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Warriors of Heaven and Hell: The Most Skilled on the Wiki!
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Not really sure what category he'd fall in here, plus as per Omega he's unsure if he can still beat Kanoh. But I suppose I can nominate Kengan characters (Ohma, Gensai and Kanoh.)
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Sad that Zero's precog is literally precog and not some crazy analytical pred
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Anos writing is pretty good, but he's no Yogiri tbh.
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Anus is really good
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aight I'll make another comment soon about some peeps who I think should be here. Also question, would people such as IP man and Bruce Lee be allowed to be here? They have a lot of media and plenty of stupid ass feats.
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Hmm, fair i guess. It's just a very weird stance to take.
Also i didn't say that was all the reasoning for Kojiro's votes, im just saying the very first vote's reason was that, and a lot of the latter votes were just FRA, but since that was the only reason above, it means they agree with the "ikki's skill isn't skill therefore i nominate Kojiro" (which also claimed that what ikki was using was extrasensory perception which is straight up wrong). It's just how FRA's work.
azontr
Any/All- 40,733
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- Thread starter
- #971
You find it a weird stance, I find it to be as fair as possible. I don't own the concept of skill. It's fair to allow other people's interpretations to influence something that in the end is quite subjective to many.
Also it doesn't mean that at all. Just because one person voted Kojiro for that reason doesn't mean the others did. It's all the more likely they voted him for me and Gin's reasons.
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To be fair all we've done so far as primarily compare Ikki’s Analytical Prediction to Sasaki's so far for the most part, and in that category I definitely feel like Sasaki takes the edge.
We really haven't gotten into swordsmanship, experience, dodging and accuracy. I think a good compromise would be to hold separate threads for people who want to take the place of other characters where the categories are addressed fully, I suppose that way we can come to a conclusion easier without flooding the thread itself.
We really haven't gotten into swordsmanship, experience, dodging and accuracy. I think a good compromise would be to hold separate threads for people who want to take the place of other characters where the categories are addressed fully, I suppose that way we can come to a conclusion easier without flooding the thread itself.
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There was no other reason though. A reason would require a vote, before the first vote, it is all debate.
I would be down for that, a thread is already up on it.
AP is just 1 category of what you said there are many, so im not sure how that one goes. Even in just AP the winner is very unclear, so just by virtue of your 1-5 point system, ikki takes it, simply because he would be a 5 in a lot of categories that Kojiro is either not impressive at or outright lacks.
And if the argument is "well just AP alone would make Kojiro be more skilled than ikki" well then that would turn the question to "who would win in a skill fight?", which isn't the debate we've been doing so we'd have to hop on the thread.
azontr
Any/All- 40,733
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- #975
Points made in debate are reasons to vote, dude.
And I've repeated this again, but, Kojiro is different in the way that his Analytical Prediction encompasses the whole of his skill. He uses Thousand Image Defense for every fight and it's how he trains and grows mid fight. His dodging comes from it, his insane experience comes from it, his precision comes from it, etc. In the literal sense, his analytical prediction is practically all of his skill, it covers all of the required points.
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Gonna nominate two firearm users from Hidan no Aria that might make the gun list. Although not sure which spot, if any.
First Kinji Tohyama.
He has various feats, like drawing his gun so fast its invisible or catching bullets. But his best skill feat might be the exponential bullet storm.
It is something performed in a fight with Holmes.
Basically, Holmes would shoot bullets at Kinji. Kinji would then shoot bullets of his own at the bullets Holmes shot, so that Holmes bullets ricochet back at him.
Kinji would then for each bullet he bounced back, add another bullet of his own so that the number of bullets flying towards Holmes doubled.
Holmes would do the same.
So, first Holmes shoots one bullet and Kinji makes it so that 2 bullets fly back towards him.
Then Holmes would bounce those bullets back and double the number of bullets again, so now 4 bullets were flying at Kinji.
So Kinji would now hit 4 bullets mid-air and again double the number at Holmes, so that Holmes now has to bounce back 8.
And so on.
At their peak, they each shot down 128 bullets or more before they reached them, making each bullet precisely ricochet back at their opponent.
Makes you wonder how much ammunition those guys carry...
Second is Reki.
In a range of 2051 meters she will never miss a shot.
She can hit a nerve center of a military-trained wolf while driving with a motorcycle around a corner.
She can also leave indentical exactly 3cm long, 3mm deep, 3cm high wounds on the legs of hunting dogs while fighting them as a sign.
She once disabled a bomb under a driving bus, by shooting a screw of the bomb from a helicopter flying beside the bridge the bus was on, through the railing of the bridge.
Reki can bounce her bullets around corners. She once hit a button on Kinji's uniform while just seeing his reflection on a metal plate of her wolf, which was reflected on the pole of a street sign. She then bounced her bullet off the pole and then again off the metal plate to shoot said button.
Reki can penetrate armored cars by shooting the exact same spot against and again, hammering the bullet slowly through the armor.
She can also get out of cover, aim at an opponent hidden over 2000m away in a forest, and get back into cover in a timeframe less than what it would need for the opponent's bullet to cover the distance between them. Quite impressive for someone with human speed.
She also has explosive bullets and can propel herself over large distances by basically performing a rocket jump.
Lastly, Reki is actually trained in being a realistic sniper, which is rare in fiction. Staying for hours in cover, while it gets colder and colder, without moving an inch always staying ready for that one opportunity to shoot? Yep, she does stuff like that.
First Kinji Tohyama.
He has various feats, like drawing his gun so fast its invisible or catching bullets. But his best skill feat might be the exponential bullet storm.
It is something performed in a fight with Holmes.
Basically, Holmes would shoot bullets at Kinji. Kinji would then shoot bullets of his own at the bullets Holmes shot, so that Holmes bullets ricochet back at him.
Kinji would then for each bullet he bounced back, add another bullet of his own so that the number of bullets flying towards Holmes doubled.
Holmes would do the same.
So, first Holmes shoots one bullet and Kinji makes it so that 2 bullets fly back towards him.
Then Holmes would bounce those bullets back and double the number of bullets again, so now 4 bullets were flying at Kinji.
So Kinji would now hit 4 bullets mid-air and again double the number at Holmes, so that Holmes now has to bounce back 8.
And so on.
At their peak, they each shot down 128 bullets or more before they reached them, making each bullet precisely ricochet back at their opponent.
Makes you wonder how much ammunition those guys carry...
Second is Reki.
In a range of 2051 meters she will never miss a shot.
She can hit a nerve center of a military-trained wolf while driving with a motorcycle around a corner.
She can also leave indentical exactly 3cm long, 3mm deep, 3cm high wounds on the legs of hunting dogs while fighting them as a sign.
She once disabled a bomb under a driving bus, by shooting a screw of the bomb from a helicopter flying beside the bridge the bus was on, through the railing of the bridge.
Reki can bounce her bullets around corners. She once hit a button on Kinji's uniform while just seeing his reflection on a metal plate of her wolf, which was reflected on the pole of a street sign. She then bounced her bullet off the pole and then again off the metal plate to shoot said button.
Reki can penetrate armored cars by shooting the exact same spot against and again, hammering the bullet slowly through the armor.
She can also get out of cover, aim at an opponent hidden over 2000m away in a forest, and get back into cover in a timeframe less than what it would need for the opponent's bullet to cover the distance between them. Quite impressive for someone with human speed.
She also has explosive bullets and can propel herself over large distances by basically performing a rocket jump.
Lastly, Reki is actually trained in being a realistic sniper, which is rare in fiction. Staying for hours in cover, while it gets colder and colder, without moving an inch always staying ready for that one opportunity to shoot? Yep, she does stuff like that.
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AP by default gives a lot of things to someone, like good dodging. However what it doesn't give people is information analysis, skill copying and a bunch of other things which are VERY noteworthy skill components. So I will ask you again, is the debate which one is better in all categories or who would win in a fight?
azontr
Any/All- 40,733
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- Thread starter
- #979
Kojiro's Thousand Image defense is both Information Analysis and skill copying(though the skill copying aspect is inferior to Ikki's I will admit).
And again, the debate is subjective and up to interpretation. I'm not making any ironclad rules on that, I've told you this, people are free to choose whoever they want to choose and people have voted. At this point you are just grasping at straws.
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Hmmm... 3rd for Reki, 4th for Kinji maybe?
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SP = Spiritual Energy, MP = Magical Energy, Life Force = Physical Energy.
It doesn't even pop up on status screens like SP and MP, it's taught through physical and mental training (Unlike Magic and especially skills), and it's something that anyone can learn theoretically given enough time and dedication.
That's why I'd say even if there are some life-force techniques that can't be considered skill, I think the sensing of life force is as fair as any other enhanced sense.
I completely forgot about this, but Life Force energy is actually described as skill energy at one point kek. That definitely makes it physical stuffs in my mind.
Link to that.
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Up to interpretation? So who would win in a fight is a way one could get the spot?
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Now we're talking. @Bobsican Imma challenge you for first place with Rex Salazar!
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Ima go ahead and nomate the Ultimate Beard for third in traditional martial arts, I believe he was ranked third in the last skill thread for it with Hayato and Yujiro above him.
Kuroki "The Devil Lance" Gensei.
Reactions/Analytical Prediction
Stops 5 of Kiryu's attacks with one clean movement.
Able to predict Kiryus plethora of attacks that come from unorthodox angles, intentionally tanks a hit so he can retaliate with a Devil Lance to finish him off.
Reacts to Rei's Raishin style despite 'no one ever being able to'
Rei who is significantly faster then Kuroki states that his defense is flawless and he cant land a hit.
Even when Rei somehow surpassed his limits and got even faster, Kuroki is still able to predict his movement.
Rei gets even faster again to where no one can even see him moving and Kuroki casually predicts his movements once more and gives us the killer line 'He who can only strike what he sees is a second rate martial artist'
Despite the entire point of the 'Formless Style' being that it's impossible to predict, Kuroki's forsight is still able to predict Kanoh's attacks.
Ohma completely changes the trajectory and direction of his attack at the last moment but doesn't lose any speed at all while doing so, Kanoh still reacts to this.
Technique:
Considered to have reached the absolute peak of Martial Arts. Will effectively always use the right move at the right time without even needing to think.
Capable of 'performing the impossible with ease' uses the force of his own attack to reset his dislocated elbow.
Baited Kanoh into using his ultimate almost impossible to avoid one inch punch and breaks Kanoh's wrist, deflecting the force of the blow through his right hand, which is broken. However Kanoh merely uses his immense body control to force his muscles to contract into a fist once more.
Drops his arm on purpose to bait Rei into an attack, where he throws a devistating counter towards his chest, ending the fight.
Defeats Kiryu despite handicaping himself immensely.
His ability to block attack rushes is truly crazy. Ohma is spamming water kata attacks and he casually blocks them all. Blocks Rei's high speed attack rush.
Even while Kiryu is amped by Fallen Demon and Kuroki is off balance, he still blocks the attack and land a Devil Lance counter.
Strength:
Even while his fingers are broken and Kanoh is using 'indesctructible' to soften Kanoh's blows, they are still sending him reeling.
Miscellaneous:
Makes elaborate statues with his hands for fun.
Somehow able to react to gunfire from point blank range, moving a jar of sand to deflect the path of the bullet, which he calls 'slow'
Im pretty sure I have massively under played him too.
Kuroki "The Devil Lance" Gensei.
Reactions/Analytical Prediction
Stops 5 of Kiryu's attacks with one clean movement.
Able to predict Kiryus plethora of attacks that come from unorthodox angles, intentionally tanks a hit so he can retaliate with a Devil Lance to finish him off.
Reacts to Rei's Raishin style despite 'no one ever being able to'
Rei who is significantly faster then Kuroki states that his defense is flawless and he cant land a hit.
Even when Rei somehow surpassed his limits and got even faster, Kuroki is still able to predict his movement.
Rei gets even faster again to where no one can even see him moving and Kuroki casually predicts his movements once more and gives us the killer line 'He who can only strike what he sees is a second rate martial artist'
Despite the entire point of the 'Formless Style' being that it's impossible to predict, Kuroki's forsight is still able to predict Kanoh's attacks.
Ohma completely changes the trajectory and direction of his attack at the last moment but doesn't lose any speed at all while doing so, Kanoh still reacts to this.
Technique:
Considered to have reached the absolute peak of Martial Arts. Will effectively always use the right move at the right time without even needing to think.
Capable of 'performing the impossible with ease' uses the force of his own attack to reset his dislocated elbow.
Baited Kanoh into using his ultimate almost impossible to avoid one inch punch and breaks Kanoh's wrist, deflecting the force of the blow through his right hand, which is broken. However Kanoh merely uses his immense body control to force his muscles to contract into a fist once more.
Drops his arm on purpose to bait Rei into an attack, where he throws a devistating counter towards his chest, ending the fight.
Defeats Kiryu despite handicaping himself immensely.
His ability to block attack rushes is truly crazy. Ohma is spamming water kata attacks and he casually blocks them all. Blocks Rei's high speed attack rush.
Even while Kiryu is amped by Fallen Demon and Kuroki is off balance, he still blocks the attack and land a Devil Lance counter.
Strength:
Even while his fingers are broken and Kanoh is using 'indesctructible' to soften Kanoh's blows, they are still sending him reeling.
Miscellaneous:
Makes elaborate statues with his hands for fun.
Somehow able to react to gunfire from point blank range, moving a jar of sand to deflect the path of the bullet, which he calls 'slow'
Im pretty sure I have massively under played him too.
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Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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Who the **** would even think that this is a skill feat LOL
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Skilled liar kek
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I think the Kojiro vs Ikki debate should be done more cleanly in the thread that Earl created. It seems more fair that way, and allows for easier navigation through the arguments while keeping this thread on topic.
I can understand Earl's frustration here.
I can understand Earl's frustration here.
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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Ngl you're awfully confusing at answering shit.
I asked you "is the judgement based on who would win or who is better in more categories"
You say "up to interpretation on what ppl decide is skill"
That doesn't answer my question brother.
Tryna understand the rules here.
I asked you "is the judgement based on who would win or who is better in more categories"
You say "up to interpretation on what ppl decide is skill"
That doesn't answer my question brother.
Tryna understand the rules here.
azontr
Any/All- 40,733
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- #997
I'll be fair and say yeah I was sorta not clear on answering this.
I did not make this thread with the premise of having skill battles. The F&G threads were meant to compare who had more impressive skill overall, not who would win in a fight when limited to strictly combat skill. (Kojiro is always limited to that anyway).
So to answer your question, no, this is not judged on who wins fights. Unless you want it to be, I guess. I'm open for suggestions on new rules, as said previously.
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