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Valorant's Big Content Revision Thread

Drite77

Drite77

7,620
561

Introduction​

I am going to be clear here, I don't the Valorant profiles are given justice, there is a lot that I wish to discuss here about Valorant in terms of verse, I'll be starting with:
Every Ult can be used from the start without needing kills, deaths or Orbs, that is clear in almost every cinematic, so I won't bother explaining. Time for recharge or lasting should also be considered game mechanics, Raze mentions already having 78 grenades, Jett Dashes multiple times in the Duelist Cinematic without any kill, etc. This also means every agent can use their abilities multiple times regardless of time, such as Omen being able to set multiple smokes without needing to wait, Skye being able to use multiple hawks, etc. Now to some specific Agents Game mechanics

Yoru​

Yoru doesn'tt need to unequip weapons to teleport, nor does it take that long to teleport, as he takes less than a second to actually TP, and he also has his weapon ready without any windup. Same for his ult, as he was able to shoot immediatelly after he left his Ult. The Fact that Yoru's foot prints can likely be heard are a non factor since his rework is tied to Lore so that should not be a weakness, if it ever was

Chamber​

Chamber guns should use the Ammo in the Game, 5 for Tour De Force and 8 for Headhunter, however, Chamber has multiple TDF and HH, which also should be a factor. Chamber also does not need 2 of his Rendezvous to be active at the same time to Teleport, however, he likely still needs to be in a certain range

Viper​

Her smokes work differently in lore, such as they expanding and acting more like actual smokes rather than being intact there. The duration also is not the same as in the game, and she has multiple toxic screens from the looks of the Shattered Cinematic. Like all agents, she has more than 2 Snake Bites

Killjoy​

Killjoy's turret can walk and she likely has more than one

Sage​

Sage's walls has no set height, length or width, as she is seen casting a gigantic Radianite Wall in the Warm Up Cinematic

Phoenix​

Phoenix has more uses of Fire Manipulation than his wall and molly, his flashes should also have an unlimited amount given they are his powers. His Ult also works very differently. For startes, his ult can most likely last indefinetly, as he is seen using it throught out the Retake Cinematic for almost 2 minutes, another change is the fact that he does not carry his weapon with him when his ult ends.

Jett, Brimstone, Cypher, Omen, Reyna, Raze, Breach, Skye, KAY/O, Neon and Fade​

Once Again, infinite uses for all of their abilities, except their ults, which is a casis by casis situation. Skye, Breach, KAY/O, Omen, Brimstone, Cypher, Neon and Fade seem to be able to use their ult without any type of cooldown

Sidenote, every game mechanic here that is contractided by lore will be discarted in favor of the Lore information, until then

Sova​

Sova's shock darts and recon bolt have a likely limited amount but shouldn't really come up at all. His Ult and his drone, however, are likely limited. The drone is in his wrist all times so he likely only has one. His Ult, and this will be a trend, should have only his 3 shots before going on cooldown (Will say how powerfull we should consider them to be later)

Jett​

Jet should have 5 blades for her ult as well due to how mysterious they are in lore. I am willing to believe she has an infinite amount but we don't know for sure

Reyna​

Her ult is likely limited in some way given she never used in the cinematics yet. Her Dismiss should also make unable to shoot as it is consistent with the cinematics

Raze​

Raze has 1 shot of the Showstopper, given I doubt it can reload since it has never shown to be able to, and Raze only carries one of them

KAY/O (Important one)​

Open to discussion here, but I am pretty sure KAY/O can only supress Radianite based tech and powers given there is a line about KAY/O being made to supress Radiants in the wiki, but I was unable to find the source, if anyone finds I would thank you

Chamber​

Adressed before, but Chamber's guns have the same amount of bullets in the game, without being able to reload

With that out of the way, let's go with the AP/Durability of agents and their weapons

All Agents​

All agents will be "9-B+", since all should scale to Raze Grenades with the following reason for AP: "Each Agent can deal a similar amount of damage to Raze's Grenades with their bare hands to each other" wording could have work since it is not my first language

For durability, the same rating, with the following reason: "Can somewhat Tank the first and second explosion of Raze's grenades, which should be this powerfull". Worth noting that the smaller grenades deal the same damage as the initial explosion

Classic, Frenzy, Spectre, Ares, Odin, Ghost and Stinger​

APwise, they'll all be marked as "9-B" (Without the "+"), there will be no justification on the Agent's page itself, but in the verse page under the calculation tab there will be something along the lines of this: "Every weapon who are 9-B, like the Classic and the Spectre, are being downscaled form half of Raze's Grenades (0.00235 Tons of TNT)". Not everyone of those 7 are exactly half of the calc, but it is better to generalize than to create multiple tabs for every weapon, since I think I am already stretching it a bit. Keep in mind, weapons can bypass durability as 9-C weapons, so this should also do that

Phantom, Bulldog and Vandal​

APwise, they'll be marked as "9-B+", there will be no justification on the Agent's page itself, but in the verse page under the calculation tab there will be something along the lines of this: "Every weapon who are 9-B+, like the Phantom and Bulldog, are being downscaled 50% from Raze's Grenades (0.00313 Tons of TNT)". Not everyone of those 3 are exactly that, but ocne again, I don't want to create a lot of tabs for the weapons, since the following will be just for singular weapons

Sheriff and Headhunter​

The Sheriff and Headhunter are "9-B+", with the following reasoning under the same tab "The Sheriff and the Headhunter are the only 9-B+ weapon above the others because they have the same power as Raze's Grenades". Once again, no justification on the Agent's page, including's Chamber for the Headhunter

Guardian​

The Guardian is "9-A" with the following reason "The Guardian is baseline 9-A (0.005 Tons of TNT) due to being slightly above Raze's Grenades", same as above for the weapon in the page

Marshall​

The Marshal is "9-A" with the following reason "The Marshal is scaled up from Raze's Grenades by 83% (0.0086 Tons of TNT)"

Operator, Tour De Force and Showstopper​

The Operator is "9-A" with the following reason "The Operator anbd Showstopper are scaled up from Raze's Grenades by 270% (0.01269 Tons of TNT)". This is porbably is just a place holder for the Showstopper and likely the Operator and Tour De Force, since I'll try to calc Showstopper's blast which may scale to to the former 2. Tour De Force and the Showstopper will be named in the Agent's page, however, with the following tiering "9-B+, 9-A with Showstopper/Tour De Force", the following reason will be in their profiles for the 9-A rating "The Showstopper/Tour De Force should be comparable, if not, superior to the Operator".

Shorty, Bucky and Judge​

The 3 vary from "9-B (No plus) to 9-A", in the verse page, they'll have the following reasoning "Severely dependant range, being able to one shot any agent up close or deal pitifull damage from far away)

Hunter's Fury​

In Sova's page, he'll have the following tier "9-B+, 9-A with Hunter's Fury", the following reason will be in Sova's Profile for the 9-A rating "Each of Hunter's Fury's Individual shot are more powerfull than Raze's Grenades". No such number will be given on his page, but once again, in the verse page the following reasoning will be used "Hunter's Fury is scaled up from Raze's Grenades by 45% (0.006815 Tons of TNT)". Unlike the weapons above, Sova's Ult doesn't bypass durability

Blade Storm​

Just posting this here in case someone asks, Jett's Blade Storm is 9-B+ just like Jett, her profile will just have the following things added "Jett can deal a similar amount of damage to Raze's Grenades with their bare hands to each other. In addition, her own Blade Storms are somewhat comparable to Raze's Grenades"

Now to the Lifting Strength, this one will be quikcer

Most Agents​

They'll all will stay as just Average Human

Skye, KAY/O, Raze and Breach​

They all will be scaled from this, KAY/O made the feat, Breach has robotic arms who should be comparable, Skye was compared to Breach in an arm wrestling, so she scales. Raze was stated to be either stronger or as strong as Breach (I don't remember the video/live stream unfortunate) with this spray to confirm it. Furhter supporting information about her is that she carries the ShowStopper and an ungodly amount of grenades with her, and I also heard on that so called stream I can't find with the devs that Raze was kinda that breaking Breach's arm, though I may be wrong.

Their Reasonign will be the following:

KAY/O: Can Deadlift more than 1 and a Half tons

Breach: Since he has Robotic Arms, he should be comparable to KAY/O

Skye: The same as her profile currently

Raze: Implied to be stronger than Breach, carries about 80 grenades and the Showstopper with her without any sweat, potentially the strongest Valorant Agent Physically (Last part can be removed since I'll say I am biased)

Next I'll be talking about speed

Running Speed​

Every agent will have its running speed downgraded from subsonic to Average Human because of their speed with the knife out, the reason for this is because Brimstone never said Jett can run at 90 mph, if anything, that is just her dash speed. Besides, Phoenix never caught up with Jett on foot, she was clearly outrunning him

Reaction Speed​

Every Agent will be "Subsonic" with this calc. There isn't anything fancy, just something along the lines "Should scale to Yoru, who can move this fast"

Jett​

Jett's running speed will be the following: "Average Human level, Subsonic with her Dash" and the reasoning for it is the 90 mph quote

Neon​

Neon should have a "higher" rating for her running speed with High Gear and Overdrive rating. If anyone can find a statement on how much it is increased that would be neat

Neon's Overdrive Speed​

Neon's speed tier will have the Following rating "Subsonic, higher in Overdrive" with the Overdrive having the following reasoning "While in Overdrive she could dodge gunfire from the Bulldog", linking to this

Weapon's Speed​

Oh god. So like, all the weapons are kinda easy to find given they are based on real guns. I don't wanna name every single gun here but I can explain later I guess. This is not the main subject by far

With every feat in mind, I'll now say to you guys what to be disconsidered in this discussion:

Breach's Fault Line and Rolling Thunder​

Those 2 abilities are not meant to hurt someone. They are just there to stun them. It is also an outlier given every agent can not sustain Raze's Showstopper which I can guarantee to you is several times inferior to this. Those are not damaging abilities and if they would hurt someone they would be considered outliers. Note, this main change if Breach is shown using this to actually hurt someone and not stun them

Breaking Sage's Wall​

Sage's wall are not made of any material known to man, they are radianite, and even then, the agents should not scale to breaking them because they take too long to actually break it. If another verse uses something similar to this, it ain't my fault they are using something that clearly should not scale to them

Phoenix reaction to a Vandal Point blank​

I saw that once and I am glad it is not being used, but just in case, the VP agents are not that fast. If they were, there would be no actuall reason on using their guns because they would just dodge them easily and would only be hit if caught of guard, which is clearly not the case, be it cinematic or gameplay

Yoru's other results of "dodging" the Vandal in Retake​

I already stated on my own calc why those are not eligible to use.

Jett's 90 mph running speed​

It is not running speed

I think that's all folks, I'll be sleeping now, feel free to discuss everything I brought up and I will try to adress any Complain/Criticism with these upgrades/downgrade, see ya in 9 hours or so
 
Reading through the thread, here is my thought:

I agree with the first one. It should be noted that some Agents are willing to use their ults right from the get-go as well (Phoenix, KAY/O, Jett)

For second one:
  • Sova only carried a limited amount of bolts in the quiver as shown in his artwork.
  • Jett's blades are most likely limited too since she didn't use it twice in Dualist cinematic.
  • Reyna's ult is still unknown so until we seen how it work on-screen then I believe it's better to call it permanent transformation for now.
  • As for KAY/O, I don't think Radianite-based powers and tech should be different from conventional superpowers/technology, especially with verse equalization.
  • I agree with the rest.
AP/Durability for Agents and Weapons:
  • I agree with the new scaling for Agents, now they have an concrete value for 9-B.
  • I'm don't know where you get the scaling numbers for weapons so I will leave it out.
  • Agree with new scaling for Agent' ults.
Lifting Strength:
  • Agree with everything.
Speed:
  • Agree with downgrading Agents speed to Average Human, although I do recall that most Agents being fit physically.
For the last one:
  • Agree with most of these but I want to remind that Phoenix did dodge the Vandal, twice so we can get reaction speed from it.
All and all, this is a well researched thread and I will try to look for new things too. I'm really glad that there are someone revising the verse because doing it alone is quite taxing.
 
Woke up. I was led to believe Phoenix dodged a point blank shot from the Vandal, but that doesn't seem to be the case since the Robot is very far away.

I could calc it as well but since it is a Vandal and not a Bulldog I don't think it will give upgrades, probably could be used as a supporting Subsonic feat if anything.

One thing I forgot to say in this thread, the creation of a "Optional Equipment" tab for the guns in all profiles. Every Agent has access to the Kingdom guns and not just a select few. The cinematics and official artwork could be used for the weapons they enjoy the most but they shouldn't be limited to only them, since that would mean some of them would be unarmed when that is likely not the case since Breach (Who haven't used any weapons) is heard using a gun in the Fade audio
 
  • I agree with the new scaling for Agents, now they have an concrete value for 9-B.
  • I'm don't know where you get the scaling numbers for weapons so I will leave it out.
Click to expand...
I used in game vallues compared to Raze's Grenades (They deal 55 damage per explosion)
 
One of the times, Phoenix moved his whole body to react to the Vandal bullets, meaning it wouldn’t be just a reaction speed feat and also movement too
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
One of the times, Phoenix moved his whole body to react to the Vandal bullets, meaning it wouldn’t be just a reaction speed feat and also movement too
Click to expand...
Nah, pretty sure it would be qualified as reaction only. Everytime a feat like that happens it is only reaction, never movement, afaik
 
Uh, we don't use game mechanics that aren't backed up by the lore, just because they're not contradicted. We dismiss game mechanics in general, like health points and damage points, unless they are backed up lore-wise. These aren't.

"Sidenote, every game mechanic here that is contractided by lore will be discarted in favor of the Lore information, until then" This is not how we treat game mechanics. Never has been.
 
That never came into play at all... Overwatch people only stopped using because of Word of God, I never saw people complaining about it untill said Word of God came, and Overwatch wasn't unpopular at all, had a lot of Moderators and Staff on the Downgrade CRT and no one ever said a thing about it untill, once again, the WoG came into play
 
Then people did it wrong from the get-go. The game mechanics page should be followed. If you disagree with that standard, go change that standard. I don't care about arguments from tradition.
 
Alrighty, some weapons are above and some are below Raze grenades regardless. Tons of verses use 2x/3x/half modifiers from what I've seen so I don't see why that can't be used for Valorant. Even if the exact modifiers are changed, some weapons are still above others while some are below and that should be somewhat noticed

The fact Valorant's abilities can raise Rate of Fire shouldn't be considered Game mechanics as well, since there isn't really an indicative they don't work like that in cannon. Once Again, Overwatch's abilities were said to work like in game until that phrase, so I don't see why the Stin Beacon, Empress or NULL/cmd wouldn't be able to raise Rate of Fire as well
 
...where did I say raising Rate of Fire should be treated as game mechanics? Literally nowhere. You're not even talking about the right thread at this point. I said it isn't shown to make a difference in-game for semi-automatics ON A VS THREAD, and then tried to say that since it just canonically speeds up their actions, they should be able to shoot semi-autos faster out of the game anyway.
 
Axxtentacle said:
Uh, we don't use game mechanics that aren't backed up by the lore, just because they're not contradicted. We dismiss game mechanics in general, like health points and damage points, unless they are backed up lore-wise. These aren't.

"Sidenote, every game mechanic here that is contractided by lore will be discarted in favor of the Lore information, until then" This is not how we treat game mechanics. Never has been.
Click to expand...
This. We don't directly use game numbers for damage/health values and the like unless they have good backing. A lack of contradictions is not good enough backing.

You can still use the vague functions of abilities, like "This makes you hit harder, this makes you shoot faster" but you can't use the exact amps as Multipliers.
 
Agnaa said:
This. We don't directly use game numbers for damage/health values and the like unless they have good backing. A lack of contradictions is not good enough backing.

You can still use the vague functions of abilities, like "This makes you hit harder, this makes you shoot faster" but you can't use the exact amps as Multipliers.
Click to expand...
What about the verses who use modifiers like One Piece or Nanatsu no Taizai? Wouldn't modifiers like that be able to be used?
 
Drite77 said:
What about the verses who use modifiers like One Piece or Nanatsu no Taizai? Wouldn't modifiers like that be able to be used?
Click to expand...
Video games face harsher scrutiny than other mediums, since they don't have the concern of game mechanics.
 
The only thing that it changes are the Weapons, not really that big of a deal, big enough to make me wanna think about it tomorrow I guess. I'll just get a Showstopper calc ASAP and call some weapons baseline 9-A while others just stay at the 9-B+ I guess
 
So what, is it to just remove the weapons sections and just put every weapon to 9-B+ and the strongest weapons to baseline 9-A? No one mentioned anything but i assume the part of Dura negation should be removed as well given people were making fun of it in Discord.

Anything else?
 
Drite77 said:
So what, is it to just remove the weapons sections and just put every weapon to 9-B+ and the strongest weapons to baseline 9-A? No one mentioned anything but i assume the part of Dura negation should be removed as well given people were making fun of it in Discord.

Anything else?
Click to expand...
That is correct, I guess. Did I miss something about Dura Negation?

Should Brimestone Ultimate be 9-A as well since it supposedly deals a huge amount of damage according to his profile.
 
If ya really wanna stretch it we cal call it Plasma and calc the energy from there I guess
 
Unfortunately nothing in Val gameplay destroys anything but we have statements like Neon saying she could “take out half of HQ” at full power, which would be like 8-C to High 8-C
 
Durability Negation via guns just isn't a thing, so yes. That shouldn't be used.

It's just surface area so it penetrates tougher surfaces easier.
 
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