Servants Invulnerability downgrade

[Paul_Frank]

Yeah he punches him, does nothing, and is instantly stabbed for it and dies

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Bump so we can get this resolved.

 

[TristanSimp]

IIRC we've never actually seen Servants attacked with non-magical things. Ever.

I know this is kinda late, but we have a clear example of Jack the Ripper getting attacked by a normal guy? Hard to tell if it’s Invuln or just Durability

““The one who spoke with such a serene voice and held the man down was a child. In his moment of solace, the man gathered all the strength he possessed and grabbed her small arm, as though to throw her off.

But the arm of the child did not budge an inch. He grasped at her arm tightly, giving it everything he had. And yet, like a steel beam, her arm did not yield.

The man threw a punch. The soft sensation he felt when his fist made contact told him that her arm was not a prosthetic. But then, why? How is it possible that a punch with all the strength he could muster did not move her thin arm a single millimeter?

From his mouth came a pathetic shriek. He took a knife out of his pocket and thrust it at the girl's arm. Without a care for the unsightliness of his act, he stabbed at her again and again, trying only to escape from this aberrant scene.

He stabbed, and stabbed, and stabbed. So, why... why, why can't I hurt her?!

"Oh, my... doesn't it hurt?"

The child turned at the woman's question. Not noticing this, the man continued stabbing with his knife.

"We're all right. We're a Servant, after all. It doesn't hurt at all. It bugs us, though."”

 

[LehenDuo]

I know this is kinda late, but we have a clear example of Jack the Ripper getting attacked by a normal guy? Hard to tell if it’s Invuln or just Durability

““The one who spoke with such a serene voice and held the man down was a child. In his moment of solace, the man gathered all the strength he possessed and grabbed her small arm, as though to throw her off.

But the arm of the child did not budge an inch. He grasped at her arm tightly, giving it everything he had. And yet, like a steel beam, her arm did not yield.

The man threw a punch. The soft sensation he felt when his fist made contact told him that her arm was not a prosthetic. But then, why? How is it possible that a punch with all the strength he could muster did not move her thin arm a single millimeter?

From his mouth came a pathetic shriek. He took a knife out of his pocket and thrust it at the girl's arm. Without a care for the unsightliness of his act, he stabbed at her again and again, trying only to escape from this aberrant scene.

He stabbed, and stabbed, and stabbed. So, why... why, why can't I hurt her?!

"Oh, my... doesn't it hurt?"

The child turned at the woman's question. Not noticing this, the man continued stabbing with his knife.

"We're all right. We're a Servant, after all. It doesn't hurt at all. It bugs us, though."”

Tangent, but there's a scene of Arash jumping between buildings and a description of how ''physical energies'' impact his Ether body.

 

[Smashtwig]

Tangent, but there's a scene of Arash jumping between buildings and a description of how ''physical energies'' impact his Ether body.

Well, what was the description?

 

[LehenDuo]

Well, what was the description?

''After his last leap, he landed without a sound on top of the roof of a 8 stories multi-tenant building. The impact of his drop, broke apart through his whole body from the soles of his feet. He noticed that the physical energy that hand't intervened with all of his mana had a light effect to his own body as a Servant, but if he hadn't killed the impact, he would've completely destroyed the building that was owned by the inoocent people at once.''

The translation isn't exactly top-tier, but I can't find the better one I remember.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

So is Servant Invul getting the boot or...

Seems the Jack the Ripper example is blatant, so normal humans can harm Servants maybe.

 

[Smashtwig]

"We're all right. We're a Servant, after all. It doesn't hurt at all. It bugs us, though."”

Yeah, if they are “bugged” then it affected them in some way

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah, if they are “bugged” then it affected them in some way

I think it's closer to the fact that the man was literally trying to tug, punch, and stab at Jack, I'd be bugged if someone was trying to do that to me even if they couldn't hurt me as well.

 

[Smashtwig]

Yes but it still proves that you are like… affected in some way is what I’m saying

 

[DaReaperMan]

Invulnerability isn't "literally cannot feel anything" unless we're talking about God of War Baldur. That just ain't the case chief.

 

[Smashtwig]

E

 

[LehenDuo]

Yes but it still proves that you are like… affected in some way is what I’m saying

Being affected =/= capable of generating damage
Being tickled is very bothersome, but I don't believe will in any way hurt anyone

 

[DaReaperMan]

E

E

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Similar to this part in strange/Fake:

Sigma leapt outside as he hurled the M84 stun grenade at Assassin, noisily smashing through a window in the process. The bang and flash began immediately after, but by that time he had already started to fall. The room that Sigma and Assassin had been in was on the second floor, but Sigma skillfully righted himself in midair and landed lightly as a cat. I can’t hope to damage a Heroic Spirit’s eyes or eardrums with a physical stun grenade, but it should distract her for a moment.

Being annoyed by distraction is not the same as being damaged or in pain.

 

[TristanSimp]

I finally have something concrete to add that completely busts this open completely, from Dengeki Hime, a hypothetical battle between Kuzuki and Caster;

“
Nasu-san CHECK!
Welcome to the beginning of the unorthodox rumble series! The end of the ugly battle of the married couple.....yeah well, just as the adage goes about the loser being the one who falls for the other first, it'd end with Caster being the cause of her own defeat no matter what! You can do it, wakaokusama! ....would be the punchline I started off with, but if both were really serious it wouldn't even be a "fight". Kuzuki, who'd kill the opponent instantly before being noticed, and Caster, who has overwhelming firepower to annihilate the enemy with once the battle starts. Basically, whoever gets the first hit wins without question, would be the "conditional battle".”

—- which is concluded as “Kuzuki would win if he got the first hit in.”

Notice something about this. Kuzuki is non-magical, he has zero magic, he is indeed a human. When he hits Archer in fate it tilts his head to the side but does minimal damage, however we now know his non-magical fist could indeed kill a servant.

 

[LehenDuo]

Nasu-san CHECK!
Welcome to the beginning of the unorthodox rumble series! The end of the ugly battle of the married couple.....yeah well, just as the adage goes about the loser being the one who falls for the other first, it'd end with Caster being the cause of her own defeat no matter what! You can do it, wakaokusama! ....would be the punchline I started off with, but if both were really serious it wouldn't even be a "fight". Kuzuki, who'd kill the opponent instantly before being noticed, and Caster, who has overwhelming firepower to annihilate the enemy with once the battle starts. Basically, whoever gets the first hit wins without question, would be the "conditional battle".”

This really makes it seem as if it's Kuzuki powered, not Kuzuki normal.
How would she be the cause of her OWN defeat if she fought Kuzuki straight up and got hit first?

 

[azontr]

I finally have something concrete to add that completely busts this open completely, from Dengeki Hime, a hypothetical battle between Kuzuki and Caster;

“
Nasu-san CHECK!
Welcome to the beginning of the unorthodox rumble series! The end of the ugly battle of the married couple.....yeah well, just as the adage goes about the loser being the one who falls for the other first, it'd end with Caster being the cause of her own defeat no matter what! You can do it, wakaokusama! ....would be the punchline I started off with, but if both were really serious it wouldn't even be a "fight". Kuzuki, who'd kill the opponent instantly before being noticed, and Caster, who has overwhelming firepower to annihilate the enemy with once the battle starts. Basically, whoever gets the first hit wins without question, would be the "conditional battle".”

—- which is concluded as “Kuzuki would win if he got the first hit in.”

Notice something about this. Kuzuki is non-magical, he has zero magic, he is indeed a human. When he hits Archer in fate it tilts his head to the side but does minimal damage, however we now know his non-magical fist could indeed kill a servant.

I'm like 999999% sure this is an amped Kuzuki.

 

[LehenDuo]

Notice something about this. Kuzuki is non-magical, he has zero magic, he is indeed a human. When he hits Archer in fate it tilts his head to the side but does minimal damage, however we now know his non-magical fist could indeed kill a servant.

No. Just no. Servants are SPIRITUAL BEINGs. There is the huge divide between some writers where (it seems) non-magical energy enhanced things can damage them somewhat, but it coul never destroy their Spiritual Core, and therefore, could never kill one.