[VL99] 1-A Invalid Cosmology.

[Lynieryz]

Thread 'Yumiella Sad Low 1-C downgrade + Cosmology Upgrade 1-A'

Jul 19, 2024

OP notes: Please Read it carefully as it may be confusing for none readers and I'm not proficient in English
or read the cosmology blog first, it's not that long

---

Intro:​

Cosmology is confirmed to have R>F transcendence For a Higher World. thus making them low 1-C for having an ontological difference

Multiverse level, possibly Low Complex Multiverse level with Keep Living (Keep Living is a sacred instrument that is used to manage the world, It’s a sword that can cut away unnecessary worlds, like pruning excess branches from the...

• Shiraito983
• villainess level 99 yumiella dolkness
• Replies: 32
• Forum: Content Revision

• 

It's quite simple, the cosmology was accepted as a 1-A but this goes against the accepted standard.

Relationship to Reality Equalization

Reality Equalization as a concept equalizes the 'baseline reality' to be the reality that is most prominent within the story, being treated as a normal 3-D reality. For verses that mostly take place in an in-universe video game or story, this would logically allow the characters who exist beyond that world to be Tier 2 or above, even if they are mostly normal humans otherwise.

However, this is not the case for every setting. In certain situations, we would not grant a R>F Transcendence to those who exist in the 'real world' compared to the game. Whether we do or not, it has to do with the perspective of the story.

For the R>F transcendence to be indexed, the portrayal of the transcendence must be taken into account. If the transcendence is treated as sufficiently portrayed and is important to the story (i.e. being the literal author of the world with complete control over it), then it's valid. If it is not sufficiently portrayed as transcendence compared to the fictional world, then we would not index it as such and would simply tier it as if no R>F transcendence was involved.

Reality-Fiction Transcendence

It is not uncommon in fiction for characters to view lesser realities as if they were fiction, in much the same way as a real world human would view fiction. Frequently that comes in the form of almighty author characters which can freely rewrite those lesser realities. The other way around...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The multiverse consists of cyberspace worlds that exist within a game.

“Could it be that I only think that the worlds I govern are part of their own tree? What if they’re actually a clump of branches on a much bigger tree? I can’t deny the possibility that this world might be something like a dollhouse created by a being from a much larger world. Picture it! Those beings could be watching us from above, enjoying us as entertainment!”
“Oh...!” I was going to say that sounds stupid, but I almost forgot. This world is the world of an otome game. There are definitely people who are enjoying this world as entertainment. I was one of those very people. “What’s wrong?” the god of evil asked, curious about the sound I’d made. “Oh, it’s nothing. Please continue.” “Well, from the perspective of those in that larger world, I’m nothing but a trivial being frolicking around in their tiny dollhouse. I’m just a clown to them!” Man, if I tell him that this is the world of an otome game, he might just explode from anger. Also, from the way he’s talking, it sounds like the world I’m originally from might be in danger. After gathering enough powerful pawns, the god of evil will probably end up invading Japan. After being attacked by an otome game, Japan will... Wait. Maybe it’s not actually that dangerous of a situation? Upon thinking about it, it just didn’t sound that dire. If you said a god from cyberspace was going to attack, that sounded more urgent. If you instead said it was a god from an otome game, it instantly sounded immensely unthreatening. Well, god of evil, you’re acting pretty high and mighty, but I hate to break it to you: this is just the world of a dating simulation, buddy. Either way, while this might’ve been the world of a fictional story, the people here were definitely alive, and they made their own choices. That seemed like enough of a qualification for somewhere to be considered a proper world. On top of that, there was no guarantee that Japan was the “original” world either. My first life could’ve been set in the world of a manga where sorcerers were secretly battling spirits behind the scenes in modern Japan, and my previous self was simply unaware of all that. And then, the world full of even higher beings reading that manga might not be the original either... And so, it was an endless cycle. I pointed this out. “Even if you were to take over the hypothetical world watching over this world, that world might be fictional, just another, bigger dollhouse.” “Then I’ll just take over the world above that one.” “There might be another world above even that one.” “Even if they go on forever, I’ll just continue climbing up.” His ambition knew no bounds. Even if he were to endlessly continue invading successive worlds, how would he ever know for certain that he’d reached the root of the tree?
I can’t keep dealing with this. I wonder: can he even observe Japan, or even any part of the world where the Japan in which I lived was located?

This is shown more explicitly through Reality Warping which works by manipulating the game code.

he said, “Activate Administrator Code: Shut off targets in current space.” I was about to ask him what he was doing, but I realized my mouth couldn’t move. It wasn’t just my mouth, but also my arms and legs—heck, not even my eyeballs could move an inch. Patrick and 2 were just barely visible in the corner of my peripheral vision, and it didn’t seem like they were moving either. They were likely frozen as well. My only lifeline was Lemn, who was hopefully still watching everything from the shadows.“You can’t move, can you?” the god of evil cackled. “This is the power of a being who is truly a god. The four of you are... Wait, four...? Oh, I see, he must be in the shadows. Lemn, was it? You’re no different from humans in my eyes.”

“Activate Administrator Code: Shut off target.” The breath disappeared, and the god reappeared as his usual calm, wobbling, censored self. It didn’t seem like Ryuu’s attack had done anything. Not only that, but since he didn’t utter a single roar or issue another attack, I assumed that Ryuu couldn’t move anymore either, frozen midwingbeat in the sky above.

“Activate Administrator Code: Shut off targets in current area.” The cheat code rang out in its entirety at last.We were frozen—not even a single joint in a single one of my fingers would budge. Patrick and I were completely still, and the same was likely true for Lemn and Sanon, although they were too far out of my field of vision for me to say for sure. Everyone in the god of evil’s presence had been stopped.

No one reduced her soul to a less real reality; this was never stated in the work. It is stated that her soul wandered on its own until Lemn found it and took control. Lemn mentioned that the soul is weak, and the fact that he is able to manipulate it supports this. He then placed it in the body of the original Yumiella, who was about to die.

So, I thought I’d give it a try, and put another soul inside you. It's a weak soul, drifting in the rift between dimensions. It’s likely to fail, but I was troubled enough to try it out.

「そこで物は試しと思ってだな、貴様の中に別な魂を入れてみた。次元の狭間を漂う弱々しい魂だ。まず駄目であろうが、それを試すほどには悩んでいたのだ」

 

[Bernkastelll]

Thread 'Yumiella Sad Low 1-C downgrade + Cosmology Upgrade 1-A'

Jul 19, 2024

OP notes: Please Read it carefully as it may be confusing for none readers and I'm not proficient in English
or read the cosmology blog first, it's not that long

---

Intro:​

Cosmology is confirmed to have R>F transcendence For a Higher World. thus making them low 1-C for having an ontological difference

Multiverse level, possibly Low Complex Multiverse level with Keep Living (Keep Living is a sacred instrument that is used to manage the world, It’s a sword that can cut away unnecessary worlds, like pruning excess branches from the...

• Shiraito983
• villainess level 99 yumiella dolkness
• Replies: 32
• Forum: Content Revision

• 

It's quite simple, the cosmology was accepted as a 1-A but this goes against the accepted standard.

Reality-Fiction Transcendence

It is not uncommon in fiction for characters to view lesser realities as if they were fiction, in much the same way as a real world human would view fiction. Frequently that comes in the form of almighty author characters which can freely rewrite those lesser realities. The other way around...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The multiverse consists of cyberspace worlds that exist within a game.

This is shown more explicitly through Reality Warping which works by manipulating the game code.

Nothing of this contradicts the current ratings, you just proved that the multiverse is fictional in relation to the Higher World, which is exactly the point of the 1-A upgrade.

As per our standards:

Qualifiers​

Potential mediums for viewing a cosmology as fiction include: written media (Books or stories), images (Paintings, comics, or movies), data (Simulations or video games), or mental constructs (thoughts or dreams). All of the above would be considered less 'real' than the person who views the cosmology as such, and can directly imply qualitative superiority. Note that the medium is usually a representation or container for the fiction on a higher plane and not necessarily the fiction in itself.

The Real World see the entire multiverse of Villainess 99 as fiction because to them, it's literally just a game, a lower reality, there's a qualitative difference between a game and the World

 

[SweetDao]

The only point I can understand would be equalizing (to some extent) the "real world" and the Otome world, but beside this, I don't think there is much to discuss.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

@Bernkastelll pretty much summarized my thoughts on this too; I disagree.

 

[Voidnether]

As someone who doesn't follow the verse at all (Last I saw, it was about Yumiella being able to summon blackhole iirc). I still think this being accepted so straightforward is the main flaw with R>F in its entirety, for someone who doesn't know this verse that much. What stops them from thinking that it's just an analogy to indicate a higher dimension? And that's literally what's happening here, I mean this is basically the same like The Eminence in Shadow in a way.. So yeah, I got to agree with this unless someone refutes all the points I've made.

 

[Bernkastelll]

. What stops them from thinking that it's just an analogy to indicate a higher dimension?

Because it's not an analogy, the multiverse of Otome is literally a game

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

it's just an analogy to indicate a higher dimension

Because the lower stories are literally directly called fiction. Quoting myself from the previous thread were it was accepted:

The term used for lower worlds is not just otome games, they are directly called fictional, many times and even exemplified with the analogy of Mangas. Its even shown that even the caretaker of the lower world where yumi is in himself cannot even as much as observe/perceive the higher worlds.

Also, if you are referring to author intent here by indicate, I am pretty sure the original RF standard revision thread already took care of that.

 

[Bernkastelll]

What stops them from thinking that it's just an analogy to indicate a higher dimension? And that's literally what's happening here

I'll send a manga scan because its easier to understand, it can't be an analogy because we literally see Yumiella playing and talking about when she used to play the game, and the game is the multiverse of Otome.

 

[SweetDao]

I'll send a manga scan because its easier to understand, it can't be an analogy because we literally see Yumiella playing and talking about when she used to play the game, and the game is the multiverse of Otome.

Tbf that's standard practice for Isekai stuff so that image alone doesn't help not discredit the cosmology itself

 

[Voidnether]

Because it's not an analogy, the multiverse of Otome is literally a game

No, in the earlier thread Digital_Franz has explained about this. The analogy here is basically the same as TEIS, I couldn't see why it would be so different.

From what I've read, it's 99% the same as TEIS, just so you get a TLDR;
Cid gets reincarnated after he dies in Japan (like Yumiella), and then Cid basically starts saying how his world is fiction, et cetera (Literally the main plot) just for the same entity (Shadow Garden) literally being able to exist on Japan after Season 2 Episode 12.

Thread 'Shadow: Low Complex Multiversal Upgrade'

Mar 10, 2023

Shadow claims that the entire universe is a dream and that he is the only real thing.
Shadow must be 5-D to see the universe as fiction.

• FanSyst
• cid kagenou the eminence in shadow
• Replies: 24
• Forum: Fun and Games

Because the lower stories are literally directly called fiction. Quoting myself from the previous thread were it was accepted:

Also, if you are referring to author intent here by indicate, I am pretty sure the original RF standard revision thread already took care of that.

I still don't see it tbh (the links are broken, but okay). From the explanations, it's pretty much still an analogy to me. Is there like a clear feat that shows this is not just for like the story (Like, the plot doesn't revolve around this, etc)? Like I said earlier, I don't follow the verse itself but I gotta say with all the feats brought up.. It's too similar to TEIS.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

No, in the earlier thread Digital_Franz has explained about this. The analogy here is basically the same as TEIS, I couldn't see why it would be so different.

From what I've read, it's 99% the same as TEIS, just so you get a TLDR;
Cid gets reincarnated after he dies in Japan (like Yumiella), and then Cid basically starts saying how his world is fiction, et cetera (Literally the main plot) just for the same entity (Shadow Garden) literally being able to exist on Japan after Season 2 Episode 12.

Thread 'Shadow: Low Complex Multiversal Upgrade'

Mar 10, 2023

Shadow claims that the entire universe is a dream and that he is the only real thing.
Shadow must be 5-D to see the universe as fiction.

• FanSyst
• cid kagenou the eminence in shadow
• Replies: 24
• Forum: Fun and Games

TEIS analogy just seems like Shadow using flowery language as he always does, part of his personality as an edgy character. Yumilia;s case is more or less literally her being reincarnated in a world that she previously played as a game. That is far more literal than what Cid said in the thread you linked.

I still don't see it tbh (the links are broken, but okay). From the explanations, it's pretty much still an analogy to me. Is there like a clear feat that shows this is not just for like the story (Like, the plot doesn't revolve around this, etc)? Like I said earlier, I don't follow the verse itself but I gotta say with all the feats brought up.. It's too similar to TEIS.

I suppose quoting the scan here would be better:

“Could it be that I only think that the worlds I govern are part of their own tree? What if they’re actually a clump of branches on a much bigger tree? I can’t deny the possibility that this world might be something like a dollhouse created by a being from a much larger world. Picture it! Those beings could be watching us from above, enjoying us as entertainment!”
“Oh...!” I was going to say that sounds stupid, but I almost forgot. This world is the world of an otome game. There are definitely people who are enjoying this world as entertainment. I was one of those very people. “What’s wrong?” the god of evil asked, curious about the sound I’d made. “Oh, it’s nothing. Please continue.” “Well, from the perspective of those in that larger world, I’m nothing but a trivial being frolicking around in their tiny dollhouse. I’m just a clown to them!” Man, if I tell him that this is the world of an otome game, he might just explode from anger. Also, from the way he’s talking, it sounds like the world I’m originally from might be in danger. After gathering enough powerful pawns, the god of evil will probably end up invading Japan. After being attacked by an otome game, Japan will... Wait. Maybe it’s not actually that dangerous of a situation? Upon thinking about it, it just didn’t sound that dire. If you said a god from cyberspace was going to attack, that sounded more urgent. If you instead said it was a god from an otome game, it instantly sounded immensely unthreatening. Well, god of evil, you’re acting pretty high and mighty, but I hate to break it to you: this is just the world of a dating simulation, buddy. Either way, while this might’ve been the world of a fictional story, the people here were definitely alive, and they made their own choices. That seemed like enough of a qualification for somewhere to be considered a proper world. On top of that, there was no guarantee that Japan was the “original” world either. My first life could’ve been set in the world of a manga where sorcerers were secretly battling spirits behind the scenes in modern Japan, and my previous self was simply unaware of all that. And then, the world full of even higher beings reading that manga might not be the original either... And so, it was an endless cycle. I pointed this out. “Even if you were to take over the hypothetical world watching over this world, that world might be fictional, just another, bigger dollhouse.” “Then I’ll just take over the world above that one.” “There might be another world above even that one.” “Even if they go on forever, I’ll just continue climbing up.” His ambition knew no bounds. Even if he were to endlessly continue invading successive worlds, how would he ever know for certain that he’d reached the root of the tree?
I can’t keep dealing with this. I wonder: can he even observe Japan, or even any part of the world where the Japan in which I lived was located?

 

[Voidnether]

TEIS analogy just seems like Shadow using flowery language as he always does, part of his personality as an edgy character. Yumilia;s case is more or less literally her being reincarnated in a world that she previously played as a game. That is far more literal than what Cid said in the thread you linked.

Because that's the entire plot, lol

I suppose quoting the scan here would be better:

One thing vague with this is that it doesn't imply Japan as an unreachable realm, but as long as the characters on there isn't able to affect Japan then it's probably fine for 1-A — Though, a key for this is redundant tbh

 

[Bernkastelll]

Though, a key for this is redundant tbh

I don't think a 1-A key is redundant though..............

 

[Voidnether]

I don't think a 1-A key is redundant though..............

It's non-combat applicable, you could see an example with Kamen Rider and why it's required. But this? Yumiella is just an average girl in Japan, that's literally her entire backstory and since Japan is basically unreachable (unlike TEIS). I still don't see why it's needed..

If there's a 1-A key, it wouldn't even be funny if there's a match with another character that's on the same level.. What is Yumiella even gonna do there?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

One thing vague with this is that it doesn't imply Japan as an unreachable realm, but as long as the characters on there isn't able to affect Japan then it's probably fine for 1-A —

They cant, nor can they even perceive the higher reality. Even a caretaker that manages all the countless universes of a singIe tree cannot perceive a higher tree/reality.

Though, a key for this is redundant tbh

Well, there isn't really much of a problem with it if the supporters of said verse want it so and its something scalable. And lets be real, we all love seeing 1-A on their favorite profile.

 

[SweetDao]

It's non-combat applicable, you could see an example with Kamen Rider and why it's required. But this? Yumiella is just an average girl in Japan, that's literally her entire backstory and since Japan is basically unreachable (unlike TEIS). I still don't see why it's needed..

I think it's fine, there are some profiles on the wiki that are just a regular human on some of their keys yet they are still indexed.

 

[Voidnether]

They cant, nor can they even perceive the higher reality. Even a caretaker that manages all the countless universes of a singIe tree cannot perceive a higher tree/reality.

Yeah, that's fine I suppose.

Well, there isn't really much of a problem with it if the supporters of said verse want it so and its something scalable. And lets be real, we all love seeing 1-A on their favorite profile.

Average 1-A Human
Do what you guys want (At this point, I'll just see how the OP responds as it seems like they know about this fiction), but still considering how mismatch it's gonna be if there's a versus matchup between her and any 1-A character (that would be so funny lol) if it gets accepted

I don't have anything left to do here as it's already answered and I don't want to clog up the thread, so yeah..

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

but still considering how mismatch it's gonna be if there's a versus matchup between her and any 1-A character (that would be so funny lol) if it gets accepted

They may have dug up a grave of future raids of spite threads, but eh, that's something to do with the supporters, not the watchers like us

Anyways, I will stop with this yap too since I got nothing else to say unless the op returns

 

[Lynieryz]

No one reduced her soul to a less real reality; this was never stated in the work. It is stated that her soul wandered on its own until Lemn found it and took control. Lemn mentioned that the soul is weak, and the fact that he is able to manipulate it supports this. He then placed it in the body of the original Yumiella, who was about to die.

So, I thought I’d give it a try, and put another soul inside you. It's a weak soul, drifting in the rift between dimensions. It’s likely to fail, but I was troubled enough to try it out.

「そこで物は試しと思ってだな、貴様の中に別な魂を入れてみた。次元の狭間を漂う弱々しい魂だ。まず駄目であろうが、それを試すほどには悩んでいたのだ」

 

[Velvian_can]

Lemn mentioned that the soul is weak, and the fact that he is able to manipulate it supports this. He then placed it in the body of the original Yumiella, who was about to die.

Lemn wasn't the one talking in the dialogue, Kugelschreiber was the one explaining to Yumiella 2 that he merely reincarnated the already reduced soul of the Yumiella which was already at the verge of diminishment which proves that caretakers of trees are capable of manipulating the souls of habitants of that tree

She'd never used this power of hers during her childhood or while she was a student, fearing that she would only cause others to be even more terrified of her than they already were. Though she now understood that there was nothing to fear when the world had already cast her out so cruelly, at the time, she was truly terrified of doing anything that would inspire others to hurt her more.

And so, Yumiella began walking the path towards becoming the hidden boss. It was right after this turning point that she first met the figureless voice.

"Hey," Yumiella abruptly called out to the voice, who was still rambling on and spewing thoughts of resentment.

"...which is why beings that look down on this world definitely exist."

"Are you listening to me?!"

"They observe as if it's entertainment and are delighted... Hm? What is it?" "Never mind..."

He'd been like this since they'd first met. The mysterious, invisible being didn't care to have anything resembling a real conversation. He just wanted to listen to his own voice.

She didn't even know his name. Yumiella wasn't inconvenienced by this, since there was no one else left to talk to anyway, but internally, she referred to him as the god of evil.

Yumiella thought back to several months ago. The first words he'd said to her were, "You're going to die if you're not careful." He'd warned her that at her current strength, she wouldn't be able to stand up against Alicia and the other heroes, and that she would be killed if she tried.

He'd then suggested a completely ridiculous method of level grinding. It was an incredibly severe method of training, so much so that it seemed impossible that any sort of mortal being had come up with it.

"What's wrong?" the voice asked, shifting into a more conciliatory tone as it snapped Yumiella back to the present. Perhaps he'd noticed her distracted irritation. "We're going to the neighboring world tomorrow, remember?"

"I'll go," Yumiella sighed. "You really don't think about what it's like to be human, do you? I can see how you're the one who would've come up with such a crazy level grinding method."

"You've got that wrong. The method I shared with you wasn't something I

thought of."

"What? Who else would?"

"It was you who pioneered that method. A you from a parallel world. The same you that you'll be fighting tomorrow."

Yumiella's next opponent was a different version of herself from a parallel world. She had known this for a while, but she hadn't thought that she was that ridiculous of a person.

I always assumed she just lived a depressing life until now like I did, but...

Yumiella became curious about this person, although she hadn't expressed any interest in her until now.

"What's my other self like? Is she different from me?"

"She's completely different, and since that's coming from someone who can't tell the difference between humans, you know she must be pretty different. She's also much stronger than you are."

"What? Why don't you just have her kill me, then? You just want more henchmen who have unlocked their level caps, right?"

"Well... It's not that simple. The you over there doesn't have any weaknesses. She doesn't hate the world like you do. She's difficult to control."

Yumiella couldn't imagine a version of herself that didn't hate the world. Even if she had the chance to redo her life, she would probably still dislike this world.

"Why is there a version of me like that?"

"Oh, that's easy. I did it."

"Explain...?"

"I've had my eye on you for a long, long time. Your abilities are some of the most incredible out of all the humans I've ever observed. I've wanted you as a pawn very badly. But you always die. No matter how much I interfere, that never changes."

Yumiella recalled her battle with Alicia and the others. The battle to the death against those four had been won by a razor-thin margin. If she hadn't used that crazy leveling method, she would definitely have died.

They had just been that strong, and they'd had that many advantages against Yumiella.

She returned her attention to the voice.

"So I thought I might as well try something else,” he continued. "I put a different soul into a version of you. It was a weak soul that was skirting the border between dimensions. Doing that goes against every law of the
universe, but I was feeling so lost that I tried it anyway.”