• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Warhammer 40k: General round of corrections

Crabwhale

Wasteland Gravetender
VS Battles
Administrator
11,191
12,455
Right, so I've recently gotten into Warhammer, but I can't help but notice that a lot of our pages have problems with them. Some are not so bad, but still need correction, while others actually seriously affect the quality of these things.

So, to prevent myself and any other poor sod who's interested in this from losing their minds following 600 million different threads, I'll instead compress all my problems in a neat, clean, compact little package.

So, without further ado:

The Problem with Space Marines
So, as one might have noticed, the SPEHS MAHRINES are High 8-C to High 6-C. But there are numerous problems with their current rating.

First of all, no calcs at all in the profile itself. The High 8-C rating is particularly egregious as it's justification makes no sense at first glance. I am told that calcs DO exist, however that brings us into our next problem:

The High 8-C rating is blatantly wrong. The redone calc apparently gives them only 8-C, but unfortunately I have no way to check this as I have no idea how to find it. Regardless, should this be true (and it likely is) it should be corrected, along with the other calcs being linked as well.

I would also like to take the time to clarify that this doesn't just affect the Space Marine themselves, but also the Custodes and Sororitas who scale from them directly.

Circlescaling
Now, this is not neccesarily the biggest problem ever to exist ever, but the amount of pages you have to go through to find the calcs that are linked are just absurd. Any of the Primarchs, or most powerful Champion Chaos Marines, nearly all link to their respective same character (Ka'Bandha for the Primarchs, Khar for the Chaos Marines and the few Marines that are compared to him). I think it would be far better to simply suply the calcs anyway rather than let someone navigate through a nightmarishly long list of characters to find the calcs that justify them.

As a side project, the calcs could also be added to the verse page as we do with numerous other complicated series with an enormous amount of scaling.

Conclusion
So those are my problems with the verse. I will admit I'm not the most experienced with it, so I may have goofed at some point, but nonetheless I finally got it out.
 
I actually talked to Matt on Discord about this far before I made it. He seems completely ok with it.
 
Okay, so according to those calcs the average Marine needs to be 8-C unarmed and 6-C with the Bolter and any comparable and superior piece of equipment.

That's neat I guess.
 
Also, we should probably have a feats section for those other non-calc related blogs you posted.
 
>remembers that Bolters are just bullet-based weapons<

>calcs are about vaporizing and stuffs<


Oh, I am a dumm.
 
Bolters are just space marine tier. I've been looking for the High 8-C calc for a while when could never find it, so that lot of good. Be sure to edit the Officio Assassinorum.

Madail is prinarchs, some daemons, Abaddon, kharn's durability, and a few others like the emperor, eldrad, and the yncarne. Ahriman, Kharn's AP, etc scale to a Lord of change calc.
 
Yeah but a bolter didn't get called at vaporising an ocean. That was a plasma weapon.
 
I'm not saying the stat itself is incorrect (Moving faster than the eye as described seems like a decently solid argument), but the calc that links to Subsonic Space Marines is... well, wrong. 16.5 m/s is not Subsonic.
 
Dvorak1902 said:
I'm not saying the stat itself is incorrect (Moving faster than the eye as described seems like a decently solid argument), but the calc that links to Subsonic Space Marines is... well, wrong. 16.5 m/s is not Subsonic.
This seems to be correct.
 
I think I may wait until Azzy sees this before going ahead and doing the thing.
 
Space marines should be 8-C, yeah. Or possibly "At least 8-C", since the 8-C calc would be substantially less than what space marines can do to another space marine, so that may work better. Affects everything that currently scales to space marines, obviously.

The reason that the heaviest weapons are currently High 6-C instead of 6-C is due to a similar calc made before operating under the exact same circumstances resulting in 340+ gigatons. AN even mentioned in the comments that we should probably go with this calc due to being a bit more precise. However, whatever the proper one is, we should probably finalize it so that we have a universal calc to conveniently link on pages where it's relevant.

Space marines definitely have subsonic movement, as crossing several meters so fast that normal humans don't see you move until you reach your destination should definitely count as that, but if the calc is incorrect we can remove it.

I agree that adding the relevant calcs to more pages is a good idea. The following calc is also an extremely important one, as it is the one everyone who is Primarch tier scales to.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Assaltwaffle/Warhammer_40K:_The_Giant_Drink_Coaster
 
I don't think they mean the calc is incorrect so much as it doesn't qualify for Subsonic in of itself, only Superhuman.
 
Crabwhale said:
I don't think they mean the calc is incorrect so much as it doesn't qualify for Subsonic in of itself, only Superhuman.
"Talos ignored the body as it toppled, spilling the insides of its halved skull onto the decking. No one had even seen him move, such was the prophet's speed, clearing ten metres and vaulting a console table in the time it took a human heart to beat once."

I believe that "moving so fast human eyes cannot perceive you as you clear ten metres and jump a table" is well beyond just superhuman.
 
Human perception is 60 FPS, so to move within less then a frame, the timeframe is 0.01666666666666 Seconds.

10 divided by 0.01666666666666 is...

roughly 600 meters per second, Mach 1.74927113702623, Techically not Subsonic
 
That's not actually true for human perception though. There was some fighter pilot training at speeds far exceeding that, let me see if I can grab the link.

Also anecdotally I can notice a difference between 90 and 60 fps.
 
>1000 FPS

we've gone from Supersonic to High Hypersonic in a blink now haven't we
 
Ogbunabali said:
Well actually the human eye can perceive up to 1000 frames per second.
Can we get a source on this chief?
 
I mean you can google it, it's not really a mystery. There have been a lot of research and articles done about this.
 
Still, I think moving faster than what the actual eye can perceive completely seems a bit bongers. Maybe time in-between blinks would be better?

I dunno, I might be making a big deal out of nothing, casual Marines do swat hypersonic weapons out of the air all the time after all.
 
It outright says it was too fast to see, so I think it should be fine

Allow me to hecking put this on a blog
 
I agree that using "too fast to see" shouldn't be used. Not only is that a common hyperbole, but actually moving faster than you can see relies on so many factors that calculating without literally knowing everything will lead to inflated results. I think the heart beat would be better to use as a calc than anything.
 
Back
Top