1. When does he say that he wasn't serious?
Pre-Hallway Bowser fight: "Gwaa ha ha ha ha!! If it isn't my old pal, Mario! I've been waiting for you... I've amazed that you managed to come this far. How lucky... for me. You've been a distraction for far too long, little man! It'll be a pleasure to squash you personally! Again! Fool! You can't beat me! I'm inviiiiincible! Gwaaaaah ha ha ha!!! All right, Mario! Let's see your so-called power!"
What do you think it being a warm up means? There's no world where you say that when you're balls to the wall.
And he was more or less fine after the fight too mind you.
When Hallway Bowser gets debuffed by the Star Beam: "What the... OW! What in the world was that? Goooah? What happened to the power of that stupid Star Rod?"
Sucks then how you're arguing that didn't happen and Mario just punched through it.
When Hallway Bowser gets hit after the Star Beam debuffs him: "Graaaargh! You cheap little... coward!! This fight's just beginning!"
After Hallway Bowser's defeat: "Gosh, you're not bad! How'd you get so strong? Still, you're just an annoyance. That was like a warm-up for me.".
Yeah, except, again, sucks you're arguing that didn't happen.
Also, if he was debuffed, which you're acknowledging in your argument here, then how does that mean Mario hit through the invul? He didn't, he used the macguffin beam. It doesn't matter if he "isn't bad" anymore, if he was hitting normal Koops, not Invul Koops.
The arguments are beginning to become contradictory.
Bowser is entirely overconfident before the fight starts, as he always is, even going so far as to assert he's invincible before using the Star Rod!
& Hallway Bowser can buff himself with the Star Rod, & Mario & co. CAN take attacks from it & hit through it.
Now you're contradicting yourself.
You JUST finished acknowledging they debuffed his ass, but now you're back to just brute forcing past it.
Bowser calls them "not bad" & "so strong".
Yeah, why wouldn't he? That doesn't change the fact the INVINCIBILITY is framed as making him INVINCIBLE.
Of course Mario is strong, that isn't the argument here though. Ignoring how he follows that up with Mario being a nuisance, not a legit threat still but eh.
It is the intended way, but it's possible for devs for to make multiple intended ways. It isn't until the Power Pad's use that Bowser using the Star Rod makes him LITERALLY invulnerable.
Except, wrong, they acknowledge the fact he DID do it, whether or not you, the player, did so.
Mario used Star Beam, no shit he used Star Beam that's the point of the game. He didn't secretly not use it, so all this "well he doesn't HAVE to" is just a waste of time, you know how it happened, the game says it happened, so he did. Non-canonical alt ways that in and of themselves is framed as just that, non-canonical based on following dialogue, doesn't mean much. Like, I know you **** with Zelda so using that as an example, you can beat Majora with Young Link, but that doesn't change the fact the actual canon way is Fierce Deity.
I literally did, twice. The Star Rod? The thing they literally say is why?
Both Hallway & Power Pad Bowser can use the Star Rod to boost themselves.
Yep and both become invincible.
They even both have the Star Rod's shockwave attack that hits partners. (The lightning attack only being used by PP Bowser, AFAIK.)
I'm not arguing tanking attacks, I'm arguing the invincibility shit.
The only thing that changes is Bowser himself getting innately stronger via the Power Pad.
Yep.
Koops? Do you mean Kooper? Or Koopa, the Japanese name of Bowser?
& when does Kooper or whoever say that?
Heck, I can't find anyone saying they're going all-out.
Bowser obviously, and he says "full-power of the star rod".
"Gwaaa ha ha ha ha!! Welcome to your nightmare! You should thank me, Mario. Since you've been my rival for so long, I've arranged a special arena for your defeat! Gwaa ha ha!!! Like it? You're completely trapped! How does it feel, huh?"
Yep, and?
Goombario only says about hallway Bowser (Who is before he gets the Power Pad boost.), says "He's strong enough as it is, but I'm sure he can use that Star Rod to increase his power until he's nearly invincible.".
Yes, that NEARLY part of the statement is in DIRECT REFERENCE to the STAR BEAM not Mario grinding out to level 99 or hitting through it and dealing 5x less damage anyway.
We know this because in the following scene they explain that the thing he's vulnerable to is the Star Beam, but now, that won't be the case so he's 100% invincible.
Do you you really not get this dude? Mario isn't a factor here, they make it clear that Star Beam is the thing that makes him "nearly", and when that isn't an option, he's now completely invincible. This is what the dialogue says.
For Power Pad boosted Bowser, the Star Beam does seem necessary, but not for Hallway Bowser.
For power pad bows the star beam DOESN'T WORK anymore, it's why he's now framed as completely invincible, they literally say this. It was necessary for Hallway, now it just dosn't work and they're like oh shit what do we do?
Or it could be because there are attacks that can actually damage him?
Except no? Kammy LITERALLY explains why? And multiple partners exclaim helplessness once the star beam doesn't work? Like dude, the game is all but shoving down your throat what's happening.
& again, this could just mean that Mario & co. are strong enough to overcome Bowser + Star Rod boost, but not Bowser + Star Rod boost + Power Pad boost.
"Could" this "should" that, I don't want opinionated conjecture.
That ISN'T what the game says.
Kammy explicitly makes it clear
"Did you think we were foolish
enough to just sit back and
watch as you saved the Star
Spirits?
I've put together a little
surprise for you...a device that
increases Bowser's power!
King Bowser will be so powerful
that not even the power of the
Star Spirits can compare!
He'll now truly be invincible..."
The game frames the issues as the Star Spirits, because yeah no shit that's the plot of the game.
Kammy is explaining how they Mario was collecting the Star Spirits, how the Star Beam is an issue, but now it won't compare and he's TRULY invicible now.
This entire line of text doesn't make sense if Mario himself could just beat the **** out of him without having used Star Beam, but we KNOW he did, come phase 2, when you're scripted to use Star Beam. Bows himself says
"
That weak attack doesn't affect me anymore!".
The addition of anymore directly implicates it was on him before, the only time that was possible, was like, 20 seconds ago in the Hallway fight.
But that's not at all,
Oh, we're hurting, Mario!
The Star Beam doesn't work!
Oh no, Mario!
The Star Beam isn't working!
What's the matter?
Why won't the Star Beam work?
Uh-oh, this is a problem!
The Star Beam's ineffective!
Well, don't just stand there
staring at the sky, Mario!
The Star Beam doesn't work!
Think of something!
Oh no!! We're in trouble!
The Star Beam doesn't work?
Oh, that bad monster is gonna
beat us up now for sure...
Oh, this is no good!
The Star Beam doesn't work!
What'll we do, Mario!?
Oh man, just what we need!!
The Star Beam's broken!
What're we gonna do, man?
In phase 2, when you use the Star Beam, and it doesn't work, every single partner instantly goes oh shit, with some of them straightup going "ok well wtf do we do now?".
Why would they act like that if Mario could just hit through it? They frame this as "oh no the star beam doesn't work, there's nothing else we can do!", and then the fight just ends there and goes into the cutscene to get Peach Beam.
You're legitimately arguing the "nearly" part of Goombario's line covers the fact Mario is just super strong and can punch him in the dick, when everying immediately following it makes it obvious they just meant Star Beam.
Also just wanna say, power pad only boosts his def to 2, literally less than the hall way Star Rod in-game buff. If we're legit arguing gameplay def stats and stuff and blatantly non-canonical methods, Bows should only have 5-6 defense given you lads legit argued the Star rod buff is only +3 defense, and thus any attack that deals 6-7 damage should get through still, yet it don't, that isn't how the game frames it, is it?
Heck, Goombario's dialogue for Hallway Bowser does not even MENTION the Star Beam. Him bringing it up supports the argument that it isn't necessary in THAT case, but in both Power Pad Bowser Tattles, he treats it as mandatory.
Because it's so obvious that the fact you're even arguing this is legitimate baffling to me?
Like dude, that fight is IMMEDIATELY followed by them talking as if he used Star Beam, and the only way past the invul is Star Beam, and Kammy talks about the Star Beam as the fucky that made him not invincible but now that it don't work he will be. Why does Goombario need to specify the plot of the game?
& if we're taking Kammy's word, she says "King Bowser will be so powerful that not even the power of the Star Spirits can compare!"
This would suggest this boost is putting in a lot of work, as though the boost is more than what the Star Rod gives him.
You're outright missing the forest for a lone singular tree, there's no "suggesting" here.
The boost isn't even basic attacks can hurt him just fine, why cling to gameplay yet ignore it suddenly?
Also, wrong, you yourself brought up defense stats, Power Pad Koops has 2 Def, Hallway Bows has 1, yet Hallway Star Rod has 4. The boost very blatantly
isn't above what the Star Rod gives him.
Bowser even says after its activated that he feels incredible & like he's "exploding with power", BEFORE using the Star Rod! It is clearly a huge boost.
Yeah, it is, and?
It's a many times boost even, that don't matter to the argument of the invul though.
It's still a boost that Mario and friends can still take on just fine. The instant he uses the Star Rod he's invincible.
Again, Koops?
& my point was that Mario gets stronger. Lightning from the Star Rod left him in a grave but recoverable (Even without Star Spirit healing, according to Mamar.) state.
But by the time of Hallway Bowser, Mario & co. can take Star Rod powered attacks & keep fighting. He's clearly gotten stronger enough that he can overcome that.
King Koopa.
I don't care, I'm not arguing that, I never even mentioned that shit, why are you even bringing it up? I'm arguing Mario canonically can't hit through the invul and uses Star Beam.
The dialogue treats Star Rod boosted Power Pad Bowser as though he's Invulnerable, not Star Rod boosted Hallway Bowser as though he's Invulnerable.
No it does, both ways really.
"I'm invincible with this Star Rod,
didn't you know?
Mario's no match for me!
He's history. Get over it."
"It doesn't matter, because
while you hold the Star Rod
you are definitely invincible."
The game spends its whole run time doubling down on the Star Rod granting invulnerability.
Mario must go around collecting Star Spirits to overcome that.
When Mario fights him again, they attack him, deal damage, and Koops goes "aight star rod time", getting the buff.
The game expects you use the move you spent the WHOLE PLOT getting, Star Beam, on him.
Doing so negates the invul, and you fight him normally. all while cutscenes and text plays for doing so.
Goombario calls him nearly invincible, but assuming he means you can just kick his ass normally and not the pretty blatant in response to the fact you just spent a whole game with him collecting shit to overcome that invul which negs it, is beyond generous conjecture.
Phase 2 preceeds with Kammy explaining how they knew Mario was getting Star Spirits, but now, even they won't work, and thus he will be truly invincible (as opposed to "nearly").
She's right, Star Beam doesn't work and everyone instantly goes well **** and a few even voice how they don't know what to do now, something that wouldn't happen if Mario secretly just punches through that buff.
It's also framed pretty explicitly as if Mario used it on Koop before, regardless of what you the player did, making the narrative intent evident.
I legit don't get this, this is a blatant case.
Not to mention, Bowser's character betrays something I think.
I think, isn't an argument. And it isn't just him, it's him, Kammy, Peach, the Star Spirits, like half the partners....
He's always overconfident before his fights, & when he gets debuffed, he acts surprised, says the fight is just beginning, & then when he loses that fight, calls them "not bad", "strong", & says this was just a "warm-up".
Yeah? Because he was debuffed?
If he got DEBUFFED, and then says that, which is what's supposed to happen. Him saying "wow you're strong" doesn't act as evidence for hitting through the buff that canonically wasn't there anymore?
& then proceeds to flee to get his boost.
Yeah and?
If it really was just a warm-up for him, he would be able to get serious & beat Mario & company with only moderate effort, despite their strength he espoused.
He was legitimately fine after the fight? And you keep forgetting they DEBUFFED him, they have a magic star attack that invalidates the Star Rod.
No shit he'd lose if he stayed and kept fighting forever. But you're acting like that means anything for the argument, it doesn't, as they nullify his buffs?
But instead his actions show he needs more power, even despite him using the Star Rod, & his overconfidence clearly having faltered.
Yeah because they have the STAR BEAM.
Half of what you said is contradictory. You act as if Mario never used the Star Beam and just beats the shit out of him, and even when you acknowledge he has Star Beam, like here "& when he gets debuffed, he acts surprised, says the fight is just beginning, & then when he loses that fight, calls them
"not bad", "strong", & says this was just a "warm-up". But ignore that if he got debuffed, it doesn't matter if Mario and co can hurt him now, because the invul isn't there.
Like I'm not sure what you want me to say here. You're ignoring the whole plot of the game, and everything everyone says in that scene and following it in regards to the invinibility, Star Spirits and negation, all for a "well MAYBE this might have happened?", which doesn't even work because linguistics confirm they used it.
