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Vegeta Downgrade (Great Ape only)

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The_real_cal_howard

The_real_cal_howard

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Recently, this form got an upgrade due to having a PL higher than Ginyus. There's a good amount wrong with that. For starters, that would make Great Ape form Large Planet at the very minimum. Vegeta himself is baseline planet. Our rating implies that the form, at the very minimum, gives Vegeta a boost very darn close to a SUPER SAIYAN. Not to mention, Vegeta is terrified by the Ginyus in general. Not just the captain, but everyone (except Guldo). Contextually, it makes no sense for him to be stronger in that form than the strongest one there
 
I agree, the boost sounds far too absurd when compared to the stronger form for Saiyans.

That is, of course, assuming we use the SSJ multiplier here.
 
What was Vegeta's power level when he was on earth? Wasn't it 18,000? This would make GAV 180,000 i.e higher than Ginyu.
 
Wait we upgraded vegeta based on power levels and that power level puts him above ginyu when vegeta was scared of all the ginyu force and not just ginyu? Yea i think that boost was ridiculous, great ape vegeta should only be planet level.
 
I think you forget that at the time Vegeta had no tail meaning no transformation. And the Ginyu's most likely knew of the Oozaru weakness. Also Power Levels at this time were very useful for scaling. It think we can all agree GAV has a higher PL than the Ginyu Force. Like I said at the time Vegeta had no tail and thus couldn't transform and he was afraild of the Ginyu's.
 
Is GA a 10x power multiplier or a 10x power level multiplier? Likewise for SSJ?
 
At this point in the series your power was your power level. It wasn't til the Frieza fight where PL's were thrown out the window.
 
I am still finding it a bit ridiculous that sayain saga great ape vegeta is stronger than the ginyu force, i mean if he was that strong in ape form i don't see why he himself wasn't apart of the ginyu force or leading it since all he would need to do is create an artificial sun and transform and he could beat all of them.
 
Also GAV would destroy Goku in their fight too.

Goku wouldn't even be able to resist a shockwave, much less a blast.
 
Celestial Pegasus said:
I am still finding it a bit ridiculous that sayain saga great ape vegeta is stronger than the ginyu force, i mean if he was that strong in ape form i don't see why he himself wasn't apart of the ginyu force or leading it since all he would need to do is create an artificial sun and transform and he could beat all of them.
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We don't have any indication the Vegeta even wanted to be apart of the Ginyu Force. For all we know he wouldn't of cared. Plus he was moreso worried about Frieza than anything else.
 
I can agree with Ape Vegeta being weaker than Ginyu, but I doubt that for a big gasp, he should be stronger than the other members; the Vegeta's fears should have been cuz they still being faster and with higher stamina, without mentioning that most likely they knew about Vegeta weakness.
 
SomebodyData said:
Also GAV would destroy Goku in their fight too.
Goku wouldn't even be able to resist a shockwave, much less a blast.
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Wouldn't we chalk that up to PIS?
 
Why would the Ginyu Force ever let him throw out his artifical moon or ever let him in the force?

They all hate and look down at the saiyans. Also Vegeta can't be a Great Ape forever and the only reason Goku let Vegeta throw the artificial moon because he had no idea what Vegeta was doing.

(Sorry if I shouldn't write here or I'm being rude)
 
Okay this is ridiculous as I recall that Goku and Raditz got oneshotted by Piccolo with his special beam cannon while in the manga I recall it was over 8,000 rather than 9,000 when Vegeta use his scouter on Goku during the Saiyan Saga IIRC so yeah I have my doubts on this. I can not trust power level stuff when it comes to the later parts of DBZ.
 
Starkiller215 said:
Okay this is ridiculous as I recall that Goku and Raditz got oneshotted by Piccolo with his special beam cannon while in the manga I recall it was over 8,000 rather than 9,000 IIRC so yeah I have my doubts on this. I can not trust power level stuff when it comes to the later parts of DBZ.
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I'm confused as to what you're trying to say here. Goku and Raditz getting killed by the Special Beam Cannon is a result of the SBC vastly increasing Piccolo's power (From a power level of 408 to 1,330), and the change to over 9,000 was just because the guys making the anime wanted to make it fit the lip movements more.
 
Let's see here.

We have Vegeta who was 18,000 at this time I believe

Great Ape Multipled his power by 10 making 180,000

They followed Powel Level pretty well at that point.

Vegeta was enjoying himself by Torturing Goku at that time.

Ginyu was only at 120,000 I believe.

This makes GAV stronger than Ginyu at this point. It makes since as they only beat Vegeta due to his tail being cut. Which is his weakpoint.
 
Great Ape is confirmed to be a power multiplier(not only a Power Level multiplier), so yes Great Ape Vegeta is stronger than Captain Ginyu. Which is why he's in the same tier as captain ginyu.
 
Starkiller215 said:
Okay this is ridiculous as I recall that Goku and Raditz got oneshotted by Piccolo with his special beam cannon while in the manga I recall it was over 8,000 rather than 9,000 when Vegeta use his scouter on Goku during the Saiyan Saga IIRC so yeah I have my doubts on this. I can not trust power level stuff when it comes to the later parts of DBZ.
Click to expand...
Plus this was the early parts of DBZ.
 
We only use Power Levels to tell who is stronger correct? If Vegeta's Power Level in Great Ape form is higher than Ginyu's than what's the problem?

Actually did we ever see a flashback of Vegeta being scared of the Ginyu Force? Vegeta was scared on Namek when he had already lost his tail on Earth. It could be reasonable to assume he wouldn't have been scared had he never lost his tail.
 
The original number were 8000, other thing: Vegeta was weak when he transformed into ape, can't post scan since using a phone, but I remember Krillin said something about that, so GAV power should be around 100k, below Ginyu and above the others, howevet, profile consider the peak.
 
Antoniofer said:
The original number were 8000, other thing: Vegeta was weak when he transformed into ape, can't post scan since using a phone, but I remember Krillin said something about that, so GAV power should be around 100k, below Ginyu and above the others, howevet, profile consider the peak.
Click to expand...
You're choosing your own assumption of someone's Power Level over an official given Power Level? Great Ape Vegeta's power level is 180k and that's an irrefutable fact.
 
Antoniofer said:
The original number were 8000, other thing: Vegeta was weak when he transformed into ape, can't post scan since using a phone, but I remember Krillin said something about that, so GAV power should be around 100k, below Ginyu and above the others, howevet, profile consider the peak.
Click to expand...
He was weakened after he changed back due to having his eye temporarily taken out and such.
 
@Dragonmasterxyz he was probably also not at full power anymore after getting ragdolled and kamehameha'd by Kaio-ken Goku.
 
I think Krillin said that he was weaker when he created the moon; however, I was talking about a weakened ape Vegeta, at his peak, he should have a pl of 180k
 
Uh... this is off topic, but Gregory is an anime / kai exclusive character right? I ask because he is in Super...
 
Yeah but he wasn't at the point he was after his transformation broke. He seemed much weaker post Oozaru.
 
SomebodyData said:
Doesn't that make Kai canon in the process?
Click to expand...
Considering how Kai uses the filler scenes with Hell, which massively contradict what we see in the RoF Saga, no.
 
This is pretty off topic.

DBS does uses Kai footage though. I even think Bulma recounts in Super about her switching bodies with Ginyu even though that never happened in the manga.

(Feel like I should've stay quiet)
 
Hmm, kinda off topic yeah; in short, I would disagree with OP, GAV at his peak should have a PL of 180k, however, the GAV at the time he fought Goku was considered weakened (if someone can check the panel were Vegeta create the moon to verific this, please), so the scene couldn't be considered PIS nor outlier.
 
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