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How strong is he? In the fan animation (heroes and villains vs Oscar), Oscar is stronger than Manhattan, because Doctor cannot destroy Oscar barrier. I wonder how strong Oscar is
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Watchmen (2009) Manhattan tier
- Thread starter Bowser-us
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well i doubt hes tier 1
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He would likely be at least 7-A with his powers Since he did do a city busting feat
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how is manhattan 7a
he controlled space and time. Teleported to mars and back few times ,teleported reactor and went to another galaxy. This is easily galactic level feat. You can't bend space and time with less and he said he could stop the nuke, that would require at least thousands of teleportation.
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My tiering was shitty back then, dw
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You can bend space and time and be below galaxy level.
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you can't. even opening a very small wormhole is equal to solar level energy, in real world and teleportation is far above opening a wormhole.
and bending space and time for thousands times is way above solar level energy.
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Nullflowerblush
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Time for a verse-wide CRT?
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That's... not how any of this works. There are incredibly strict standards for stuff like this.
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it actually works like this.
normal very small wormhole requires energy enough to wipe solar system.
teleportation requires significantly more energy according to scientists
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Lots of characters on the wiki can bend time and space or teleport, and they are way below this tier.
Abra, who teleport a lot, is Small City level on the wiki.
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because it is their special ability, like america america chavez travelling multiverse but being very weak while strange couldn't even teleport with his ring, wanda couldn't go to another universe while chavez could.that is the ability you are talking about.
but if you didnt notice, loki said that even odin barely teleported one time and odin was close to galactic at minimum yet wasn't powerful enough to teleport because teleportation requires energy more than galactic level. That was the reason odin struggled to do it.
based on what we know, in comics, manhattan doesn't even teleport, he changes entire multiverse around himself without him moving.we probably can't take this but when we take either wormhole or teleportation, it becomes galactic because it is clear, teleportation is not manhattans special magical ability like america chavez. manhattan does it by using normal real physics and energy.
Abra may be able to teleport infinitely and this may not make him galactic because teleportation is his special ability without any logical explanation behind it .I don't know the abra guy but he probably doesn't do it by using real physics, energy and actually bending real space like odin , manhattan and manhattan is actually more physical and science based character than mcu odin who also follows scientific rules.
we can also say that even if dceu mother boxes hadn't destroyed planets or terraformed them , teleportation ability would still have made them galactic energy sources or just like we say that dceu kryptonations were able to create wormholes and singularities on krypton therefore they had galactic energy resources before krypton was destroyed. These are slightly different than a pokemon who is not bound by any scientific rule or logic.
These are slightly different than a pokemon who is not bound by any scientific rule or logic. A pokemon can teleport infinitely and be as weak as human but that is not the case of watchmen universe character that is even more realistic than similar universes like dceu .
Even in dceu and mcu ,if someone manages to teleport ,we consider them as galactic being with rare exceptions like america chavez.
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No. Just as we have strict rules about black holes, our rule on wormholes are equally as strict.
Especially Teleportation. We do not equate teleportation to AP in like, any case, ever.
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None of this is going to allow you to scale teleportation to AP, that's not how shit works here.
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I don't know if you don't but normally it is equal
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i don't care how your shit work there. I am writing what is what .
I gave ennard the right answer. I don't care if you disagree.
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You might wanna watch your tone there, you're literally another comment like that away from a visit to the RVT.
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Not here it isn't. So you might as well drop it now.
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my tone ? you came here i didnt even ask for you to join. writing things like "shit"
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i don't care it if is not there. I am not even talking to you. why are you even here ? in the middle of our conversation.
you are the one who asked the question. My answer is not to you either so i don't even know why you are writing to me.
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And? I didn't use it in an aggravating tone towards you, I merely stated that this is not how we do things around here, if you find my way of saying things in this manner to keep conversations alive and lively too rude for you, I apologize in advance, but that still doesn't change the fact that you really need to study the site's policies and standards on this sort of stuff and consult the calc group members in advance before making claims like this, because honestly, you are not the first person who has been misinformed and has taken grievances against the staff members of the site based on things like this.
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You do realize that I am a staff member and that it is kind of my job to be present in a public conversation and remind you of our rules? This isn't private DMs, it's a public forum.
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is it your job to break the conversation ? this is not official tiering gathering of some kind.
yes this is not dm, we are talking here as a group, sharing ideas with friends.
you can write that it won't go as official but why break the conversation unnecessarily?
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you obviously used that tone like "shit doesn't work here"
somebody asked a question and i answered. you don't have to agree. this is not official tiering gathering. I explained to him that teleportation requires that much of energy and that feat is normally galactic feat so that he can know and use it later if needed. Now you don't have to agree or put it as official.
It was about informing ennard about movie manhattan . So i don't even know why you intervened since it is not any official tiering here.
We were basically talking about movie and science .
"standards on this sort of stuff and consult the calc group members in advance before making claims like this"
there is no claim here. I was just writing someone here, didn't ask it to be official. is there any indication that someone who is calc group member knows better than me .Why would i ask for my own opinion to someone else ?
i literally just wrote that manhattan teleported in the movie . that is all.
you are free to intervene and stop if i force you to make it official but no need to break normal chat.
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And I literally told you that in this place we do not grant such a rating for merely teleporting as they require incredibly strict standards to follow and even then it could be largely taken out of context.
Doesn't matter, read what I wrote above.
I'd argue that's bordering on arrogance on your part.
You were literally going about how Teleportation is somehow Tier 4 levels of energy while completely ignoring that we do not grant tiers based on this.
And no, this is not a normal chat, please kindly read what forum you posted this on. This isn't General Discussions, this is Questions and Answers.
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and i didn't write to ask for any tier .i just mentioned a scene from movie
how can it be taken out of context ?
what is above ?
""there is no claim here. I was just writing someone here, didn't ask it to be official. is there any indication that someone who is calc group member knows better than me .Why would i ask for my own opinion to someone else ?""
"bordering arrogance "? how did i become arrogant ?
you are free to refuse any tiering as the admin but i didn't ask anything to be made official so there is even no need to reject since i didn't claim anything.
so why i am asking to some calc group about what i should think ?
you are literally saying we are not free to think and we have to ask some group before we think and i became arrogant ?
you don't need to grant tier .I didn't even asked for it .
I just wrote to someone that manhattan teleported in the movie.
"You were literally going about how Teleportation is somehow Tier 4 levels of energy"
i was but i didn't ask you to make it official or agree. You are free to disagree as well.
i know this is questions and answers . that is why it was normal chat. If you didn't notice i just mentioned a scene from movie
i didn't ask anything to be made official by forcing you to accept.
how does this page being question and answers prevent us about talking the movie ?
.
normally as official ,it would be ok if you told me that
you may have some truth in your answer or 100 % wrong but doesn't fit our rules of tiering so we can't put manhattan to that tier if you ask for it to be made official.
but instead of this , you basically said to me "your shit doesn't work here" while i was just talking to someone about movie scene .
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Then why talk about it to begin with?
You literally stating that you trust your own word above calc group members who are more knowledgeable on the subject.
Incorrect. You were going on the assumption that your thoughts are somehow what we, the site, should go by.
Oh, what's this then?
Again, why talk about it in the first place then? In here of all places?
Because this isn't the General Discussions thread.
And that's where it should have ended.
You were the one who started talking about why Dr Manhattan is 7A, literally before this thread caught my attention.
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because i was telling him/her about movie scene. It has nothing to do with official tiering grant.
how are they more knowledgeable than me in math calculation and movie character analysis since they don't know me ?
they are clearly more knowledgeable in tiering based on this forum rules.
if you meant ask them about this forum rules , then yes i should ask them for rules of this forum
i thought you meant i should ask them about "math calculation and movie character analysis"
no you don't have to agree obviously. you don't have to make it official. I was just talking about it.
definitely not official tiering request ,don't remember asking to be made official.
because i just saw someone talking about bomb and i wanted to remind about teleportation scene so that they can keep it in mind.
fair enough.
yes it should have but you never wrote anything as such. i didn't even understand what you were talking about
"normally as official ,it would be ok if you told me that
you may have some truth in your answer but doesn't fit our rules of tiering so we can't put manhattan to that tier if you ask for it to be made official."
this is not the same thing with"
your shit doesn't work here"
i don't even know what that meant
i just told my opinion about teleportation scene and its connection to science.
I didn't ask it to be made official . There is a difference.
If it doesn't follow rules , you could have explained it and could have said this :
"normally as official ,it would be ok if you told me that
you may have some truth in your answer but doesn't fit our rules of tiering so we can't put manhattan to that tier if you ask for it to be made official."
so that we could understand what you were talking about.
I even thought you accidentally wrote here.
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So what's up with the "Galactic level" comments?
I could ask the same of you, how do you know you're knowledgeable than them if you haven't actually discussed it with them in detail first?
Then you worded it poorly. Very poorly.
Again, if that was your intent, then you went about wording it very, very poorly.
If it isn't going to be accepted regardless, I don't see the point to remind them about it again.
Your first few comments.
Nope, I never did.
In fact, I should have also elaborated that a wormhole merely requiring that amount of energy does not mean it automatically scales to attack potency, as you'd have to go through some incredibly strict regulations as to whether this qualifies in the first place or not, hell, even without all of that, the method used to transfer that energy into teleportation might very well not be fitting with how AP is actually calculated and measured, which would effectively nullify any premise you had. We have rejected many black hole related feats on this same exact purpose, and because fiction does not tend to portray black holes very realistically almost 99% of the time.
I have now elaborated on my response.
You didn't just do that, you blatantly stated an energy value without going into detail how this was obtained and without checking whether this would qualify our strict standards for measuring attack potency this way. Having an energy value alone does not mean it is automatically combat applicable.
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galactic comments was related the energy of wormholes .It obviously wasn't any official tiering request.
Obviously i didn't force you to accept it. I was talking about energy when i wrote "This is easily galactic level feat."
i never used "attack potency "phrase in my life if you meant that, hence the "movie scene "
but unlike you, i never claimed that i know better, that they should ask me or anything , did i ?
how did word it poorly ? I only talked about energy of wormholes obviously i didn't request anything.
how was it poorly, i was talking to someone random here. I never officially applied for manhattan tier to be changed.
because they can know and use it somewhere else when they have conversation or group rules may chance in future ?
i obviously don't care any official tiering . I only wanted to write about a scene in watchmen movie and talk about it.
it was chat, conversation
why would i care if someone is going to accept my opinion or not ? or why would i even try to change official tiering ?
if it changes ,changes, if not , then it doesn't
and i didn't say required amount of energy is equal to attack potency . I never used "attack potency " word in my life even when i compared characters.
but there is no rule (logically and physically, not talking about forum ) says that energy required in teleportation can't be used attack potency.
as we can see sometimes beings like mcu odin struggles to teleport and bound to real figures.
i didn't even write anything about attack potency . i only wrote how much energy is required for wormholes and how much energy manhattan may have produced based on wormholes and all.
where did i claim manhattan has that kind of attack potency.
i never once even used word "attack potency " in my life.
i mentioned teleportation as to how much energy manhattan may have produced , i never mentioned anything about his attack power or anything
according to rules it may not even affect tiering at all.
.
not to mention ,as you know better , the thing called "attack potency " sometimes has a place in tiering and sometimes it has no place or importance in tiering.
a being with no "attack potency" can have much higher tier.
so even in that area, teleportation doesn't even need to be equal to "attack potency". Even a being who can stop thousands of nukes in mid air would still have very much higher tier even if he had zero " attack potency" since tiering is about " overall power + totality of abilities + hierarchy " not just "attack potency"
therefore we don't need to connect the "teleportation feat to attack potency " as teleportation itself alone increases tier significantly.
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You don't need to use the phrase to make it sound like one.
You say you didn't want it to be officialy yet you explicitly called it a "galactic level feat".
That on its own implies thoroughly that you intended it to be taken as an AP feat, here whether you used the term "Attack potency" or not is irrelevant, the moment you slap the words for an object and "level" together, right off the bat that refers to the feat being an AP feat.
Read above- the moment you called it a "galactic level feat", that's the moment you ended up wording it poorly.
I'm going to stop you right there, because there is no "chance" or "future" for this kind of feat.
This is the "Questions and Answers" thread, not the "General Discussion thread.
Then why waste time talking about things in the Questions and Answers thread that won't get accepted?
Does. Not. Matter.
The moment you called it a "galactic level feat", it automatically gets referred as an attack potency feat.
Those rules don't apply in fiction.
That's merely a limitation of his magic. Also, did I forget to mention that teleportation is normally hax and not AP unless it has feats of harming characters with a certain durability value?
Like I said, it doesn't matter if you use the term "Attack potency" or not. Putting a "level feat" after any kind of object automatically makes it be referred to as an AP feat.
Why are you repeating this over and over again? I've already stated in my above counters in this comment that it doesn't matter if you didn't use the phrase.
No, we simply place them as Unknown unless actual proper feats are found or calculated for said characters.
Can we just stop with this derailing and actually focus on finding feats for him?
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1.)"
That on its own implies thoroughly that you intended it to be taken as an AP feat, here whether you used the term "Attack potency" or
not is irrelevant, the moment you slap the words for an object and "level" together, right off the bat that refers to the feat being an AP feat."
not really. because i don't care about attack potency in any comparison .even if requested applied for official tiering, i wouldn't care or use attack potency for tiering
2.) "Read above- the moment you called it a "galactic level feat", that's the moment you ended up wording it poorly."
it was about the energy level . i didnt ask manhattan to be tiered officially
3.) " I'm going to stop you right there, because there is no "chance" or "future" for this kind of feat."
maybe not in this group . but still can talk converse anywhere else
4.) "This is the "Questions and Answers" thread, not the "General Discussion thread."
then that was my mistake if this is only about official tiering not conversation.
5.) "Then why waste time talking about things in the Questions and Answers thread that won't get accepted?"
why would i care about it being accepted ? I wanted to talk about teleportation. that's all.
answers part is only for official tiering , my answer was mistake i admit.
6.) "Does. Not. Matter.
The moment you called it a "galactic level feat", it automatically gets referred as an attack potency feat."
maybe but i didnt say , he has galactic level attack potency. If teleportation requires galactic energy it only
means manhattan can harness or use galactic energy ,doesn't have to be attack potency
7.)"Those rules don't apply in fiction."
obviously applies considering mcu odin.In comics, it is even more common when a hero can't find enough energy to teleport.
8.) "not to mention ,as you know better , the thing called "attack potency " sometimes has a place in tiering and sometimes it has no place or importance in tiering.
a being with no "attack potency" can have much higher tier.
No, we simply place them as Unknown unless actual proper feats are found or calculated for said characters."
there are dozens of famous characters with really weak attack potency who are tiered higher by hierarchy and other abilities ,
"
9.)Can we just stop with this derailing and actually focus on finding feats for him?"
if you are looking for attack potency , i hink that is impossible since manhattan didn't do anything destructive in the movie
10.)"That's merely a limitation of his magic. Also, did I forget to mention that teleportation is normally hax and not AP unless it has feats of harming characters with a certain durability value?"
no it wasn't a limitation
it was clear from what loki said. When he said that odin struggled to teleport people , he clearly implied that odin's total power was barely enough to teleport.
It wasn't limitation of magic.
That on its own implies thoroughly that you intended it to be taken as an AP feat, here whether you used the term "Attack potency" or
not is irrelevant, the moment you slap the words for an object and "level" together, right off the bat that refers to the feat being an AP feat."
not really. because i don't care about attack potency in any comparison .even if requested applied for official tiering, i wouldn't care or use attack potency for tiering
2.) "Read above- the moment you called it a "galactic level feat", that's the moment you ended up wording it poorly."
it was about the energy level . i didnt ask manhattan to be tiered officially
3.) " I'm going to stop you right there, because there is no "chance" or "future" for this kind of feat."
maybe not in this group . but still can talk converse anywhere else
4.) "This is the "Questions and Answers" thread, not the "General Discussion thread."
then that was my mistake if this is only about official tiering not conversation.
5.) "Then why waste time talking about things in the Questions and Answers thread that won't get accepted?"
why would i care about it being accepted ? I wanted to talk about teleportation. that's all.
answers part is only for official tiering , my answer was mistake i admit.
6.) "Does. Not. Matter.
The moment you called it a "galactic level feat", it automatically gets referred as an attack potency feat."
maybe but i didnt say , he has galactic level attack potency. If teleportation requires galactic energy it only
means manhattan can harness or use galactic energy ,doesn't have to be attack potency
7.)"Those rules don't apply in fiction."
obviously applies considering mcu odin.In comics, it is even more common when a hero can't find enough energy to teleport.
8.) "not to mention ,as you know better , the thing called "attack potency " sometimes has a place in tiering and sometimes it has no place or importance in tiering.
a being with no "attack potency" can have much higher tier.
No, we simply place them as Unknown unless actual proper feats are found or calculated for said characters."
there are dozens of famous characters with really weak attack potency who are tiered higher by hierarchy and other abilities ,
"
9.)Can we just stop with this derailing and actually focus on finding feats for him?"
if you are looking for attack potency , i hink that is impossible since manhattan didn't do anything destructive in the movie
10.)"That's merely a limitation of his magic. Also, did I forget to mention that teleportation is normally hax and not AP unless it has feats of harming characters with a certain durability value?"
no it wasn't a limitation
it was clear from what loki said. When he said that odin struggled to teleport people , he clearly implied that odin's total power was barely enough to teleport.
It wasn't limitation of magic.
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Then you should have stated so from the very beginning.
Very well. I won't stop you.
You calling it a "galactic level feat" implied as such, and you should've still worded it better.
Nope, we rejected that CRT ages ago when they proposed it. It's not combat-applicable..
You're confusing AP with DC (Destructive Capacity).
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no i am not, i know that ap is the area that you can affect whether to create, destruct or anything. but i know hierarchy alone is not attack potency
" Nope, we rejected that CRT ages ago when they proposed it. It's not combat-applicable.."
i don't know how it is here. I wrote in general that , they/marvel /mcu made some connection between mcu odins raw power and teleportation.
i haven't looked how mcu odin tiered here.you might have rejected the connection between when you tiered but it doesn't erase it.
"Those rules don't apply in fiction.""
this means ,rules actually apply in fiction , just not used in tiering here. two thing is totally different
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Nah, you got it wrong, that's Destructive Capacity. Area of Effect has nothing to do with AP. Attack Potency is explicitly the energy value you dish out with your attacks, or the energy value you'd require to damage someone who has a specified durability value in joules.
No, there is no such connection.
No, wormholes in fiction are not assumed to follow IRL laws by default, similar to how black holes in fiction do not follow IRL rules by default.
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" Attack Potency is explicitly the energy value you dish out with your attacks, or the energy value you'd require to damage someone who has a specified durability value in joule"
exactly i know that is ap . i didn't get it wrong.
the point is one being can have much lesser attack potency but can have superior to other as hierarchy. higher beings can still have less ap if they are observers /watchers /abstracts. this doesn't put them below , does it ?
if i give an example from dc, chronicler came to my mind ,he has shown no ap to use but we know he is many tiers above god called metron by his own words.
it doesn't necessarily mean he has to have more ap then metron to be on higher tier. Being stated to be above in hierarchy itself directly puts chronicler above metron in tiers whether we compare ap or not.
"No, there is no such connection." there is direct connection , why do you disagree, can you explain ?
"No, wormholes in fiction are not assumed to follow IRL laws by default, similar to how black holes in fiction do not follow IRL rules by default."
wormholes are generally considered as feat in normal comparisons both in comics and mcu/dceu ,don't know about the rules here.
exactly i know that is ap . i didn't get it wrong.
the point is one being can have much lesser attack potency but can have superior to other as hierarchy. higher beings can still have less ap if they are observers /watchers /abstracts. this doesn't put them below , does it ?
if i give an example from dc, chronicler came to my mind ,he has shown no ap to use but we know he is many tiers above god called metron by his own words.
it doesn't necessarily mean he has to have more ap then metron to be on higher tier. Being stated to be above in hierarchy itself directly puts chronicler above metron in tiers whether we compare ap or not.
"No, there is no such connection." there is direct connection , why do you disagree, can you explain ?
"No, wormholes in fiction are not assumed to follow IRL laws by default, similar to how black holes in fiction do not follow IRL rules by default."
wormholes are generally considered as feat in normal comparisons both in comics and mcu/dceu ,don't know about the rules here.
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Being an abstract grants you nothing in terms of AP or Tier.
Simple, Teleportation by default is hax. It isn't used in a combat sense.
They've all so far been shown to violate the rules and conditions of an IRL wormhole, which are similar in nature to the conditions of a black hole in principle.
Now, instead of further derailing, focus on actually finding feats for the Watchmen movie, please?
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how so ? in dc ,if abstract or divine is from sphere of gods, which generally are , their tier directly starts with something around 2a-1c whether they have ap or not, no ? they are tiered by their place, dimension without any ap , no ?
if a being is to be created suddenly and mentioned to live in 5d or 6d with no ap ,he would be tiered as 1a or 1b whether shown any ap or not , no ? just by what they are and where they live.
"Simple, Teleportation by default is hax. It isn't used in a combat sense."
no i didn't mean generally ,
i meant specifically ,why don't you think that mcu odin and his teleportation thing didn't have connection.
of course pokemon teleporting feat has no connection in combat sense : )
"Now, instead of further derailing, focus on actually finding feats for the Watchmen movie, please?"
isn't this impossible since he didnt even attack anyone ,he can't have attack potency ?
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Nope, dimensionality on its own also means nothing anymore because now you need proof for existential superiority for said dimensions. Read our Tiering System FAQ and Explanation pages to know more.
Being stated to be 5D or 6D without any further proof wouldn't even be enough to grant it Higher-Dimensional Existence even, it's too vauge. The higher dimensions explicitly need to be shown to be a place of higher power and qualitative superiority too.
Because he doesn't use it to fight.
It doesn't need to scale to his striking strength, we have environmental damage feats and creation feats be tiered separately unless there is implication of a universal energy source being in use (In which case it scales to all stats).
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