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I am starting to doubt that unmastered UI Goku is Low 2-C actually, whit full control sure but as of right now it seems doubtful at best.
Are you people forgetting that UI is apparently trash right now as far as attack is concerned? That is why Jiren didn't take any damage at all from the attack he landed.
If UI affected all his stats equally he would have most likely one or two-shotted. So Goku has the potential to be Low 2-C but he can't use it as of now other than for speed and reflexes.
Also, scans have been rejected before due to inconsistency as far as I know and I see a lot of, it doesn't matter because statement/sca instead of debating.
Are you people forgetting that UI is apparently trash right now as far as attack is concerned? That is why Jiren didn't take any damage at all from the attack he landed.
If UI affected all his stats equally he would have most likely one or two-shotted. So Goku has the potential to be Low 2-C but he can't use it as of now other than for speed and reflexes.
Also, scans have been rejected before due to inconsistency as far as I know and I see a lot of, it doesn't matter because statement/sca instead of debating.
Honestly, I don't even think it matters of what arc they are in. We all know that Goku and Vegeta (Trunks arc) > Kale and Caulifla. That's nothing new ToP they are strong sure, but it doesn't change the fact they'll beat them easily.
Same fusion.
They are already superior while not fused, it's a stomp if they go Blue and SSJ2 Berserker won't even be much. If she gets an upgrade. Vegetto should also be upgraded since he's a superior fusion as whole.
Same fusion.
They are already superior while not fused, it's a stomp if they go Blue and SSJ2 Berserker won't even be much. If she gets an upgrade. Vegetto should also be upgraded since he's a superior fusion as whole.
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Except... he wasn't because he was part fused with Black. Even Vegetto states this. The only way he could regenerate by growing that purple stuff, which only happened during his clash with Goku. And Vegetto was overpowered by Zamasu during their fist clash, meaning he was overpowered by sheer strength.Siegfried10 said:
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I'm starting to think maybe this should be moved to a staff only thread....again. Because now everything is starting to look uncluttered.
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"Vegito struggled because the bastard was immortal and had Regenerationn."
It's very explicit that Zamasu's regen and immortality got compromised by being the fusion of a mortal and an immortal.
He outright tanked Vegito's Final Kamehameha.
It's very explicit that Zamasu's regen and immortality got compromised by being the fusion of a mortal and an immortal.
He outright tanked Vegito's Final Kamehameha.
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Dragon Ball Super V.S Naruto Shippuden said:
Facepalm DBZ style
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PIccolo literally said "might surpass", might does no equate to definitely.Aeyu said:
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Off topic. What do you guys think about the information that Whis said regarding using UI in attacking?
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I'm not trying to derail this entire thread. I just want to know the opinion of others.Aeyu said:
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So what I gathered is something that should be labelled an outlier isn't... because the creators don't know the difference between 3-A and Low 2-C and she has the feat so "**** it" she's only going up a degree of infinity no biggie. Except I don't think any fiction gives a crap about the scaling so by this logic why isn't Hulk scaled to his Multiversal quake? Sure it's an outlier but hey a feats a feat am i right ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬» Not like Goku completely ******* Curbstomped her in an incomplete form or anything.
and I didn't know we started accepting not giving a **** about power-ups cuz its all about the plot/ so hey if SSJ2 Kelfa is Low 2-C damnit she is Low 2-C! not like SSB was giving her a hard time or anything of the sort pffft
and I didn't know we started accepting not giving a **** about power-ups cuz its all about the plot/ so hey if SSJ2 Kelfa is Low 2-C damnit she is Low 2-C! not like SSB was giving her a hard time or anything of the sort pffft
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>should be labelled an outlierAizenishere said:So what I gathered is something that should be labelled an outlier isn't... because the creators don't know the difference between 3-A and Low 2-C and she has the feat so "**** it" she's only going up a degree of infinity no biggie. Except I don't think any fiction gives a crap about the scaling so by this logic why isn't Hulk scaled to his Multiversal quake? Sure it's an outlier but hey a feats a feat am i right ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬» Not like Goku completely ******* Curbstomped her in an incomplete form or anything.
and I didn't know we started accepting not giving a **** about power-ups cuz its all about the plot/ so hey if SSJ2 Kelfa is Low 2-C damnit she is Low 2-C! not like SSB was giving her a hard time or anything of the sort pffft
In whose opinion? Yours?
Have you even seen the scans/reasoning?
That's not why she's Low 2-C. It's because she scales to UI Goku.
SSJB Goku was not giving SSJ2 Kefla a hard time, what are you even talking about?
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@Aeyu
Could you stop asking everyone who has second thoughts about the upgrade if they've "seen the scans" or whatever? No offense, but that isn't necessary, its kinda uncalled for.
Could you stop asking everyone who has second thoughts about the upgrade if they've "seen the scans" or whatever? No offense, but that isn't necessary, its kinda uncalled for.
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If you tell someone that 2 + 2 = 4 and they say that it is 5, what are you supposed to do but to say it equals 4 again?ProfessorKukui4Life said:
The scans prove that Kefla scales to UI Goku.
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SSJB Goku was giving a hard time to ''Super Saiyan Kefla''. Then she somewhat rivaled UI Goku in ''Super Saiyan 2''.
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I'll just say, inb4 inevitable staff thread.
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If you tell someone that 2 + 2 = 4 and they say that it is 5, what are you supposed to do but to say it equals 4 again?
The scans prove that Kefla scales to UI Goku.
Im not sure how that example is supposed to relate to here in any way, but all I meant in that reply is that just because someone either disagrees at first or has second thoughts about an upgrade doesnt mean they disregard stuff. Everyone has the right to speak their mind or whatever issues they may have with something, wrong or not.
The scans prove that Kefla scales to UI Goku.
Im not sure how that example is supposed to relate to here in any way, but all I meant in that reply is that just because someone either disagrees at first or has second thoughts about an upgrade doesnt mean they disregard stuff. Everyone has the right to speak their mind or whatever issues they may have with something, wrong or not.
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Now where are you extrapolating that from? The only thing I could see them scaling to that based off of is Kefla's "infinite," energy as well as possible statements about the DB Universe being infinite in size. (which I don't think it is)RM97 said:
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...scales to UI Goku how exactly? By an incomplete statement of Piccolo and master Roshi saying Goku could be one-shotted? He was trashing SSJ Kelfa in BKK and she one-shotted him because he was on fumes just like here.Aeyu said:>should be labelled an outlierAizenishere said:So what I gathered is something that should be labelled an outlier isn't... because the creators don't know the difference between 3-A and Low 2-C and she has the feat so "**** it" she's only going up a degree of infinity no biggie. Except I don't think any fiction gives a crap about the scaling so by this logic why isn't Hulk scaled to his Multiversal quake? Sure it's an outlier but hey a feats a feat am i right ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬» Not like Goku completely ******* Curbstomped her in an incomplete form or anything.
and I didn't know we started accepting not giving a **** about power-ups cuz its all about the plot/ so hey if SSJ2 Kelfa is Low 2-C damnit she is Low 2-C! not like SSB was giving her a hard time or anything of the sort pffft
In whose opinion? Yours?
Have you even seen the scans/reasoning?
That's not why she's Low 2-C. It's because she scales to UI Goku.
SSJB Goku was not giving SSJ2 Kefla a hard time, what are you even talking about?
What I see is a lot of vague statement and character hype being taken as fact.
So maybe Kefla should be invincible since she has unlimited power and there is no limit to her energy right?
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No.RM97 said:
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Yet in this episode Whis states that Kefla's energy/power as a Super Saiyan rivalized that of the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb, which in turn was more powerful than Goku's SSBKKX20. It's not an outlier, with that information we can simply presume that Goku was using SSBKKX20 when he fought her.Super Saiyan God Julian said:
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Kefla's power is screwy scaling wise. The whole tournament kale and caulifla seemed to be getting stronger even without changing form, just by fighting Goku.
At first his base could fight with them, then his SSJ2 was needed to overpowert them, then they forced him to use SSJG, so they evolved immensly in the tournament very fast (minutes at most).
Then as a fusion they still evolved, his Blue form was doing OK against them at first in their SSJ form, then Kefla one shot's Blue with kaoken, and it's revealed now her SSJ form is equal to Goku's Blue with KK X20 and spirit bomb before they start this episdoes fight. Then going SSJ2 against UI her power and speed keep growing even more to the point she is stated to be able to hurt even UI and be possibly comparable in power to Goku's initial UI.
It is even stated her power rises in response to Goku's power rising.
Basically what this is showign is classic Broly/berserker trait, continuously increasing ki and power, or if you prefer a canon example similar to Goku Black extremely fast power boosts during battle.
tbf I would say increasign in response to a threat at that speed would qualify her for some sort of reactive evolution. It sure would explain her absurd showings that would otherwise defy the official multipliers for scaling.
As for where Vegito stands. I have no doubt he was above SSJ Kefla, simply by using the official multipliers. As for SSJ2 Caulifla, Vegito lacks feats due to limited screen time, and it's unkown using anime only, using manga or other guides/sources we can say Vegito is about Beerus level, so is still superior, but strictly anime only we don't know.
Personally I accept the manga as secondary canon and use it as one would a guide, so as long as its not contradictory things taht happen ro are said in it are fair game, I mean AT himself gives teh outline, and approves of Toyataro's work before he lets it go out so thats enough for me in terms of taking the statments as accurate. But i know this wiki doesnt always accept the manga.
Although undoubtadly a current SSJB Vegito would logically have to be superior to Kefla since we know for certain Goku with Blue > Caulifla SSJ2 or Kale Berserker.
At first his base could fight with them, then his SSJ2 was needed to overpowert them, then they forced him to use SSJG, so they evolved immensly in the tournament very fast (minutes at most).
Then as a fusion they still evolved, his Blue form was doing OK against them at first in their SSJ form, then Kefla one shot's Blue with kaoken, and it's revealed now her SSJ form is equal to Goku's Blue with KK X20 and spirit bomb before they start this episdoes fight. Then going SSJ2 against UI her power and speed keep growing even more to the point she is stated to be able to hurt even UI and be possibly comparable in power to Goku's initial UI.
It is even stated her power rises in response to Goku's power rising.
Basically what this is showign is classic Broly/berserker trait, continuously increasing ki and power, or if you prefer a canon example similar to Goku Black extremely fast power boosts during battle.
tbf I would say increasign in response to a threat at that speed would qualify her for some sort of reactive evolution. It sure would explain her absurd showings that would otherwise defy the official multipliers for scaling.
As for where Vegito stands. I have no doubt he was above SSJ Kefla, simply by using the official multipliers. As for SSJ2 Caulifla, Vegito lacks feats due to limited screen time, and it's unkown using anime only, using manga or other guides/sources we can say Vegito is about Beerus level, so is still superior, but strictly anime only we don't know.
Personally I accept the manga as secondary canon and use it as one would a guide, so as long as its not contradictory things taht happen ro are said in it are fair game, I mean AT himself gives teh outline, and approves of Toyataro's work before he lets it go out so thats enough for me in terms of taking the statments as accurate. But i know this wiki doesnt always accept the manga.
Although undoubtadly a current SSJB Vegito would logically have to be superior to Kefla since we know for certain Goku with Blue > Caulifla SSJ2 or Kale Berserker.
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Not how it works bruh.RM97 said:
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I feel Kale and Caulifla are really easy to quantify. I gotta make a blog on her explaining shit.
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Not really because I'm pretty sure at that level of stamina he can't reach X20. Plus in the series a kaioken multiplier of greater than 2 is always stated in the episode. In that fight Goku didn't mention any multiplier so it was only regular kaioken(But he did powerup somewhat though)Tsubasa16 said:
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Going nowhere fast.
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This thread is getting absurdly derailed. Tons of people here are arguing on points that make no sense when this is a plain, simple, to-the-point feat.
Most staff have agreed on this too.
Most staff have agreed on this too.
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@Aeyu I never calimed he had feats for it, Vegito is honestly unkown level in anime but obviously above SSJB KK Goku by far. I said scaling wise logically he is superior to SSJ version of Kefla. Onyl way to scale him is manga/interviews which places him at around Beerus level, but since people dont wanna use the manga not much anybody can do in order to place him aside from being way above SSJB KK Goku.
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