostPowerfull zetsu cleary stated that chakra makes Kaguya stronger and faster

I geuss this only goes for her since shes the prognetor of chakra

 

[NotCensored]

More powerful than her fatigued self

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Censored

Me and other supporters have already answered that. Nothing was added and this remains disproved and debunked. The technique itself belies this, no matter how much you try to distort it. And as half of your points are ignorance and headcanon, I will ignore this for now.

No one will accept this. Deal with it!

@Lop

Your chakra control can make you faster or stronger. Don't just have it.

If I am not mistaken, it is one of the fundamental points of the chakra. Knowing how to use it as much as possible, without wasting it (I think it was said by Kakashi/Ebisu/Jiraiya in Classic) and with maximum efficiency. I think it's one of the reasons that all Ninjas have Status Amplification in their profiles. More chakra itself, just promotes more resistance.

 

[NotCensored]

Me and other supporters have already answered that.

Except you actually haven't

Nothing was added and this remains disproved and debunked.

Then you don't know what power cliffing is nor what an outlier is either.

'The technique itself belies this,' no matter how much you try to distort it.

The cognitive dissonance you displayed in the past few hours has honestly given me a headache, the person distorting the meaning is you me and another user have already pointed this out quite easily i might add still waiting for where the supposed statement of her needing their chakra is btw.

And as half of your points are ignorance and headcanon,

The only ignornant person here is you the person who hasn't rebuttaled a single counter argument to his claims gets called out on his false claims and disproven and then just continues to spout the same argument i already addressed over and over again insisting that he's right but won't actually face the arguments presented to him to prove it.

Again the cognitive dissonance smh and there hasn't been a single bit of "headcanon" in my entire premise I've provided evidence and a reason for every one of my claims along with rebutting all of your attempted counters, meaning not only have i met burden of rejoinder but also burden of proof a courtesy you haven't extended to me

No one will accept this.

Several people in this thread already do

Deal with it!

Been dealing with it since Kaguya's Dimension got scaled to Massively Large Star in size so I'm already ahead of you on that one

 

[MostPowerfull]

No. Basically, you ignored that Kaguya needs to use people's chakra, which is what she DID and how it is described. This is not arguable and anything else, Occam's Razor.

But very well. I think you will be disappointed and hurt ego when this is closed and rejected, based on past debunks. Good night!

 

[Padaruyos]

No. Basically, you ignored that Kaguya needs to use people's chakra, which is what she DID and how it is described.

And you apparently ignored that the chakra Kaguya absorbed is insignificant compared to what she already has.

BM Naruto buffed the entire shinobi alliance by 3x and still had a ton of chakra left.

Chakra wise:

BM Naruto < BSM Naruto << Juubi < Juubito << Juubidara <<<< Kaguya.

Also is there a statement that Kaguya NEEDS to absorb other Chakra?

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Padaruyos A little bit of the "fodders" chakra, they were able to practically blow Madara, with a lot of energy. These "fodders" chakra don't even contain 1% of their power, but they managed to make it more powerful and faster. I didn't think it needed to be said, because it was too hypocritical to be quoted.

Quantity of Energy /=/ AP. Unfollowing this! I will preserve my sanity.

 

[Padaruyos]

Quantity of Energy = AP in case of Kaguya, there's a scan from @Lop222 that states Kaguya becomes stronger and faster the more energy she absorbs.

It's not even exclusive to Kaguya.

Example:

Rasengan + More Chakra = Bigger Rasengan = Higher AP

Bijuudama + More Chakra + Sage Chakra = More powerful Bijuudama = Higher AP and can affect Six Path Power Users.

 

[NotCensored]

No. Basically, you ignored that Kaguya needs to use people's chakra,

Where is the word NEED! TELL ME! I NEED TO KNOW!

which is what she DID and how it is described.

I've already explained this too you just cause thats what she did in that particular instance does not mean the technique REQUIRES it, I've stated this several times and you haven't even attempted a rebuttal lol you've already lost this "debate" 3 posts ago as you again have failed to meet burden of rejoinder/ proof

This is not arguable and anything else, Occam's Razor.

Occam's Razor doesn't even work cause I'm not making more assumptions than you are lol

'But very well.' I think you will be disappointed and hurt ego when this is closed and rejected,

Typical VsB mentality smh "Why bother actually debating just wait for the staff to close the thread lmao" and FYI i don't care if it gets rejected in the least its happen and it will happen again until the mods realize "hey these characters that can create and destroy Stars should be Star Level!"

based on past debunks.

You mean the nonexistent debunk I've been systemtically shutting down for the past couple hours?

Good night!

Thank you have a nice night!

 

[Nehz_XZX]

No. Basically, you ignored that Kaguya needs to use people's chakra, which is what she DID and how it is described. This is not arguable and anything else, Occam's Razor.

But very well. I think you will be disappointed and hurt ego when this is closed and rejected, based on past debunks. Good night!

You should seriously explain "need". You haven't been addressing it at all.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

@Padaruyos

That seems pretty rude to me.

 

[Metalija]

Amount of chakra = AP, at least when talking about Bijuu chakra or Six paths chakra. There are countless examples of this in the series, like Naruto becoming faster and stronger the more Nine Tails chakra he has, or KCM just being him taking a large amount of Nine Tails chakra. Hell even when talking about normal chakra people with a ton of it are always powerhouses like Kisame, Raikage and Hashirama. I have never seen a weak person in Naruto that has a lot of chakra, the exeption being Naruto who had shitty chakra control for most of the series. Also look at Kakashi, in the war arc he has much more chakra then in the earlier arcs. He is constantly spamming Raikiri and Kamui and guess what? His other stats are much higher than before aswell, like his AP and speed. So yeah there are more arguments in favor of Chakra = AP then there are against, and even if you think that regular chakra doesn't scale to AP, the Bijuu chakra does 100%.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Also Naruto wasn't strong in the beginning because Kurama intervened with his chakra control and hindered his development for a long time, which is why he couldn't even perform the clone technique. Even Sakura had better chakra control than him(though she's somewhat exceptional in this area anyway). But yea Chakra=AP in most if not all cases. Also why would the series go out of it's way to emphasize the amount of chakra characters had if it didn't matter, that's just a silly notion tbh.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Uchiha

Chakra control its what hold your AP. Not only quantity of chakra. Naruto not got stronger only because he had more chakra.

And I dont need to prove she's need. If wont be necessary, npt will be stated. i dont have to prove the negative, your have to prove doesnt need, when is stated and showed she need and used. And saying that is insignificant, Madara's laugh.