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What warranted an upgrade to 7-A for Sanji and Zoro?

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ScarletFirefly

ScarletFirefly

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Ok so the other day or so, Sanji and Zoro got upgraded to 7-A. However the link to the blog used to apply this upgrade , namely the Zoro vs Pica battle, resulted in a ¬83 Megaton feat, which is City level+. The blog goes on to explain that said feat was a casual feat from Zoro and he still has another technique he has not shown yet, and here's something I disagree with.

Now considering there were other calcs that were turned down because being casual does not give a tier upgrade, I fail to see how this calc should upgrade Zoro to 7-A. Also having an unseen technique should not, again, warrant a tier jump, a Likely at most.

Which in turn, brings me to the Sanji revision. Since this revision is done on the basis of powerscaling and the prior revision is done on a 'being casual' argument, I again think this revision should not take place. Also another thing justifying the upgrade to Sanji is the fact that he was complimented for his strength by Doflamingo. Since when is this enough to warrant a tier upgrade? Mere words should not be enough for this, and last time I checked, Sanji had an Unknown AP level because he has yet to show any feats and since he supposedly is stronger now and should be close to Zoro, also the complimenting for strength thing.

All in all, I'm requesting that these revisions (and possibly a couple of others resulting from these) be analyzed again and input from several mods/calc members be given to better gauge and analyze said feats and revisions.

Thank you.
 
They are scaled from Lao G. I thought that CinCameron20 would have clarified this in the profile pages?
 
Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff said:
Check this thread where the discussion was held before asking for a revision https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/500852
Click to expand...
I did check out the other thread but was unable to comment there because the thread was locked. Considering these are major revisions for several OP characters, it would be best if the thread was highlighted and to wait for several other members to give their opinion before applying said upgrade.

Diamante: 7-A (should be at least as strong as Base Lao G. He was also in close proximity to Sabo's Hiken, which yielded 78 MT of Tnt, and was unscathed.)
Disagreed. There is no proof supporting the claim that Diamante should be at least as strong as Lao G. Having similar ranks is not solid proof. Also being in the proximity to a City level+ feat and being unscathed should absolutely not warrant a 7-A upgrade. The wikia operates on the assumption that the feats ignore the principle of conservation of energy, therefore being in proximity to a City level+ feat should be of little importance, let alone warrant a tier jump.

Pica: 7-A (Capable of marching around with a large mass of stone surrounding him--being over 5 kilometers tall via scaling to King's plateau, and power-scaling to Diamante and Lao G.)
Disagreed. Powerscaling is fine but powerscaling in several stages would lead to incorrect indexing, especially when there are little to no feats backing said powerscaling.

Trebol: 7-A (Via scaling to Diamante, Pica, and Vergo, as he should be comparable to them).
See above.

Zoro and Sanji: See the OP.
 
Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff said:
^You should really wait for oppsoing agruments before agreeing with someone else......
Click to expand...
In general if we were to go with this logic, would any valid revision be accepted? If no one has any opposing arguments to it because it's correct in their view, no one would agree with it since there hasn't been any counterarguments yet => The revision is not accepted because it doesn't have enough votes in favor.
 
you never now dragon, i personally would of waited until people with some counters (even if the are addresed, there some that weren't) came and presented there agrument....agreeing with someone right of the bat is not always the way to go ya know....
 
ScarletFirefly said:
Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff said:
^You should really wait for oppsoing agruments before agreeing with someone else......
Click to expand...
In general if we were to go with this logic, would any valid revision be accepted? If no one has any opposing arguments to it because it's correct in their view, no one would agree with it since there hasn't been any counterarguments yet => The revision is not accepted because it doesn't have enough votes in favor.
Click to expand...

That's why i'm saying to wait for any oppsoing agruments, becasue you never now you might if missed something in your op, if no one had a oppsoing agrument then fine, but we do have a grace period just in case somebody does have one...
 
I personally find it extremely unlikely that the top 3 executives would be much weaker than one of their underlings.
 
Antvasima said:
I personally find it extremely unlikely that the top 3 executives would be much weaker than one of their underlings.
Click to expand...
Much weaker? Maybe, maybe not. Just as strong? Who knows. This is why I suggested the "Possibly" or "Likely" option. It's the safest option and imo would be better to wait for actual feats.
 
Also another point I'd like to bring to the discussion, why would Pica get upgraded to 7-A AP/Dura when he got manhandled by a City level+ feat?
 
Inconsistency, and the fact that his statue may have been harder than calculated.
 
7-A Zoro and Sanji comes from scaling to the Top executives, who scale to Lao G, who was capable of beating Chinjao. Zoro one-shot a haki-clad Pica.

Also, Zoro applied the 80+ megaton feat in base without the use of Asura before he even one-shot Pica. the 7-A Scaling there makes sense for him. Although, this 2nd bit is the one that you guys seem to disagree with, despite Asura drastically increasing his attack power.

Edit: i'll have to read the post since these topics were already brought up.
 
One piece tier right now complete does make sense. for example Chinjao he has trouble to destroy pica hand even with help so how to heck he become tier 7A?

Same with base luffy tier
 
Okay, so the Zoro feat was not being given a 7-A because it was "casual", but because he has yet to utilize Asura, and the fact that the calc itself is still lower than where it should be (missing stone head volume, and i did not scale from to correct position, should be lower, resulting in a higher AP, which would still be City+ regardless, so i didn't include it).

Lao G was given two Keys since I did not believe the top executives could scale to his Battle Preservation Fist. But his AP was still high enough to hurt and stagger Chinjao. the Top Executives should be at least as strong as Lao G's base, otherwise it does not make sense as to why Doflamingo pulled the original executives out of fighting Luffy in the Coliseum and left Diamante alone to do so while the others went to intercept Franky. His fighting capabilities should be highly regarded.

Sanji scales to Zoro, and how could he remain City level if he took a hit from Doflamingo and continued fighting? His attacks were complimented by Doflamingo as being "quite strong". I highly doubt a City level would be so impressive towards someone with Island level durability.

Characters like Gladius also have a confusing tier. Cavendish, who could contend with Chinjao and block attacks from Doflamingo was worried about being in range of his explosives, which is why i listed his AP higher, which would increase his durability since he can literally stand in his explosions.

If this is still not agreeable, maybe the "likely/possibly" still needs to be included.
 
CinCameron20 said:
Okay, so the Zoro feat was not being given a 7-A because it was "casual", but because he has yet to utilize Asura, and the fact that the calc itself is still lower than where it should be (missing stone head volume, and i did not scale from to correct position, should be lower, resulting in a higher AP, which would still be City+ regardless, so i didn't include it).
Click to expand...

I mentioned this earlier. A yet unrevealed technique would not make character's jump tier. Wouldn't it be more logical to just say At least City level+, likely higher with Asura?

Sanji scales to Zoro, and how could he remain City level if he took a hit from Doflamingo and continued fighting? His attacks were complimented by Doflamingo as being "quite strong". I highly doubt a City level would be so impressive towards someone with Island level durability.

Sanji would've been absolutely trashed by Doffy. The comment that "he's quite strong" would stem mostly from the fact that Doffy expected him to be just trash. This is further cemented by the fact that he evaded Sanji's kick like it was nothing and he took his Diable Jambe barrage kicks without taking even minimal damage and interrupted it mid-execution. Sanji took the Pentachromatic Strings and received heavy damage to it, and he would've been two-shot by Doffy's next attack if it wasn't for Law. Being casually two shotted wouldn't result in a 7-A tier.

EDIT: Also, Omega998 brings up an interesting point. How come that Chinjao had trouble destroying Pica's arm and it also took Elizabello to destroy it? All it takes to destroy Pica is a City level+ feat, and Chinjao who supposedly is 7-A has trouble destroying only his arm?
 
Chinjao is High 7-A, not 7-A. He took hits from Gear 2nd and 3rd Luffy and could match him blow for blow.

Also, why are you trying to say "this must mean Chinjao is weaker than anticipated" when it could be that Pica is stronger than anticipated?

Also, you're drifting VERY far from what happened. Elizabello and Chinjao both shattered Pica's arm like it was nothing before moving onward here is the sca - when both Elizabello and Chinjao struck the arm, you can see that Chinjao was not even utilizing haki. That's all that happened.

Regarding the City+ feat, that's just a support for Zoro being 7-A. Him one-shotting Pica (who in turn should be at LEAST comparable to Lao G) makes him 7-A.

Doflamingo didn't consider Sanji a scrub from the very beginning... he said "oh, here comes a tough one" in all manga translations i've seen (here is one example).

Doflamingo's facial expressions and response to Sanji coming back after "Goshikito" proves that he expected Sanji to have been taken down by his attack
 
@Scarlet - What...? Are you SERIOUSLY using the anime over the manga canon? THIS

ALSO: Pica was not one-shot by a City+ feat... the City+ feat was Zoro slashing the STATUE in half. he LATER one shot pica, which gives him a 7-A rating if we can scale Pica even remotely close to Lao G, who could fight competitively with Chinjao.

Edit (forgive me if i seem aggressive... i'm just dealing with several of these types of convos back to back... slap me later plox)
 
@CinCamero

Fair enough, I did not notice that Chinjao's head was not using armament haki in the scan and I had the idea that he always used haki for that attack. I apologize for that.

Doflamingo didn't consider Sanji a scrub from the very beginning... he said "oh, here comes a tough one" in all manga translations i've seen (here is one example).

As opposed to what, Brook, Nami and Chopper? Sanji is obviously far stronger than them so that sentece would make sense either way. Also as I said earlier I'm basing my argument on the fact that Sanji didn't even scratch Doffy and he in turn would've two shotted him. This is hardly a battle where Sanji is holding his own against him.

Pica was not one-shot by a City+ feat... the City+ feat was Zoro slashing the STATUE in half. he LATER one shot pica

Is there any proof how strong Pica actually is in his base form and how it differs from his Statue form? He wouldn't be using his statue form if it was that much weaker not would he?

EDIT: I will be unable to provide further replies because I have to go to work and even now I'm late lol. I will probably be available again in ~12-14 hours.
 
And tbh since we have Doffy as likely 6-C your comment about Sanji getting 2 shotted negating that tier is inaccurate. iirc Doffy would only need to be 7-A to deal damage to Sanji. But since he's a whole tier step above that its plausible that Sanji could get wrecked.
 
@Scarlet - I mean, Doflamingo did consider him a threat, considering the things he was saying. If Sanji was One-shot by Goshikito, i would not even argue about this fight, but considering he withstood it and was still fighting, he shouldn't be fodder level to Doflamingo. Doflamingo used Parasito to bind Sanji to stop his movements. He was winding up for an Overheat thread to execute Sanji on the spot.

Obviously Doflamingo >>>>> Sanji, but if Sanji remains City level, it makes little sense how Doflamingo could not beat him so much easier.

Even if Sanji's Mountain level, dealing even superficial damage to someone with much higher durability (by like two full tiers) would be a chore.

Of course, this is all mere speculation and looking at our statistics.

Pica was only ever shown fighting against Zoro in his base form. He was also confident that he'd be capable of taking Zoro's attacks even after witnessing his statue being cut to pieces, but that's speculation right there.

Pica and the Top executives scaling to Lao G would affect Zoro, who only has a City+ feat, since he managed to one-shot one of them, who was clad in haki and prepared for the attack. Not much to go off from there. It's powerscaling.

Lao G is listed as 7-A in base since he could harm Chinjao, but we didn't see much of their fight since it was mostly off-panel. He later one-shot Chinjao with his Battle Preservation fist.
 
Also, this is slightly off topic, but keep in mind that the OP world must be much bigger than our planet, so the GBE should be stronger than Earth's... the City+ feat could very easily be much higher, but as I said, that's a topic for another time.
 
@Rex - the gravitational pull of the planet, but we can't fully discuss that here since 1) off topic and 2) we've no confirmation via Oda or Manga of the size of the OP planet
 
Gravitational Binding Energy I assume. That is a pretty interesting topic and I'd like to hear more about it though. For now just monitoring this thread as I'm unable to post arguments due to being on mobile and lollygagging during work is not the greatest idea lol.
 
@Scarlet - I don't have anything else to really argue. It's pretty much powerscaling to Lao G, and using Zoro one-shotting Pica as support for 7-A.

Also, Sanji could fight against Vergo very competitively. Vergo would also scale to Lao G and Pica, especially given his fighting power and that he's Doflamingo's right-hand man.
 
I think that CinCameron20 seems to make sense, but it might be best to insert "Likely" before the statistics of the characters scaled from Lao G.
 
@CinCameron20 Are you willing to perform the changes?
 
Okay. I will unlock Zoro's and Sanji's profiles again.
 
@Scarlet - That's fine, but we could probably try to find the GBE of the OP planet and its gravitational pull. I'm telling you that Zoro's feat will yield a much higher result instead of us using Earth's GBE. Easily Mountain level and potentially even higher.
 
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