Water Creation is not a calcable feat

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yeah, well... supposedly this is standard?

There was this Calc assuming that conjuring water is moving electrons to form water molecules. Now... I think we all understand why this is a crazy assumption.

Better however, is that this has no innate Ap, of course. Instead, the only way to squeeze a Calc out of it is to use the heat produced by such a chemical process that totally happened.

Now, firstly, why would they scale to the side effect of something they did, but more importantly, where's the heat? The Calc itself is 7-A, which should create enough heat to vaporize the nearby forest as if a tsar bomba just dropped in to say hi.

Are Kisame's lungs that heat resistant? (No, they aren't).

I won't bring the legitimacy of heat feats as a whole into it.

 

[Damage3245]

Is this better as a Content Revision thread or a Calc Group Discussion thread?

EDIT: I see your point. The basis of the calc is calculating the side-effect of the water's creation but there is no visible indication of that much heat present anywhere in the feat.

 

[Antoniofer]

User's methods to try to give a number to everything never stop to amaze me. Like, people needs to understand there's stuff that isn't physically possible and no use in calculating...

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

In this specific case:

It cannot be e=mc2, there is the obvious lack of anti-matter that would be needed for that to be legitimate.

It cannot be what is proposed, due to assuming subatomic manipulation, and the lack of the supposed heat created from such a thing.

It can't be humidity condensate, due to it being stated in-verse to be impossible.

In this case at least, conjuring water is just magic without possible calculation. Maybe you can get a decent calculation result from the water moving as fast as Kisame swims, but I doubt it's 7-B (without calc stacking with speed calcs.)

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Yeah, well... supposedly this is standard?

There was this Calc assuming that conjuring water is moving electrons to form water molecules. Now... I think we all understand why this is a crazy assumption.

Better however, is that this has no innate Ap, of course. Instead, the only way to squeeze a Calc out of it is to use the heat produced by such a chemical process that totally happened.

Now, firstly, why would they scale to the side effect of something they did, but more importantly, where's the heat? The Calc itself is 7-A,whxih should create enough heat to vaporize the nearby forest as if a tsar bomba just dropped in to say hi.

Are Kisame's lungs that heat resistant? (No, they aren't).

I won't bring the legitimacy of heat feats as a whole into it.

I agree completely and dislike that there are minor double standards
Jujutsu can’t get it but Naruto and Nanatsu no Taizai can(I know in Jujutsu it’s an outrageous outlier that way but that wasn’t the reason for rejection)
And calcs about water creation never consider the heat

It’s a feat you just can’t slap a number on it’s simply just fictional magic BS

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

So this calculation dont work?

Nanatsu No Taizai: Water creation

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

So this calculation dont work?

Nanatsu No Taizai: Water creation

vsbattles.fandom.com

Nope

 

[Damage3245]

Okay, so Naruto and Nanatsu no Taizai would be affected by this. Any other verses?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

In this case, is it valid to use the method? The character literally sustents the water existence

 

[Damage3245]

In this case, is it valid to use the method? The character literally sustents the water existence

I wouldn't think so. As a "feat" his title is seemingly lacking a lot of context.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It certainly would need a lot more proof. Would he even fit our stabilization standards to scale?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I think it is possible to change the formula to GPE. Many creation feats use this method

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Okay, so Naruto and Nanatsu no Taizai would be affected by this. Any other verses?

Always hated that dimension created feat in NNT, glad it's being nuked

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Also the horizon calculator is not usable if I am not mistaken

I never use it anymore and I tell people to revise calcs that use it

But I don't remember if we're still allowed to use it

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I think there should be rules for using the calculator, it is extremely useful in some cases.

But that is not the subject of this thread, so mhe

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump.

 

[Damage3245]

I'll summon some more staff to give their input on the OP.

@DontTalkDT @Therefir @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu @Ugarik @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

Help would be appreciated since there is an active CRT waiting on this to be resolved.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Bump

 

[M3X_2.0]

Bump

 

[Damage3245]

Hmm... I did tag a few calc group members but they haven't responded... Is everyone busy or did my tagging not work?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Hmm, try to tag Ant here, he can help. If he doesn't respond, I'll message him.

 

[Armorchompy]

I agree this kind of feat should be removed.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Mr._Bambu @Therefir @Ugarik @DMUA @DemonGodMitchAubin @Jasonsith @Wokistan @KieranH10 @Migue79 @Antoniofer

What do you think about this?

 

[DMUA]

Condensing water is a legit way to measure it, though that calc in particular doesn't look like the other examples I've seen of this and figured made sense by a longshot.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I doubt Kisame burned hydrogen for this move. Condensation could be an option, although I have my doubt that he actually condensed water in his closed mouth. Personally, I would deem this a creation feat.

 

[M3X_2.0]

How does the condensation method works? You can leave the feat for the supporters, the thing is legit.

 

[Damage3245]

You can leave the feat for the supporters, the thing is legit.

Just saying "Trust the supporters on this" is not a good argument for why the feat should be legit.

 

[DMUA]

Citation: dude just trust me

 

[M3X_2.0]

I'm not saying to trust on us, just leave it for us to discuss, or do you think DT knows everything about Naruto?

 

[Damage3245]

It's a calc issue that affects multiple verses, not something exclusive to Naruto verse.

 

[DMUA]

I am just meming, I personally don't care much and I do understand calc group members don't automatically gain omniscience.

 

[Antvasima]

DT is basically a genius with outstanding common sense, but he doesn't know everything, yes.

 

[M3X_2.0]

It's a calc issue that affects multiple verses, not something exclusive to Naruto verse.

Damage, we are going to discuss Kisame's feat in a different thread. Discuss the method here. That's what I meant.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I am just meming, I personally don't care much and I do understand calc group members don't automatically gain omniscience.

They ahould, damn it!

 

[DMUA]

They should, damn it!

 

[Migue79]

... Why go for such an unsupported assumption? I feel like there needs some sort of proof for doing such method in that calc.

Also, could you not just use GPE in this case like in this SE calc?

 

[Damage3245]

... Why go for such an unsupported assumption? I feel like there needs some sort of proof for doing such method in that calc.

Also, could you not use GPE in this case like in this SE calc?

That seems like it would be the better method to me.

 

[M3X_2.0]

@DontTalkDT how does this condensation method works? Is it like the cloud creation method?

 

[Wokistan]

I mean it's theoretically possible to add enough pressure to force a gas into a liquid state, but I don't like assuming that without the verse indicating that's going on and I especially don't like assuming that for magic/spirit/whatever that Naruto uses because that seems really inconsistent with the general sort of setting.|

If you got some weirdo verse where people are just messing around with pressure that's calculable I guess.

 

[DontTalkDT]

@DontTalkDT how does this condensation method works? Is it like the cloud creation method?

Technically yes, but in this case we pretty much see that Kisame creates the water in his body, his mouth specifically.
Since he neither has this amount of hydrogen+oxygen nor this amount of water vapour in his body it stands to reason that this is a feat of something being created from nothing. I.e. a creation feat.

GPE (or KE) could work, as was suggested above.