What a Beautiful Revisions

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Nikola Tesla

His Eos key needs to be downgraded, at Eos his existence was anchored so he would no longer fade from existence, and he isn't running on fumes in terms of his power like when he fought Golden King.

I just don't see the evidence to suggest he is always Low 5-B, he however one shot Pre-Ultharathotep Golden King in his Base, so he is clearly stronger.

As such i suggest Tesla's Eos be High 6-B in Base, higher with Knight of Thunder, Small Planet level at Maximum Power.

Critters/Kikai
Immunity/Resistance to Life Manipulation

My blog has the scans for this, basically Kikai and Critters aren't lives, they aren't a life, only a possibility resembling that.

Immunity to Mind Manipulation and Soul Manipulation?

Critters are basically phenomenon, they are basically considered in the same we you think of a natural disaster, they are also forms of death.

Critters were originally toys, that were turned into their current state by Grimm=Grimm, they also aren't alive in the first place and are just possibility.

If this is legit idk if it would apply to Kikai too since while they also are possibilities and aren't alive, they aren't described as phenomenon and forms of death not to mention they originated from unborn babies.

Self-Sustenance

All types, this is pretty obvious, Critters and Kikai are possibilities, that aren't even alive, and have no material form etc etc.

Grimm=Grimm
So there are some incorrect things on its profile, it's never stated he has a superior nature to Kikai and Critters. He isn't a possibility.

Here is what we do know about Grimm, he is everyone's illusion:







Even the city has dreamed of him:




This was showed in like chapter 8 or something when Gii was dreaming and Grimm should up, didn't take a screenshot of that though. So basically at the beginning Grimm was just thought of as the clown dancing at the edge of Gii's vision, but as Grimm revealed, he isn't just Gii's illusion, he is everyone's, and everyone also dreams of him.

This certainly gives him Non-Corporeal and Abstract Existence. In the past others have claimed this gives him Nonexistent Physiology, because he isn't a real being, just an illusion, i myself don't really have an opinion on that, so just looking for opinions on that.

Inorganic Physiology for Moran and Ruaha
This is obvious, since they are basically robots.

Mary and Charlotte
They should have Instinctive Reaction. Mary's body naturally moved on it's own to dodge Charlotte's attacks




Another thing that's been on my mind is their speed. What we know is that Mary and Charlotte right eye tell them where their opponents attacks will go, and even tell them about their opponents, including what muscles to attack them with:




Sebastian Mora movements were too fast for Mary's left eye, so was Charlotte's, yet Mary was able to see both with her right eye and she dodged Charlotte's attacks, not to mention attack just as fast as Charlotte.

Moran's movements are supersonic, the fact that her right eye could see them, it's really not a leap in logic to say just like with Charlotte where she couldn't see them with her left eye, but with her right she would just dodge Moran's attacks if they fought.

In short I think Mary and Charlotte should be Supersonic scaling to Moran.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Tesla: Agree. It's made clear from time to time on how Tesla's existence is fragile and that he loses his charge when not around anyone with "Radiance", particularly Neon iirc. As of post Gahkthun he doesn't need to worry about it other than probably exhausting himself from using his strongest forms and attacks (DK how true this is, only an assumption of that being his only concern now).

Critters and Kikai: Yes to former. For latter I thought it would work but IDK if the part with the mind and soul would work. Life can since they never got to live in the first place, but mind and soul is tricky especially in regards to stuff like Lemure Lemure. IDK, would like other thoughts on this one.

Grimm=Grimm: Yeah this is an issue that needed to be brought up. Other than being an illusion that is dreamed by everyone, it's also a being of Cracking like the Critters and Kikai. But as the OP points out, there was no point where it was stated to be superior in nature to them. They may have been its creator and can also create black blades with the same nature as Kikai, but never outright or even hinted as being their superior in existence.

Guess for the moment that would make it non-coporeal if not an AE as well but just not for the same reason as Critters and Kikai I assume.

Moran and Ruaha: Simple enough, yes.

Mary and Charlotte: Agree

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Some more things about Grimm's birth.

Grimm was born from the Phenonmnenon Equation Experiment, in addition to the Grand Prince's feelings, which is why he desires others feelings and wishes
















And as posted in my blog, the Phenonmenon Equation controls and warps physics. There is a lot going on with Grimm, he was born out of the Equation, thus he is an equation, he was born out of feelings, and he is everyone's illusion along with appearing in everyone's dream.

He is very abstract.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Noice.

Also, should we also give Petrovna resistances to Fire Manip and Deconstruction?

Death Manip is already a thing but there's also the fact of Kerkan stating how she's the one thing in the city he cannot kill, and then comes later back to where Petrovna states anything Gii could do (before Porshion's upgrade) cannot kill her due to her absurd existence. While it could just be how Gii isn't able to kill her by just simply annihilating one aspect after the other (Either going to Critter and Kikai or vice versa), I take it as resistance for how Petrovna will be unaffected for that same reason as well.

The Kerkan one is already on her page but I didn't link it earlier. That can be done after this CRT is done, ofc.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Agreed.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Also Gii and Kerkan should have Physics Manipulation, since the Equation controls and warps physics.

A lot of ppl in Inganock have minor reality warping based on having the Equation, but only Gii and Kerkan have been confirmed to have it from what i remember so that should be removed of their profiles.

In general, the minor reality warping stuff is brought up in Gahkthun and that is specifically used by the Council to enter a rift in reality, it's GK who does crazy stuff like warping reality.

It's fine for the Council to have minor reality warping but i am iffy on Inganock characters having it, since their application of the ability is warping physics and what GK does seem like an advanced version of it, especially in his Ultharathotep form.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

A lot of add on's to this tho lol.

Agree.

I think Salem also had it but that's irrelevant here considering they don't have much at all + no profile. But yeah as far as Physics Manip in Inganock, Gii and Kerkan are the prime examples of it. Also, why does Apondance Lemure Lemure even have Cracking? This comes from me just not remembering certain things, like GG's nature, but I don't remember Lemure Lemure having Cracking beyond just being a Kikai in and of himself. I'd remove whatever it is that's Cracking related from his page unless there was some implication that he can use it...which I sincerely doubt AFAIK.

Agree on the Gahkthun part and regarding minor reality warp of Inganock. Gii's and Kerkan's, as you said, just do what Cracking/Phenomena Formula does which is warp and control the laws of physics. Granted what they do with it depends on their specialization (Gii towards healing, Kerkan and, to an extent, Salem towards destructive uses, etc.) but still. I can somewhat see where it might be a minor form of reality warp but if you look at it from how it's plainly described, that's just physics manip there.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

''Chew.''

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The Golden Eyes see the truth of all things and perceive every form of emotion, so that's something else to add to Mary and Chalotte:




One last thing i guess, Josephine March shouldn't have Mind Manipulation, but Biological Manipulation, her art allows her to control her opponents brain cells.

Anyway now we wait for input, but judging by past threads, this won't get much of any so i will wait a bit then ask some ppl for input specifically in regards to Critters Immunity to Mind/Soul Manipulation and Grimm=Grimm possibly being Nonexistent since the other stuff is straight forward.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Pretty consistent on truth thing and agree the emotions thing, wherever that falls under.

Agree.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Just to make a rundown of things both in and out of the OP (and in case any other people were to want to comment on this) we have this:

• Inganock
  • Critters and Kikai getting Self-Sustenance (All Types), and Immunity to Soul, Mind and Life manip (a maybe for the first two for Kikai though)
  • Ruaha getting Inorganic Physiology
  • Grimm=Grimm getting an AE Type 1 but for one unrelated to the possibilites of Critter and Kikai (iirc)
  • Gii and Kerkan maybe getting minor RW (reality warping) removed
  • Petrovna to get Fire Manip and Deconstruction Resistances due to saying that Gii wouldn't be able to kill her

• Sharnoth
  • Moran getting Inorganic Physiology
  • Mary and Charlotte getting Supersonic and some more golden eye stuff

• Gahkthu
  • Tesla gets a new tier and downgrade to his EoS key
  • Jo gets Mind Manip replaced with Biological Manip

DK what else is there to add as we've got plenty to work on but that should be it for the time being I suppose.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Tesla downgrade agree

kikai/critter agree

Moran and ruaha agree

Mary and charlie i also agree but i think supersonic reactions is more appropriate with them reacting to it but idk

Petrovna i agree too

gii and kerkan getting some RW i agree

Jo agree too

Grimm idk what type of AE but I think him being a technical illusion being born from the phenomenon equation experiment seems to be legit though this is a bit out my alley

 

[Hykuu]

I agree with the OP

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Wondering, would this in any way upgrade Tesla's Regenerationn?

States here that he could convert his body to pure electricity and then reform it back to a perfect state. The Regenerationn page seems to have been updated so was wondering if Tesla's method of regen can get buffed up or not. Though that ofc would upgrade GK's regen in Ulthrathotep I imagine, and would fit with what happened to GK in the final bout.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

He turned his arm bone to electricity then back to matter again, that's like mid-low regen.

The question is whether he does that to his entire body. If he can that would be like high or low-godly, not really sure.

Don't remember it being said Tesla turn his entire body into electricity then back to matter when GK destroyed him, and GK was said to recreate his body/regenerate which Tesla shattered.

So there is a lot about them regen from being crushed to pieces, and shattered.

However turning to electricity and back to matter is the only time we get any sort of explanation about Tesla's regen and he is repeatedly stated to be the avatar of lightning and that his body is lightning itself, i mean he doesn't even like going into water cause his body being electric, it would be really dumb to assume he can't turn his entire body into electricity.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So relooked at GK vs Tesla, Tesla's electric evasion is him transmitting his structural info to another location obviously through electricity, as this was said to use his electric power:







So in conclusion Tesla can turn his body into electricity to go from one location to the other and obviously to recreate his physical body.

The question now is what regenerating from electricity counts as. Checked Regenerationn, Low-Godly is "The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of your body, instead restoring it from your disembodied consciousness, whether that be your soul, mind, some other nonphysical aspect of yourself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else."

I guess it fits here.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Was tired when I posted that and forgot to expand on if this can work if he can do this to his whole body, not just parts of it like the arm.

Like that you posted, it sounds exactly as I had in mind. Ofc if that doesn't work, they just stay into their current regen. Although again if it does, wouldn't that scale to Ulthrathotep's? The narration puts his regen as instant from Tesla's attack that "shattered his entire body", comparable to one another no less, which I've always interpreted that as Ulthrathotep insta-regen from Tesla's lightning blast that hit him so hard there probably wasn't anything of it left.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Pretty much, i think Low-Godly regen is fine for them.

Gonna see if i can get some ppl to comment on Immunity to mind/soul manipulation and whether Grimm is non-existent.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Think we got everything covered that can be brought up as of this point too. So yes it's just those two concerns from Inganock that needs to be handled.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

How so is "Regenerating from pure electricity" Low-Godly? It depends on context. Electricity as in electric bolts would only be Mid-High as electricity is plasma. Plasma is still a body of matter and thus would qualify as Mid-High. Regenerating from a few or a single Electron(s) for example sounds like High Regenerationn. I know Electrons are sub-atomic, and I think I recall regenerating from Pure Energy is also only High Regenerationn.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Wasn't sure about it, I guess it's Mid High, since nothing is mentioned about electrons.

What do you think about Grimm possibly being non-existent, and Critters mind/soul immunity?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Yeah I was more thinking along the lines of if it's higher than high mid, but not so much as high or low godly much less lol.

It's an upgrade to the regens either way I see it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think those seem fine.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The mind stuff is very weird in regards to Lemure Lemure, he was confident he was the strongest cause his ability traps ppl in an infinite loop of reliving their unendurable present, leading to his target's mind being destroyed.

So idk how i feel about Critters and Kikai having immunity to that, but Lemure's ability still working on them. Then again Kikai have no physical body, yet Gii can shatter them into particles, Sakurai plz lol.

I guess Grimm being a type 1 abstract, non-corporeal, and nonexistent based on him the illusion everyone sees and dreams about, along with being an equation that controls and warps physics + being emotions, is good to go.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Ah...damn I really forgot about that of Lemure Lemure wth lol.

That probably would have still worked on Porshion before its evolution, and it's already able to tank mind shit for Gii before their confrontation. Hmm...yeah IDK at this point. Soul might still work but now that you mention it, the mind part seems uncertain unless Lemure Lemure's a really special case here.

TFW GG has stacked on non-corporealness on top of Type 1 AE and Nonexistence XD

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well Kikai are different from Critter, Critters are phenomenon that kill ppl and forms of death, they really don't have much of anything you can consider idk a personality/mind, they just kill ppl, cause that's what they are.

Kikai aren't describe like that, both are possibilities but Kikai aren't forms of death. Lemure's ability would surely work on Kikai, Critters though idk, we never saw him do it on one and his boasting was in regards to him being stronger than Gii, though also Petrovna, who is actually a Kikai and Critter, but that's just boasting.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

That makes sense.

>They just kill ppl

Mechanical Dead vibes there lol.

That's definitely hype out of LL right there. If Lemure was talking about Gii before his Kikai was upgraded, sure. But Gii ends up tanking the mind thing after it when they met. Petrovna's a wildcard but seeing how Kerkan admitted he wouldn't able to kill her, and Gii was confident Kerkan would have beaten him even if he took out Porshion when they met, and Petrovna states all of Gii's attacks won't work on her, I'd be willing to bet that Lemure Lemure wouldn't have been able to mindhax her. Even if he could, that would be on the Kikai part of her and maybe herself but then you got the Critter part he has to deal with. She's just too absurd for the likes of any Kikai/Kikai user (at least if they don't get an upgrade like Gii and Kerkan).

That said, I guess we're good now unless you want another input just to be safe?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I think we're good, the mind immunity will just be for Critters.

I can do the changes now.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Normal Critters are be mindless in their intelligence, they are a natural phenomenon that kills ppl, Bandersnatch however is different though since it spent a lot of time in info space gathering info.

Though didn't Wendigo mind control ppl for some reason or something?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

That and it can talk and such (Bandersnatch ofc)

I think that was to lure people to making a cult or bring them to him so he can eat them up and kill them. Salem iirc was mind controlled into kidnapping kids or whatever and taking them to Wendigo.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Checked, Wendigo mind controlled Salem so she would kidnap kids for it to eat.

From that Wendigo does display some intelligence, so yea don't think it's mindless.

Think Critters shouldn't get that immunity to mind manipulation due to not having minds, soul manipulation is fine though.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I guess that makes sense. They never really had a mind to begin in so there's nothing to really mindhax them so either way works.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

They can think, it's just nothing complex, just animalistic, if i do this, i can eat that, hence why immunity doesn't fit.

In regards to their soul, they have none, so there is none to soul hax.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Mmmm...fits way into them being toys before. No soul or mind, just abstract beings of Cracking made of possibility that is given "life".

Guess we can remove that from them.

What of Kikai in this regard?

Edit: Wait nevermind, forgot the reasoning for them on Zahak

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

One last thing. Should Ati get an upgrade to Wall level?

Her page says she's comparable to an Upper Tier Soldier, and the one she had to fight to protect Gii during the Bandersnatch chapter was able to break down an iron door. Now obviously we DK what the size of it is, but I would assume being made of iron would yield a result higher than destroying a wooden door as resulted in here.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Destroying a steel door is 1.289e7 joules so we can take that.

This would also upgrade Ruaha and Moran.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

And Kerkan if his own tier is anything to say.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

All the changes are done.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Neato~