Whats the difference between Social Influencing and Mind Manipulation

[Excaliburhuman]

I was looking at Weather Reports profile and wondering why his snail thing is counted as Social Influencing and not Mind Manip. I looked at the revision and it seems to because he us subliminal messaging. If that is the case wouldn't Ryota Mitarai from danganronpa (I'm using him as a example because he is the only one I can think of of the top of my head with an ability similar to what I am trying to convey also qualify?

Overall, when it comes to messing with people's brain through sensary tricks such as subliminal messaging, where is the line between Social Influencing and Mind Manip.

 

[Antoniofer]

Technically what HW does should qualify as Hypnosis, not Social Influencing.

The difference is that Social Influencing is a realistic power, a skill used to persuade, intimidate, induce belief, etc; Mind or Emotional Manipulation straight up alter ones state of mind. Social Influencing can't force someone to act out of character.

 

[YungManzi]

Hmm...

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Social Influencing = Mundane skill

Mind Manipulation = Supernatural skill or more often, supernatural power

Anything that goes beyond what should be possibly IRL should be Mind Manip

Ergo, Weather Reports is complete bullshit.

 

[Excaliburhuman]

Thanks for answering. I was confused because what WR does didn't fit what I thought what social influencing is.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Currently, Heavy Weather's ability is rated as Social Influencing because the logic behind it's mechanics are stated to be such. Pucci likened Heavy Weather's ability to subliminal messaging using a single frame of food put into every few frames of a movie, causing people to go hungry and buy food from the concierge.

It can't be mind manipulation because if it was, we're saying that subliminal messaging through mundane means = mind manipulation which I feel is wrong.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

'''Subliminal messaging does not make people act like snails'''

 

[DontTalkDT]

Pretty sure we list mind manip via drugs or other classical hypnosis as mind manip as well. At very high degrees the line between social influencing and mind manip becomes somewhat woolly, but I would say it's mind manip via uncommon mechanism more than social influencing.

I mean, it does straight up overwrite free will doesn't it?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I'd say as long as there is some form of reason behind it its social influencing.

So exaggerated is fine. But if it goes like "dude stands there and people just kill themselves" it's just plain mind hax.

 

[Antoniofer]

Or perhaps what HW does is an straight exaggeration of what Pucci said, one thing is showing food to people and then they want to eat that kind of food, but showing people turning into snail on tv wouldn't never make people believe they are snail.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"So exaggerated is fine."

No it's not. It's the exact same bullshit Ikki had (or has, idk anymore) on his profile. Doing irrealistic bullshit using exagerated version of IRL skills is a power. It doesn't give you a free pass to ignore all resistances or anything because "it's just skill."

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Had.

But that's what social influencing is. It is not stopped by resistance. Depending on the type some can literally be stopped by being hardheaded.

It being exaggerated within reason doesn't break what it is. This is fiction.

 

[Antoniofer]

Be reasonable, one character can do so much before breaking the laws of physics, even if a little; if that happens, the skill stop being realistic and turns into a supernatural power.

 

[DontTalkDT]

No it's not. It's the exact same bullshit Ikki had (or has, idk anymore) on his profile. Doing irrealistic bullshit using exagerated version of IRL skills is a power. It doesn't give you a free pass to ignore all resistances or anything because "it's just skill."

I mean, whether its listed as mind manip or social influencing doesn't technically influence resistance, since the mechanism is what really matters for that.

 

[Wokistan]

Wouldn't beaming information directly into someone's brain be manipulating their mind anyways

 

[DontTalkDT]

From what I get of the abilities description it isn't beaming information in someones mind, but creates light patters that (naturally) trigger a certain response in humans.


But, to extent on my opinion above, just because the effect on the mind isn't supernatural that doesn't mean it's social influencing. Scientifically possible brainwashing can also be mind manip. If a character uses EM waves to shut down certain brain regions that might be scientifically possible, but still mind manip. In regards to non-supernatural ways to influence the mind I personally would draw the line between social influencing and mind manip at the point where free will is just completly overwritten, instead of just influencing decisions.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I'm fine with whatever we end up giving Heavy Weather, so long as we keep these standards consistent with regards to other characters on the site.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Imagine convincing people to turn into snails

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Be reasonable, one character can do so much before breaking the laws of physics, even if a little; if that happens, the skill stop being realistic and turns into a supernatural power.

Im more on the idea that, its mechanics that make a technique what it is rather than the effect. So as long as its still reasonable a bit of exaggeration would be fine.

Because, yes it might turn into a supernatural power, but it would still be supernatural social influencing.