Void Shiki Vs Smt Dante

[HammerStrikes219]

The fact that he's able to affect Archer at all debunks invul, no matter how slight the damage

I myself did question the invulnerability part myself admittedl and there was the attempt to remove the 4D aspect of the invul.


However, people have questioned this in the removal here.

Servants Invulnerability downgrade

Yeah he punches him, does nothing, and is instantly stabbed for it and dies

vsbattles.com

Still there is also this part from Fate/Apoc as well. They never specified the chapter though.


“The one who spoke with such a serene voice and held the man down was a child. In his moment of solace, the man gathered all the strength he possessed and grabbed her small arm, as though to throw her off.

But the arm of the child did not budge an inch. He grasped at her arm tightly, giving it everything he had. And yet, like a steel beam, her arm did not yield.

The man threw a punch. The soft sensation he felt when his fist made contact told him that her arm was not a prosthetic. But then, why? How is it possible that a punch with all the strength he could muster did not move her thin arm a single millimeter?

From his mouth came a pathetic shriek. He took a knife out of his pocket and thrust it at the girl's arm. Without a care for the unsightliness of his act, he stabbed at her again and again, trying only to escape from this aberrant scene.

He stabbed, and stabbed, and stabbed. So, why... why, why can't I hurt her?!

"Oh, my... doesn't it hurt?"

The child turned at the woman's question. Not noticing this, the man continued stabbing with his knife.

"We're all right. We're a Servant, after all. It doesn't hurt at all. It bugs us, though."




From Dareaper back in 2021.

“Invulnerability isn't "literally cannot feel anything" unless we're talking about God of War Baldur. That just ain't the case chief.”

Seen by Kuzuki only being able to stagger Archer without reinforcement.

Can I get some scans and a quote for this as context and evidence is absolutely needed as Medea was buffing Kuzuki and I don’t think we ever was aware of whatever or not Medea’s magic/magecraft expired after her death.

Although it may have, but would prefer further context here

 

[KleymStart]

Her wording when calling herself the Spiral actually uses a low certainty denotation (kamoshirenai). She does not “know” she is the Spiral; she guessed.

In Japanese, 〜かもしれない (kamoshirenai) is used to express uncertainty, similar to “may” or “might” in English. It implies that something could be true, but there is no concrete proof to back it up. For example, if you think you might have a cold, you would say: 風邪かもしれない (kaze kamoshirenai).

This suggests that the notion of her being the root, and thus being able to do anything, is highly uncertain and lacks concrete proof. This uncertainty extends to any other statement she (Void) makes in “Kara no Kyōkai”.



ill paste an excerpt I had with a certain user offsite:

”as a follow up to this, kamoshirenai is actually the lowest probability marker for these types of terms in japanese. (from highest to lowest uncertainty): かもしれない (kamoshirenai) / かもしれません (kamoshiremasen) / かも (kamo) (keep in mind that it has the particle for “not to know, but thats not exactly 100% true?) たぶん (tabun) (maybe,probably) おそらく (osoraku) (most likely,probably) きっと (kitto) (surely,definitely)”





Saber Shiki FGO Profile.

“Since her existence is inherently uncertain, even though she knows the full story behind many bizarre incidents, she does not get involved with them.”

It’s clear that Void lacks clarity about her own existence, and what abilities she does or doesn’t possess. Thus, her statements should take lesser priority when referring to her own power, and established lore and such should be prioritized instead.



Look at the very next sentence after the famous statement.



—But I can see much further than that. No, rather - I may well be that "swirl" myself.

けど、わたしはもっと深いところまで潜っていける。いえ───わたし自身が、その渦なのかもしれないわ

She was looking him right in the eye, but her tone of voice was insecure, uncertain. As if to let slip, between moments, an utterly incommunicable loneliness.

彼女は彼を見据えたまま不安定な声で続ける。



誰にも分からない、淋しい感情を吐露するように。


Arcueid: Ergh, so what about you Ryougi? Do you like the world of Fate?
Shiki: Not in particular, Mikiya isn't there. Sure my wishes will be granted but don't wishes get granted normally?
Arcueid: Uh, um, how direct.
Saber: Well, that would be because you're God to be blunt. You wouldn't know the pain of those without.
Shiki: Don't make such a stupid analogy. I'm cute compared to that. The stupid woman over there doesn't have any limits. She can make a castle just by her imagination you know?
Arcueid: I've got a lot of restrictions too though. Oh, so it looks that way to you two, well, the most practical one is Saber though.

Ryougi calls Void’s abilities "cute" compared to an actual god, and expressed amazement over marble phantasm, saying Arcueid has no limits. It implies 30% arcs
power to be superior. Furthermore, Arc reassures Ryougi she has restrictions, but from Ryougi and Artoria's perspectives, it might seem she doesn’t, asserting her superiority over both characters. Given a weaker character may view a markedly stronger one as almost without limits.

From Asagami Fujino's profile:
“単純な数値比べなら、物語中最高の性能。”"Simply in terms of a numerical comparison , her capabilities are the highest in the story.”
this puts her capabilities higher than any character who has appeared in KNK,which includes void shiki.

Fujino is literally just an average girl physically with a ranged dura neg ability.

also:

Spoiler: FGO

本物のガイアの怪物が相手なら仕方がないけれど、 相手はアラヤの怪物の劣化品。

If the opponent were a genuine Monster of Gaia, nothing could be done, but the opponent is merely an inferior imitation of a Monster of Alaya.

両儀式
相手が死に狂った末の幽霊なら、 こっちも死にもの狂いで戦えばいいだけの話ですもの。

Ryougi Shiki
If the opponent is a ghost maddened by death, then I just need to fight as if my life depends on it.

マシュ
式さん？　え、え！？

Mash
Shiki-san? Eh, eh!?

両儀式
はじめまして、マシュさん。 こんばんは、藤丸さん。

Ryougi Shiki
Nice to meet you, Mash-san. Good evening, Fujimaru-san.

両儀式
極力出てこないつもりだったけど、 相手が相手だから出てきちゃった。

Ryougi Shiki
I intended not to come out as much as possible, but since the opponent is what it is, I ended up coming out.

両儀式
少しの間だけど、私でよければ使ってあげて。

Ryougi Shiki
It's only for a short while, but if you don't mind, use me.

ill just rephrase the stuff of interest here.
Void says:
1. If a Monster of Gaia (primate murder) was there, there would be nothing she could do.
2. She says she needs to “fight as if her life depended on it” in order to beat a degraded beast of alaya (Shadow Servant Edmond Dantes, btw)
3.she felt as if the opponent was so strong, she had no choice but to take control.

In the KNK manga, we get additional context proving that a personality switch to Void happened when she used self suggestion. First, I’ll send the scans from the original novel and additional side material.

A more literal translation of the sentence:


It’s stated many times during the epilogue that Void, unlike the other 2 personalities, technically is not Shiki at all.

“Shiki” is also regarded as a vessel/container (器),regarding voids nature as the “vessel” or “empty container/box”
Void also exhibits feminine behavior, while Ryougi is noted to act masculine after the death of SHIKI. This is one of Nasu's "tells" ofThis fact is further proven in the manga, as she gets additional lines, and the way she speaks is feminine, and not like her normal masculine speech at all, which is an integral part of Ryougis character. Araya even says “So we finally meet”,which wouldn’t make sense if this was the same personality as before.



this is one chapter of the fight, though you can seeher behavior and mannerisms rapidly switch.
ill try to find the other chapters, but you can probably get the general idea


One of Voids skills (Skills are given based on what fits the characters actions and lore, and even has short lore info at times based on the character), literally references this scene here:
Cloud Shine: B
After switching one's attitude to that of a swordsman, the user performs ultra-high speed movements and slashes. Five intervals... nine meters of space are instantly covered, as if a flash of light.

This means that Void did indeed show up here.

See this as well:
そのあたりのこだわりがなく、問答無用で剣士としてのスペックを出すようなフラットな人格になれば、まあ、200年近く生きてる武闘派の怪僧をびびらせるぐらいには。
If she didn't have such specific preferences and had a flat personality that showcased her specs as a swordsman without issues, well, she could intimidate the martial monk who has lived for nearly 200 years.

Dictionary definition for a “flat personality”:
lacking interest or emotion; dull and lifeless.

Yea, this fits Void to a tee, as she is noted to be extremely dull and lifeless in the epilogue.
How is this relevant you may ask? Well, besides amping her physicals heavily, the only new “ability” that she obtained was precognition. (Void’s nigh-omniscience made combat applicable, basically.) none of that supposed reality warping here. She also gets injured by arayas attacks, which are hyped to “shatter concrete” and “fell trees”
What does this mean? 2 things.
Void’s supposed “reality warping” is either not combat applicable/not at the scale where it would be super relevant for combat, or she doesn’t have such abilities at all.

Void's supposed "capabilities" in combat at least were already explored in the Araya fight by virtue of her appearing there and........ she just has higher physical stats with a side of omniscience based precog. Definitely not 1-A scale reality warping, for sure.

With you, we already have another one who seeks to Unbunk Void Shiki from being the Top of the verse, well, this has been done since like 2019

 

[Apotheosis69]

What tier do ya'll think Shin Megami Tensei "1-A" would be changed to, if it even does.