Hulk upgrade: Gamma uproar part 1

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I’ve recently checked out Banners page and it seems a bit outdated, not only messing new versions of jade jaws but using an outdated vid for proof of hulks “peak”(which he doesn’t really have as you’ll see in the thread).

First let’s start with savage hulk and his fights with blondie


This video is kinda weird, while it is true that a large majority of there fights are inconclusive or draws the ones he dose counts as W’s for Thor he doesn’t to do the same for hulk. For example in Hulk annual 2001 Thor dose knock out hulk which counts as a win(later hulk wakes up on his own) but when hulk Ko’s Thor he retracts hulk’s win after Thor wakes up. Or in 385 were the fight is basically just a stalemate and counts it as a w for Thor. He even counts a non cannon fight as a cannon fight w for Thor(hammer snew). In general this vid seems a bit poorly researched and biased considering his conclusion.


While this section of the thread might seem bit much considering hulk and Thor do scale to each other and all that this is manly to help prove my next point. Savage Hulk doesn’t have a peak and it surely isn’t just as base Thor lvl. While hulk and Thor have gone head to head before, but due to hulk’s more varying levels of strength his also taken on Thor or Thor lvl characters with back up multiple times. For example in Avengers vs Agents of Atlas 2010 hulk takes on the combined might of the avengers and the agents of atlas and holds his own pretty well and even manhandles Thor at one point.

In Hulk Smash Avenger 2012 again jade jaws holds his own and even needs the combined might of giant man,Ironman and Thor to restrain him but the moment pym lets go hulk breaks there hold.In the Incredible Hulk #322 (1986) a mindless hulk fights off the avengers(this time consisting of Hercules,namor,Captain America,Ironman,wonder man,she hulk,tigra and the wasp) and even try to straight up kill him near the end only nearly succeeding due to him slowly dying thanks to him being separated from banner.


And there’s many more examples here:https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/hulk-is-stronger-than-thor-2228378/

So as you can tell savage hulk going above thor in strength isn’t to uncommon. Now that’s settled let’s switch over to another hulk. Good ole joe fixit or should I say sunlight joe

In all Ewing’s immortal hulk run Fixit ended up abasorbing sone cosmic radiation to make for his lack of gamma and ended up getting a massive perma amp. He ends up celebrating his return to glory but then the avengers so up and you guessed it they fight. But this time aided by an incomplete all father Thor who along with the rest of the avengers are bloodlusted due to werid gamma magic.

Spoiler

Immortal hulk issue 46-47

He gets jumped agian by an even larger group of avengers and tanks their onslaught of attacks.

Spoiler

Immortal Hulk issue 49

Pretty nutty upgrade for joe.


But now let’s get back to jade jaws, in the final issue of Immortal hulk savage hulk and joe gets sent down to the below place to face the leader in a final battle. Before they can get to him they have to break down leaders door. Joe tries to break it but doesn’t even put a dent in it

Spoiler

Immortal Hulk issue 50

Savage hulk ends up putting his strength to the test and ends up breaking the door down(granted he does break his hand in the process)

Spoiler

Immortal Hulk issue 50

Later big green gets controlled be the leader and is forced to fight joe and he kind of pummels him(joe isn’t fighting back but hulk is still putting the hurt on him)

Spoiler

Immortal Hulk issue 50

Leader even goes as far as to call savage hulk the strongest among them. Pretty simple scaling.

Spoiler

Immortal Hulk issue 50

Savage hulk even later goes on to fight a fully powered od force Thor who was straight up going full power

Spoiler

Link 1
Link 2
Hulk (2021 series) #7 (Part 3)

Savage hulk’s power has even been stated to potentially surpass the power of celestials

Spoiler

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JQe56K5otGk/VsV587n-exI/AAAAAAAABlk/LRx31ReVoxQ/s0-Ic42/RCO022.jpg
The Incredible Hulk 1968 Issue 456

Savage hulk should be bumped up to 2-A and sunlight/cosmic joe should get his key and put at 2-A .

 

[Damage3245]

Please re-title the thread to something more appropriate.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Please re-title the thread to something more appropriate.

It’s a work in progress what else am I supposed to call it?

 

[Damage3245]

It’s a work in progress what else am I supposed to call it?

You're not supposed to post it if it the thread is a Work in Progress...

We have a Sandbox section in the forum that this could have gone in instead.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

You're not supposed to post it if it the thread is a Work in Progress...

We have a Sandbox section in the forum that this could have gone in instead.

The only reason why it’s a WIP is cuz I didn’t want to loss my progress any time my window reset(doing this from mobile) I’ll already got everything type out I’m just put in links and images

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Ok, now it’s done

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Bump

 

[Excellence616]

Following. But please, try and restructure this CRT well to be a bit more presentable and readable.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Following. But please, try and restructure this CRT well to be a bit more presentable and readable.

What would you suggest that I should change?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Just to put it out there, a relatively recent comic explicitly establishes that Thor practically always held back against Hulk, so I'm still not 100% convinced about the first part of the OP

That's all the input I have time to give right now

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Just to put it out there, a relatively recent comic explicitly establishes that Thor practically always held back against Hulk, so I'm still not 100% convinced about the first part of the OP

That's all the input I have time to give right now

Ya that’s bull(I’ll also be going over that comic in the second part of this dose will) Thor has straight either tried to kill banner, go full power cuz he has no other choice or be mind controlled

Spoiler: Examples

Bill hasn’t seen every fight Thor’s been in. Dose odinson hold back? Yes, all the time? Hell no. Plus it’s not like banner doesn’t hold hulk back.

 

[Antvasima]

The problem is that the Hulk has nowhere near the scale of feats that Thor does, so their fights largely seem to be cases of "everybody can fight everybody" plot-induced stupidity, much like the fights between the Hulk and Wolverine, especially as even the World War Hulk incarnation was effortlessly beaten by Zeus, and Hulk was later somebody still able to fight skyfather/Odinforce Thor almost evenly.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I don't agree with their fights falling in the same category as "Spider-Man can fight the Beyonder if the writer says so" type PIS. Them being physical rivals is pretty consistent.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but Hulk can now somehow fight skyfather Thor, in a fight where even non-skyfather Thor was stated to have held back in their previous fights, even though the Hulk has been shown to be vastly inferior to skyfathers in the past, or even repeatedly effortlessly beaten by the Silver Surfer for that matter.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yes, but Hulk can now somehow fight skyfather Thor, in a fight where even non-skyfather Thor was stated to have held back in their previous fights, even though the Hulk has been shown to be vastly inferior to skyfathers in the past, or even repeatedly effortlessly beaten by the Silver Surfer for that matter.

Hulk has a canonical Varies mechanism Ant. He can just have it go up to 2-A instead of 2-C lol

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Yes, but Hulk can now somehow fight skyfather Thor, in a fight where even non-skyfather Thor was stated to have held back in their previous fights, even though the Hulk has been shown to be vastly inferior to skyfathers in the past, or even repeatedly effortlessly beaten by the Silver Surfer for that matter.

This would only be a valid argument if we assume Hulk has canonically a fixed strength level.

Also, Thor having held back in all their previous fights is contradicted. There have been times when Thor openly states he's going all out, is mind controlled, or bloodlusted.

 

[Da3ggman]

Thor and Hulk being roughly comparable in physicals has been the established shit for literal decades at this point. Scaling to him seems logical, especially with Savage Hulk.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Wasn't Hulk depressed, sad, and trying to die to get his family fixed against Zeus? Which is why he also let the other gods blast on him without fighting back.

Like, they kind of repeatedly state so.

He literally starts off breaking down crying and begging Hercules (who he thought was still the skyfather) to fix his family. He states he's "so tired"

"If you Irk him, he will kill you!" (Hulk proceeds to spend the rest of the issue climbing Olympus and trying to get Zeus mad). Hercules even seemingly understands this is Hulk's plan as he says "Godspeed, old friend.... and farewell"

When the other Hulks try to help, he tells them to go away before they "ruin everything"

When Hera says the fight's over, he says it doesn't matter, as long as they fix the Hulks

And Zeus and Hera both state this whole thing was him offering himself as a sacrifice and dying for his family.

In the fight itself, the only punch he lands is one specifically meant to anger Zeus, then went right back to mocking him to anger him.

I understand this being an anti-feat, but the context makes it iffy to me, since it's established Hulk's not trying to win this fight, he's trying to die so Zeus feels like he HAS to fix the other Hulks.

Incredible Hulks 621 and 622

 

[Firestorm808]

For any comic revisions, please provide the sources of your scans.

 

[Excellence616]

What would you suggest that I should change?

I suggest you should remove the Video and Comic Vine thread. Many people won't bother reading or watch them

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I think at this point it would be best to create a Post-Immortal Hulk profile, since Hulk's power dramatically increased during this run.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I think at this point it would be best to create a Post-Immortal Hulk profile, since Hulk's power dramatically increased during this run.

Just make another key

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

The problem is that the Hulk has nowhere near the scale of feats that Thor does, so their fights largely seem to be cases of "everybody can fight everybody" plot-induced stupidity, much like the fights between the Hulk and Wolverine, especially as even the World War Hulk incarnation was effortlessly beaten by Zeus, and Hulk was later somebody still able to fight skyfather/Odinforce Thor almost evenly.

I don’t see why that’s a problem when scaling is a thing, not really they straight up needed to jump him in a lot of this fights cuz Thor wasn’t cutting it, he even almost choked out pym if tony didn’t step in.not really when you factor in banner keeping hulk in check for those fights. WWH man goal was to save his family via sacrificing himself

Spoiler

plus Zeus’s punk ass needed to immediately cheat to catch the w agianst him

Spoiler

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Thor and Hulk being roughly comparable in physicals has been the established shit for literal decades at this point. Scaling to him seems logical, especially with Savage Hulk.

And hulk surpassing him in strength has also been established for a decade. My point is savage hulk strength dosen’t end at thor

 

[Eseseso]

Neutral. I believe Hulk has 2-A potential (and like Mav said, Hulk and Thor are consistent rivals), but the OP needs to state why better.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I suggest you should remove the Video and Comic Vine thread. Many people won't bother reading or watch them

People already know the vid cuz it’s already been used as justification for hulk’s rating the vine thread is just further supporting stuff

Neutral. I believe Hulk has 2-A potential (and like Mav said, Hulk and Thor are consistent rivals), but the OP needs to state why better.

Hmm, should I add more emphasis on his growing strength?

 

[Eseseso]

Hmm, should I add more emphasis on his growing strength?

Maybe add more emphasis on his scaling connections to 2-A feats and/or people.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Maybe add more emphasis on his scaling connections to 2-A feats and/or people.

I already did via scaling to joe

 

[Excellence616]

I already did via scaling to joe

Any other characters apart from Joe and Thor?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Any other characters apart from Joe and Thor?

There is hulk tanking a blast from Tony’s celestial armor

 

[Excellence616]

There is hulk tanking a blast from Tony’s celestial armor

You can add that to the OP. Didn't that happened in Hulk Vol 5?

 

[Excellence616]

I agree with the upgrade. Hulk don't have a fixed level of strength as it has been stated multiple times he has limitless power (This statements have been made by Beings More powerful than Hulk e.g the Beyonder, beings weaker than Hulk) which makes his power level to vary. In a Question and Answer with Greg Pak , he said that Hulk is stronger than all mortals and most immortals that ever worked on earth. As @AerrowStorm1 already said that Hulk Vs Zeus was a one sided Victory because hulk didn't fight back and that event happened in Incredible Hulks #621 and 622. Even Apocalypse said, "Hulk energy might give him power above the Celestials themselves | The Incredible Hulk 1968 Issue 456 (that statements maybe a bit of an exaggeration but the Celestials he maybe talking about might be the normal Celestials) and empowered a force field that temporarily halted the Celestial known as Exitar, the forcefield failed not as a result of Hulk but because of a fracture in it. | Uncanny Avengers Vol 1 #17. This feat can act as both lifting strength (Immeasurable LS) and AP but that is derailing

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Just make another key

The problem with making another key is that it doesn't account for the individual personalities having varying powerlevels that differ from the prior keys.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

The problem with making another key is that it doesn't account for the individual personalities having varying powerlevels that differ from the prior keys.

I’m pretty sure all the keys have “varies” at the end of them

 

[Excellence616]

Bump

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I agree with the upgrade, Hulk always had a varying level of strength due to rage and I feel like hulk needs a few more justifications other than, scales to Thor since he himself has tier 2 feats.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Bump

 

[Excellence616]

Bump

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Bump

 

[Excellence616]

Bump