Watchdog man likely higher

[ZillertheBucko]

Watchdog man's power was described as "way beyond anything he could have ever imagined" hence the 7-B rating
however, he was also holding back by an unknown amount, meaning watchdog man should be given a likely higher on top of the 7-B, to represent his full power and speed being unquantifiably stronger and faster than what he used to stomp and speed blitz garou
7-B, likely higher for his tier
and for his speed, since garou scales directly to massively hypersonic+, watchdog man should be at least massively hypersonic+, likely higher

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Watchdog Man is one of those heroes where we barely got to see the full extent of his powers iirc, so I don't mind this.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Watchdog Man is one of those heroes where we barely got to see the full extent of his powers iirc, so I don't mind this.

The hero association puts all stats except popularity and effectiveness as unknown, probably due to his fights ending so fast
and there’s 0 scenes of him being hit or damaged or not having a bored look on his face, so he’s probably one of the stronger S class heroes, the current rating of 7-B with no upscale doesn't do him justice at all tbh

 

[Kachon123]

I agree

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I...disagree

The Garou that he fought is "At most 7-B", him being 7-B is already an upscaling for defeating him while still holding back, he has no real stuff besides this, and part of the problem was that Garou's style doesn't match someone like Watchdog Man

Having no scenes with damage and other stuff doesn't mean much without more context, if anything, it will be used for reverse burden of proof, and I don't think I need to go into details on why that is wrong

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I agree with Lightning. Seems like a stretch

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The Garou that he fought is "At most 7-B", him being 7-B is already an upscaling for defeating him while still holding back, he has no real stuff besides this, and part of the problem was that Garou's style doesn't match someone like Watchdog Man

Wrong. The 7-B as opposed to at most 7-B comes from Garou having described watchdog man as having power and speed beyond anything he could have ever imagined, and wounding and blitzing him
We know that he had more to give than that though, so he’s stronger than that 7-B

I agree with Lightning. Seems like a stretch

If anything, his current rating is a strech
Even “at most 7-B, likely higher” would be more accurate than just giving him a solid 7-B rating.

 

[LordTracer]

I...disagree

The Garou that he fought is "At most 7-B", him being 7-B is already an upscaling for defeating him while still holding back, he has no real stuff besides this, and part of the problem was that Garou's style doesn't match someone like Watchdog Man

Having no scenes with damage and other stuff doesn't mean much without more context, if anything, it will be used for reverse burden of proof, and I don't think I need to go into details on why that is wrong

Agreed.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

And before you say “well it wasn’t a one shot tho” power “far beyond anything I could ever imagine” does not mean “yeah he’s maybe 1% stronger than me”, he was clearly just scratching at him the whole time instead of actually going for the neck or anything, in which case it would have been a one shot for sure. Also, I could make the argument that he can “imagine” Silverfang’s power, so at least watchdog man was comparable to the strongest heroes he’d met up until that point, and he visibly was taking much more damage than he did against tank top master
the power watchdog man displayed in the fight is enough to warrant upscaling to 7-B, the fact that he was holding back warrants the likely higher

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Is anybody gonna acknowledge my points? Saying that watchdog man isn’t likely higher is literally saying if watchdog man was going all out then the fight would have only warranted “at most 7-B” for wdm

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Watchdog man was even bored by watching bang and metal bat showing off their power, scans are inconvenient (I’m on mobile rn) but the references are right on his wiki page right here

The

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Garou wasn’t even able to adapt to him either, and he does have stat amping RE on this key as well, so wdm should even be stronger than a garou who is somewhat stronger than the “at most 7-B”
this is kinda silly, it’s inherently wrong to pinpoint an exact tier for wdm when he was holding back by an unknown amount for the entire fight and still was way beyond him in power and was able to blitz him WHILE HOLDING BACK

 

[ssgengar]

So to clarify is the garou he fought rated 7-B or at most 7-B? Kinda skimmed the replies

Honestly I’d say given garou’s statements, a likely higher rating is fine

 

[LordTracer]

So to clarify is the garou he fought rated 7-B or at most 7-B? Kinda skimmed the replies

At most 7-B.

 

[ssgengar]

At most 7-B.

Ok, so is there an issue with “at most 7-B, likely higher”?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Ok, so is there an issue with “at most 7-B, likely higher”?

Yes, it implies that if he wasn’t holding back then shitstomping garou would only qualify for “at most 7-B”
It’s still downplay but technically is a compromise, just a bad one

 

[ZillertheBucko]

To
simplify the situation
Full power wdm>Bored Wdm>>>Garou
He upscales from garou, and then scales above that value when at full power

 

[Quantu]

What value of 7-B is human Garou at?

 

[ssgengar]

I understand the scaling chain and I agree with the likely higher ratings being given, I was just confused on what that garou scales to

 

[Quantu]

At most 7-B, likely higher is a contradiction.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

which is why we should just go with “7-B, likely higher”

 

[ZillertheBucko]

At most 7-B.

I agree with this

I agree with Lightning. Seems like a stretch

I...disagree

The Garou that he fought is "At most 7-B", him being 7-B is already an upscaling for defeating him while still holding back, he has no real stuff besides this, and part of the problem was that Garou's style doesn't match someone like Watchdog Man

Having no scenes with damage and other stuff doesn't mean much without more context, if anything, it will be used for reverse burden of proof, and I don't think I need to go into details on why that is wrong

Watchdog Man is one of those heroes where we barely got to see the full extent of his powers iirc, so I don't mind this.

I agree

Does anybody have anything to say regarding my counterarguments?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Wrong. The 7-B as opposed to at most 7-B comes from Garou having described watchdog man as having power and speed beyond anything he could have ever imagined

I could make the argument that he can “imagine” Silverfang’s power, so at least watchdog man was comparable to the strongest heroes he’d met up until that point, and he visibly was taking much more damage than he did against tank top master

For a dude on a dog cosplay, there is more than just that statement, Garou mentions how he was faster and stronger than he thought after he mentions how simple his appearance is:

"Who would've thought that a guy on a dog costume could be that strong"

Your just taking a sentence out of both context and proportion, saying "he can imagine Bang's power therefore Watchdog Man scales" is one of the biggest and most absurd no limits fallacy I ever saw. Your argument about Tanktop Master is also already being used, since he, just like Garou, is an At Most 7-B, Watchdog Man is already listed higher than him. We all get it, Watchdog Man still has more to show, but despite his poker face and OPM memes, he has no feats nor statements that would make him stronger than most dragons and S Class heroes, 7-B, like I said, is already an upscaling

To be fair, I actually agree with his speed being "At least Massively Hypersonic+", giving that Garou's own speed is already solid MHS+, no At most, no nothing, so Watchdog Man's section should be a step ahead of him, just like his AP already is

 

[ZillertheBucko]

For a dude on a dog cosplay, there is more than just that statement, Garou mentions how he was faster and stronger than he thought after he mentions how simple his appearance is:

"Who would've thought that a guy on a dog costume could be that strong"

Your just taking a sentence out of both context and proportion, saying "he can imagine Bang's power therefore Watchdog Man scales" is one of the biggest and most absurd no limits fallacy I ever saw.

Garou already knew bang’s power, it’s ridiculous that Garou would say watchdog man’s way more powerful than anything he could imagine when he literally knows about Silverfang. You completely missed the point of what I said. Following the trend of missing points completely…..

Your argument about Tanktop Master is also already being used, since he, just like Garou, is an At Most 7-B, Watchdog Man is already listed higher than him.

It should be painfully obvious what I mean, even when Garou was holding back he still didn’t get damage from ttm compared to what watchdog man did, Watchdog man beat him to almost dying, which indicates that he’s a lot stronger than other at most 7-B characters even when he’s holding back

To be fair, I actually agree with his speed being "At least Massively Hypersonic+", giving that Garou's own speed is already solid MHS+, no At most, no nothing, so Watchdog Man's section should be a step ahead of him, just like his AP already is

This is silly, watchdog man blatantly BLITZED him, you can’t even argue that he’s not upscaling from Garou already, and he would still get an added likely higher due to holding back.

Disregarding everything other outside piece of evidence there are two facts that you can’t deny. Garou said his power and speed were way beyond anything he could have ever imagined, warranting scaling above, and then on top of that he was holding back, warranting higher. Everything else is useless, because these two statements alone completely warrant a higher rating

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Watchdog man>Suppressed Watchdog Man>>Garou
he scales above him twice. it’s that simple

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Garou already knew bang’s power, it’s ridiculous that Garou would say watchdog man’s way more powerful than anything he could imagine when he literally knows about Silverfang. You completely missed the point of what I said. Following the trend of missing points completely…..

Again, a massive non limits fallacy

Again, you take his sentence out of context, Watchdog Man had more power than he thought, sure, but that was considering Garou's first impression/expectation of him, why are you so desperate for this, enough to push you to ignore the context ?

It should be painfully obvious what I mean, even when Garou was holding back he still didn’t get damage from ttm compared to what watchdog man did, Watchdog man beat him to almost dying, which indicates that he’s a lot stronger than other at most 7-B characters even when he’s holding back

It is obvious, yeah, the answer also is: Tanktop Master is At most 7-B, Watchdog Man is already listed as stronger than him and Garou

This is silly, watchdog man blatantly BLITZED him, you can’t even argue that he’s not upscaling from Garou already, and he would still get an added likely higher due to holding back.

Fair then

Disregarding everything other outside piece of evidence there are two facts that you can’t deny. Garou said his power and speed were way beyond anything he could have ever imagined, warranting scaling above, and then on top of that he was holding back, warranting higher. Everything else is useless, because these two statements alone completely warrant a higher rating

Your assuming the ratings are given by the number of scalings higher ? What happened with "At least" ? What happened with "Possibly Higher" ? You know both come first than "Likely Higher" right ? Your whole "system" contradicts itself even if we assume it's accurate. Let's be fair and take Garou's statement of a bad matchup aswell ? That makes this a Defeating Garou + Holding Back - Bad matchup = 1 scaling above, 7-B

The upscaling from At Most 7-B is already a rather big jump for someone with little to no feats

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Again, a massive non limits fallacy

Again, you take his sentence out of context, Watchdog Man had more power than he thought, sure, but that was considering Garou's first impression/expectation of him, why are you so desperate for this, enough to push you to ignore the context ?

It is obvious, yeah, the answer also is: Tanktop Master is At most 7-B, Watchdog Man is already listed as stronger than him and Garou

Fair then

Your assuming the ratings are given by the number of scalings higher ? What happened with "At least" ? What happened with "Possibly Higher" ? You know both come first than "Likely Higher" right ? Your whole "system" contradicts itself even if we assume it's accurate. Let's be fair and take Garou's statement of a bad matchup aswell ? That makes this a Defeating Garou + Holding Back - Bad matchup = 1 scaling above, 7-B

Missing the tank top master point again by ignoring the fact that he’s stronger even when holding back
Anyways, the bad matchup bs has nothing to do with AP, him failing martial arts doesn’t change the AP he scales to, it just makes his skill worse on that fight, making the point invalid.
Also, at least 7-B works, it’s virtually the same as “7-B, likely higher” and it basically semantics.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Bump

 

[ZillertheBucko]

bump

 

[Sisyphusx]

Going by the context the statement of garou saying wdm's power and speed was more than anything he could have imagined wasn't meant in general but as how garou imagined wdm to be or how strong he thought wdm would be and he was shocked that his power and speed were far higher than he thought

That's how wdm got his 7B rating as he was massively stronger than at most 7B garou in his NOT serious or suppressed form/mood
So "7B, Likely higher" rating seems reasonable here as full power wdm would obviously upscale his suppressed self

 

[ZillertheBucko]

bump

 

[ZillertheBucko]

bumper

 

[ZillertheBucko]

bump

 

[ZillertheBucko]

bump

 

[ZillertheBucko]

bump

 

[Aachintya31]

At most 7-B, likely higher is a contradiction.

Oops.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

let's just go with at least 7-B

 

[ZillertheBucko]

bump

 

[ZillertheBucko]

bump

 

[ZillertheBucko]

bump