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What tier is this? and also possible God (Seekers into the Mystery) upgrade

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Sandman31

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So this is Maya in Hinduism, I'm not gonna use these to upgrade God but I'm going to compare how they match up, since SitM is based on Hinduism, God is Brahma and it also uses the concept of Maya and Atman. I think these stuff in the internet can explain it better than me


Maya
According to the Advaita philosophy, this world we live in, the space as well as time is a projection of your consciousness or your awareness. In fact your mind, your thoughts as well as your physical attributes are just a projection of that consciousness into the state of waking. Advaita Vedanta calls this projection as Maya. Maya creates apparent multiplicity in a universe where only Brahman really exists.

The true meaning of Maya in Sanskrit is illusion or delusion. Advaita Vedanta uses this term to bring forth a point that what we feel as real is not the complete reality. This does not mean that all of us live a life of illusion ― we actually see it, we really live in it. "The world has no existence" really means "The world has no existence-absolute". It only exists relative to our minds. It is perceived by us, by our five senses. That is what is meant by the "no existence" clause. It is a mix of existence and non-existence. This is Maya. It is the projection or manifestation of the Infinite through our finite minds.

Everything that has form, everything that calls up an idea in your mind, is within Maya, for, everything that is bound by the laws of time, space, and causation, is within Maya. And that includes the Vedanta philosophy, the philosophers, everything. Stretch your imagination as far as you can, make them higher and higher, call it infinite or by any other name you please, even that idea is within this Maya. It cannot be otherwise, and the whole of human knowledge is generalization of this Maya, trying to know it as it really is.

Maya in Seekers into the Mystery
All of creation is just a dream and that The Magician/God is just a manifestation inside the dream.Maya is the movie projected by God when he dreamed everything in the depths of his divine imagination. She's the illusio tha prevent humans from seeing the true reality . Even gods and goddesses are inside Maya.

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So Maya in Seekers into the Mystery is the same as the Maya in hinduism

Brahman
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-concept-of-Maya-in-Hinduism Brahman as Infinite Existence, Infinite Knowledge and Infinite Bliss, sat-cit-ananda, is the ultimate reality and the only reality. These are the only attributes that can be ascribed to Brahman, and they are one. It is without a name, without a form or stain, being beyond space, time and causation. It is one without a second. It is all in all. None else exists. "There is neither nature, nor God, nor the universe, only that One Infinite Existence, out of which, through name and form all these are manufactures". Swami Vivekananda maintains that the Advaita clearly postulates one reality only, that is, Brahman; everything else is "unreal", manifested and manufactured out of Brahman by the power of Maya. To reach back to that Brahman is our goal. We are each one of us, that Brahman, that Reality, plus this Maya. Brahman is an indetenninate, impersonal Being without qualities and distinctions, without any relation to any object or the world of objects. [http:// https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahma]

n Hinduism, Brahma connotes the highest Universal Principle, the Ultimate Reality in the universe.[1][2][3] In major schools of Hindu philosophy, it is the material, efficient, formal and final cause of all that exists.[2][4][5] It is the pervasive, genderless, infinite, eternal truth and bliss which does not change, yet is the cause of all changes.[1][6][7] Brahma as a metaphysical concept is the single binding unity behind diversity in all that exists in the universe.[1][8]

Brahma is a Vedic Sanskrit word, and it is conceptualized in Hinduism, states Paul Deusse, as the "creative principle which lies realized in the whole world".[9] Brahma is a key concept found in the Vedas, and it is extensively discussed in the early Upanishads.[10] The Vedas conceptualize Brahma as the Cosmic Principle.[11] In the Upanishads, it has been variously described as Sat-cit-─ünanda (truth-consciousness-bliss)[12][13] and as the unchanging, permanent, highest reality.[6][14][note 1][note 2]

Brahma is discussed in Hindu texts with the concept of Atma (Soul, Self),[10][17]personal,[note 3] impersonal[note 4] or Para Brahma,[note 5] or in various combinations of these qualities depending on the philosophical school.[18] In dualistic schools of Hinduism such as the theistic Dvaita Vedanta, Brahma is different from Atman (soul) in each being.[5][19][20] In non-dual schools such as the Advaita Vedanta, Brahma is identical to the Atman, is everywhere and inside each living being, and there is connected spiritual oneness in all existence.[7][21][22]


The primary focus on the early Upanishads is Brahmavidya and Atmavidya, that is the knowledge of Brahma and the knowledge of Atman (self, soul), what it is and how it is understood.[39] The texts do not present a single unified theory, rather they present a variety of themes with multiple possible interpretations, which flowered in post-Vedic era as premises for the diverse schools of Hinduism.[10]

Paul Deusse states that the concept of Brahma in the Upanishads expands to metaphysical, ontological and soteriological themes, such as it being the "primordial reality that creates, maintains and withdraws within it the universe",[40] the "principle of the world",[40] the "absolute",[41] the "general, universal",[42] the "cosmic principle",[43] the "ultimate that is the cause of everything including all gods",[44] the "divine being, Lord, distinct God, or God within oneself",[45] the "knowledge",[46] the "soul, sense of self of each human being that is fearless, luminuous, exalted and blissful",[47] the "essence of liberation, of spiritual freedom",[48] the "universe within each living being and the universe outside",[47] the "essence and everything innate in all that exists inside, outside and everywhere".[49]

Gavin Flood summarizes the concept of Brahma in the Upanishads to be the "essence, the smallest particle of the cosmos and the infinite universe", the "essence of all things which cannot be seen, though it can be experienced", the "self, soul within each person, each being", the "truth", the "reality", the "absolute", the "bliss" (ananda).[36]

According to Radhakrishna, the sages of the Upanishads teach Brahma as the ultimate essence of material phenomena that cannot be seen or heard, but whose nature can be known through the development of self-knowledge

Beyond Maya
http://vedantastudent.blogspot.com/p/maya.html Then the obvious question is what created this Brahman ― the pure consciousness. Vedantists say: "We will answer this about the Brahman if you ask the right question!". This is not an arrogant answer ― it just brings forth the fact that there is no right question to address this inquiry. That is because the Brahman is beyond causation. This may be a difficult concept to grasp but the Brahman just does not have the same attributes that objects have in Maya ― it is in a completely different plane of awareness. You cannot use the same attributes that you are aware of in this System and apply them to another System. Just like the 3rd dimension is an incomprehensible and inapplicable attribute for people in the 2-dimensional world ― the systems themselves are different ― you cannot take the attributes in Maya (space, time, causation) and apply them to the Brahman

Brahman/God/The Magician in Seekers into the Mystery
God is an eternal, formless and infinite conciusness, Maya is the dream of God. While Maya is the illusion, God is the ultimate Reality, the true reality beyond Maya. He is beyond duality (Including the duality of space and time, Infinity and limitation)as the concept of duality is still inside of Maya who is his dream . If creation is the movie playing in a cinema then God is the projectionist . He is the ultimate cause of everything.He is one with everything and everyone, he is one with the soul, the true self of everyone. To be infinite oneness...to swim in an eternal ocean of love...means nothing if that love cant find expressio . Breaking free from the dreams/illusion means becoming one with God and attaining infinite oneness etc (Atman)


I heard that the Hindu gods (especially Brahman) are tier 1s. God is Brahman, was described in story to have the same nature as him There's the concept of Maya being not only mentioned but also explained to be the same Maya as the one in Hinduism, So is it not possible for God and maybe Maya to be the same tier as (if they have a profile here) their Hindu counterparts? (Like how Cthulhu from Cthulhu saves the world is 1-A because it mentioned Angled space, even though it wasnt elaborated into the story, it was still accepted as 1-A because it is in Cthulhu mythos)
 
I don't think that angled space was remotely 1-A, if I remember Azathoth's blog post correctly.

Anyway, this isn't my area, but you can ask DarkLK and Executor N0 to give input here. I think that some other staff members are knowledgeable about such concepts as well, but don't remember which ones.
 
Also this is the possibly 1-A reason for Cthulhu "Furthermore, Azathoth resided within "Beyond Angled Space" - in the original Cthulhu Mythos, this referred to any dimensional space from 5-dimensional to beyond dimensionality altogether"
 
Perhaps you should ask Azathoth if the page should be updated?
 
Brahman, and in particular, the Parabrahman, would be Tier 0, not 1-A, as it is the fundamental source of all of reality and existence, non-existence, and all alternative states, having no equal. To shamelessly quote Wikipedia:

"Para Brahma (Sanskrit:Óñ¬Óñ░Óñ¼ÓÑìÓñ░Óñ╣ÓÑìÓñ«Óñ¿ÓÑì) (IAST: Para Brahma) is the "Highest Brahma" that which is beyond all descriptions and conceptualisations. It is described in Hindu texts as the formless (in the sense that it is devoid of Maya) spirit (soul) that eternally pervades everything, everywhere in the universe and whatever is beyond.[1]

Hindus conceptualize the Para Brahman in diverse ways. In the Advaita Vedanta tradition, Nirguna Brahma (Brahman without qualities) is Para Brahman. In other Vedanta traditions, it is Saguna Brahma(Brahman with qualities). In Vaishnavism and Shaivism, Vishnu and Shiva, respectively, are Para Brahman."

Furthermore:

"Advaita describes the features of a nondualistic experience, in which a subjective experience also becomes an "object" of knowledge and a phenomenal reality. The Absolute Truth is both subject and object, so there is no qualitative difference:

  • "Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth call this nondual substance Brahman, Param─ütm─ü or Bhagav─ün." (Bhagavata Purana 1.2.11)
  • "Whoever realizes the Supreme Brahma attains to supreme felicity. That Supreme Brahma is Eternal Truth (satyam), Omniscient (jnanam), Infinite (anantam)." (Taittiriya Upanishad 2.1.1)"
All this being said, I could see SiTM God qualifying for a "possibly" 1-A level if the parallels are exact enough.
 
I created this thread because I noticed that the Brahman and Maya wikipedia pages perfectly describes God and Maya

 
This is how God was described in the comics

God is an eternal, formless and infinite conciusness, Maya is the dream of God. While Maya is the illusion, God is the ultimate Reality, the true reality beyond Maya, the Reality from which all dreams emnated. He is beyond duality (Including the duality of space and time, Infinity and limitation, existence and non-existence) as the concept of duality is still inside of Maya who is his dream . If creation is the movie playing in a cinema then God is the projectionist . He is the ultimate cause of everything.He is one with everything and everyone, he is one with the soul, the true self of everyone. To be infinite oneness...to swim in an eternal ocean of love...means nothing if that love cant find expressio . Breaking free from the dreams/illusion means becoming one with God and attaining infinite oneness etc (Atman)
 
What do you think Matthew?

It might also be a good idea to ask Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Assaltwaffle, Kaltias, Celestial Pegasus, and Monarch Laciel to comment here. I think that they have shown familiarity with these types of concepts in the past, but may misremember.
 
Ok so this is the tldr of what I wrote above:

  • The hindu concept of Maya was used in the comics, and it sounds nearly, if not absolutely identical to the hindu Maya concept
  • God is beyond Maya and his description also sounds identical to the Para-Brahman (He's obviously meant to be Brahman) (being a spirit that pervades everything in and beyond creation, beyond the concept of duality, being the true, ultimate reality, being beyond and devoid of maya etc)
 
I don't know. I would prefer more staff input.
 
Okay. Are you willing to update the page Sandman31?
 
Okay. I will unlock it. Tell me here when you are done.
 
Can I make a seperate key for The Magician? He'll have the same rating (Since he's also beyond the concept of time and space and the creator of the multiverse) but he's basically just an avatar of God (The infinite conciusness) inside his dream as he explained to Viola
 
It's like the Multi-Eternity and regular Eternity thing, The Magician is something like God's avatar in his dream (He's also already dead).

If its something unnecessary ok I wont make a second key
 
Do you maybe have a scan where they're shown as extremely distinct beings/forms? Otherwise, it just seems kind of superfluous, kind of like having a key for the Azathoth we see in Fungi From Yuggoth who exists in his own dream, surrounded by lesser beings. Or a key for the perception-of-but-not-really Yog-Sothoth Carter meets in Through the Gates of the Silver Key. It's usually not the sort of thing necessary for creator gods or even most non-dual entities.

But that's just my take on it.
 
Is there any reason for God to not be Tier 0? Considering the fact that:

Ultima Reality said:
>God represents Brahman
>He is an Infinite, Eternal and Timeless Being of Pure Oneness

>Transcends Duality and Infinity in all levels, as well as the Nothingness contained in Maya, his dream

>Is completely transcendent over Transdual 1-As and holds them as merely thoughts floating amidst the Infinite Ocean / Oneness that is His mind
He is basically an Hindu version of Azathoth from I am seeing here. I don't exactly see a reason for Him to not be a Tier 0
 
Given that assigning the 0 tier is a pretty big deal, can you ask Azathoth and Ryukama to comment here again.

Also, for clarification , can somebody show some proof of that all tier 1-A genuinely transdual characters are just tiny figments within his dream?
 
I mean, I could see At least 1-A if you want to take the interpretations literally. I was just trying to take a safe low-end.

You could even make this a case of "At least 1-A, possibly 0"

I know that's never been done before, but it doesn't mean it wouldn't be an accurate tiering nonetheless.
 
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