Valkyrie Cain vs Mami Tomoe

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Darquesse vs Candeloro (subject to change if necessary)

Win via KO, incapacitation, or death. SPEED EQUALIZED

 

[Schnee_One]

So like....

Valk has exactly one move to beat her dura and gets one shot by anything

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Power Nullification, Regen, Existence Erasure, Pain and Death Inducement, Attack Reflection, and Forcefield Creation all say otherwise. Should've mentioned also we're using the high end of Darquesse.

 

[Scarletmoon56]

It looks like Darquesse haxes Mami into oblivion.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Bump

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Bump

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Bump

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I've decided to do a full analysis.

Mami's stuff

Immortality (Types 2, 6 and 7) - none of which are going to help her when Darquesse atomically scatters her and her soul gem.

Magic - Darquesse analyses, copies, and nullifies.

Energy Projection - Darquesse catches and throws the energy straight back at her. Then copies it for good measure.

Weapon Creation - Unless she pulls a gilgamesh and creates a gun directly behind Darquesse, this won't help. And even then it still might not help seeing as Darquesse would just sense the weapon/magic creating it.

Weapon Enhancing - again, not going to help.

Healing (Mid level, scaled from Corbeau) - gets atomically scattered, transmuted, or erased, or just has her head blown up.

Telepathy - only via Kyubey iirc, and not combat applicable.

Telekinesis - only for her guns, and Darquesse has much better TK

Transformation - only for becoming magical girl.

Gets stronger when critically damaged - a nice ability, but Darquesse isn't going to critically damage Mami, she's going to freaking tear her into bite sized chunks.

Resistance to Magic, Mind Manipulation, Life Absorption and Status Effect Inducement - ok, some useful stuff. Seeing as all Darquesse's abilities are magic, Mami might be able to resist some of her abilities. That being said, we don't consider "resistance to magic" to mean "resistance to all applications of magic", so it's still probably not going to help that much against being atomically ripped apart or erased from existence. Resistance to mind manipulation is good though, means Darquesse can't just take control of her.

Unconventional Soul Manipulation Resistance - due to the soul gem. Honestly though, this is a major problem for Mami. Darquesse can see souls, so when she sees that Mami's is in her soul gem, she's just going to go right for it.

Statistics Amplification (Speed and Attack Potency) - nice, but Darquesse has much the same thing, becoming increasingly stronger and more powerful the longer she is "out" as the dominant personality.

Magic Detectio - does it act like a spider sense, or just "there's a magic person over there"?

Thread Manipulation - normally I'd laugh at this ability, but Mami's is pretty good. Still, I don't think it would be very useful against Darquesse.

Duplication - making decoys. I doubt they'd fool Darquesse, who can see magic and souls.

Can make her bullets explode - some nice AoE

Status Effect Inducement (Ignites enemies with Tiro Finale) - Isn't this just fire manipulation? Why status effect inducement? Either way, Darquesse just nullifies the fire or something.

Power Nullification with Ribbon Trap - Darquesse resists

Information Analysis (With Weakness Analysis) - So she knows exactly how screwed she is in advance. Wonderful. More seriously though, I don't know what information this gives, but if it tells about Darquesse's "destroy the brain" weakness, that is an advantage. Just a question of if she can actually make use of that information before Darquesse kills her.

Attack Reflection (With Gun of Aegis) - what sort of attacks? Physical/energy attacks, telekinetic attacks?

Forcefield Creation (With Absolute Territory) - how good is the forcefield? Does it just stop physical attacks, or can it somehow keep out the Black Flames (which Darquesse can just make appear on her targets)

Darquesse's stuff

Magic (including manipulation the magic of others to stop them using it or force it to activate) - yeah. Very good stuff. Darquesse could just prevent Mami from using any of her abilities, or force her to use it until she turns into a witch (not that that would be great for either of them, but Darquesse would still probably win)

Elemental Manipulation - meh

Darkness Manipulation - Shadows forming blades and tendrils and whips and shields that act on their own to protect her from threats and have enough range to cover an entire battlefield? Quite good

Flight - a tad more agility (Mami's pretty good with her spiderman swings) and can play keep away.

Forcefield Creation - very useful, considering that Mami destroying Darquesse's brain is about the only way she can put her down.

Enhanced Senses - no sneaking up on her

Able to perceive the flow of souls, magic, and energy and can replicate them - Darquesse can see where Mami is hiding her soul, sense the magical abilities she is about to use, and can copy all her magic.

Soul Manipulation - normally I'd say useful, but in this case it's redundant seeing as Mami's soul is in a breakable physical form.

Dream Manipulation - not useful

Mind Manipulation - Mami resists.

Regenerationn (Mid, capable of healing gun wounds to the head and reattaching her severed head to her body) - quite useful. She can heal any damage to herself caused by Mami's bullets as long as it doesn't outright destroy her brain. And it's done almost instantly, so it's faster than Mami's regen.

Power Nullification (Can manipulate the magic of others to prevent them from using their magic, passive or active) - very useful. Basically shuts down most of Mami's options.

Attack Reflection - she reflects energy attacks.

Existence Erasure - if through some miracle Mami survives everything else, this will kill her, seeing as Black Flames appears instantly at the target's location.

Absorption (can absorb the energy of those she kills to grow stronger) - not that useful here. If it was Witch Mami, she could absorb the familiars though.

Can increase her density to increase her durability - fairly useful for surviving Mami's attacks.

Necromancy - nothing too fancy. Mostly just the aforementioned Darkness Manipulation. Don't remember her ever pulling zombie army stunts, or implying she could.

Telekinesis (on a sub-atomic scale) - either she sub-atomically atomises Mami, or she turns her into a rubber ducky.

Energy Manipulation - fun, but outclassed by the other stuff she has.

can "shunt" between universes - she can avoid Mami's attacks (never used it like that though) or temporarily retreat to another universe (has used it like that) where Mami can't reach if she needs time to recover.

Can reduce or shut off her own sense of pain - not that Mami has any pain manipulation.

Possession - interesting. I'm curious if she could possess the telepathic magical girls, but for now I don't think this is very useful.

Pain inducement - could possibly incapacitate Mami with pain, seeing as Mami never to my knowledge pulled a Sayaka-I-Don't-Feel-Anything-Miki.

Resistance against Magic - useful

Resistance against Clairvoyance and Precognition - Mami has neither

Reistance to Power Nullification - Seeing as this is one of Mami's trump cards...

Resistance to Sealing - Mami doesn't have it.

Resistance to Sleep Manipulation and Power Drain - Mami has neither

Resistance to Possession - so the type 6 immortality (which I've never been clear on how it works) won't work anyway.

Soul Manipulation - Mami doesn't have it in this form, but if she turned into a witch Darquesse would straight up ignore the Witches Kiss.

Mind Manipulation (including telepathy) - oh hey, I forgot Darquesse resists telepathy. So if Mami tries to read her mind (I don't remember her doing that in PMMM, but I haven't seen any other PM stuff except Rebellion, so tell me if she did it elsewhere), she either fails, or makes the mistake of entering Darquesse's mind and gets mind-haxed.

Conclusion

So, with that done, I'm inclined to say Darquesse wins rather decisively, bordering on a stomp. Oh sure, maybe Mami could win if she sees what Darquesse can do and goes all out from the start and manages to get a headshot, but more often than not she's just going to get power nulled, power copied, and atomised.

 

[Schnee_One]

So......

Stomp or what?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Borderline.

Mami ca kill Darquesse by blowing up her head, and has a lot of guns and bullets to do so with, and Darquesse would be too interested in observing and experimenting with Mami's magic to straight up atomise/erase her off the bat.

If either of those things weren't true though, I'd say stomp.

I'd make it witch Mami if you want it to be not a borderline stomp (witch Mami can do everything normal Mami does right?)

 

[Schnee_One]

K Darq FRA

That said what's his chance of dodging the ribbons?

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Saying Mami should rely on lucky shot is like saying that she has exactly 1% chance in here. At least in who hits who first scenario fight, each combatants have the same amount percentage of winning.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

That said what's his chance of dodging the ribbons?

Darquesse is a girl.

And pretty high. She can:

- sense them coming via sensing the magic in them / use to control or create them

- fly away.

- teleport to another universe.

- atomise the ribbons before they catch her

- if they do catch her, she resists the power null and atomises the ribbons

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Homu I don't mean a lucky shot. Mami is skilled enough and an extremely good combat tactician and strategist. She could manage to get the kill, but she'd need to be relying on her information analysis telling her what Darquesse can do, and immediately hitting her with everything she had.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Go over the extra abilities Mami gets with Candeloro like you did earlier pls?

 

[Scarletmoon56]

Monarch hit the nail in the coffin. Darquesse FRA.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

All previous abilities as a magical girl - see above

Reality Warping - don't remember it being that combat applicable. I think it was just for making the Labyrinth. Though if she can actively change the Labyrinth's configuration and layout, she could make it difficult for Darquesse to get to her.

Familiar Summoning - I don't know how powerful they are, but Darquesse probably atomises them and absorbs their energy.

Mind Manipulation - Darquesse resisted thousands of Remnants trying to possess her at once, when she was extremely weakened and on the point of death. Witches Kiss won't do much

Immortality (Type 8, depends on the existance of her familiars) - Wouldn't be too hard for Darquesse to kill them all. However, it's still an extra bit of time for Candeloro to start to go all out.

Plus they'd be in the Labyrinth, so Candeloro would have a home field advantage.

Like I said. Darquesse still wins pretty handily, but Mami has a better chance, seeing as now she can trip Darquesse up and distract her with familiars and labyrinth shenanigans.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

I'll switch it to Candeloro, why not.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Well, Mami is at least over three times stronger in AP, scaling to 18 megatons from second timeline Madoka, so Darq non hax attack won't be able to scratch her.

But I gotta ask, what is her first move?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

While far, far weaker than her present state, Darquesse stated she could easily turn a city (I think Dublin) to dust. When she nuked Roarhaven, she was on the verge of death and had expended the majority of her power fighting boosted Vile and Melancholia. I think they're pretty close honestly.

It depends really. She's really bloodthirsty, and her first appearance has her just start slaughtering a bunch of possessed sorcerers trying to worship her. She generally doesn't hold back or play around with anyone unless they have some emotional connection to her, like Skulduggery does, instead just ripping them apart or burning them alive. However, she's also very interested in learning more, so if she sees that Candeloro has a magic that she's never experienced before, she'd want to experiment with it a bit, and wouldn't immediately atomise her. To give an example of her "experimenting", Darquesse allowed Lord Vile to poke out her eyes so she could feel what it was like to have someone poke out her eyes. However, she was also in complete control of the situation here. As soon as she was done screaming and enjoying the pain, she shut off the pain and healed her eye in an instant. She knew she was never in any real danger.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

So basically, she let her opponent to have the first shot? Would she gonna be like, she wish to has a bullet through her eye and see what will happen?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Not quite, no. If she doesn't have any emotional or intellectual reason stopping her from killing them, she'd just atomise them, regardless of who they are. And even if she does have a reason, she's not just going to let them hit her. She only did that once, and it was more like Superman letting a mugger hit him - she knew there was no way it would do any damage.

For this fight in particular, she does have an intellectual reason though - she wants to learn more about Candel's magic. Even so, I wouldn't say she'd let the attack actually hit her (considering she can perceive magic with enough skill to know what the magic is going to do, and would thus not stand still for an attack that could kill her), but she'd at least let Candeloro get the attack off, if only to see what it does.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

So if Caldolero decided to open the fight by spamming hundreds of bullets at once, what is she gonna do?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Forcefields or telekinetic atomisation of the bullets probably.

Or teleport to another universe.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Force will most likely not gonna work due the AP difference, her Magical girl form is already stronger than 18 megatons, Caldolero is even stronger than that.

Teleportation might work, but that will give Caldolero some prep time to change the lay out of her labyrinth, setting up some traps and creates some duplicates as the means to ganged up on her as soon as she appears in her labyrinth again. (Should I mention that the duplicate is as strong as the original).

Also, since this takes place in Caldolero labyrinth, she can keeps just body hopping with her duplicates or her familars just in case if Darq was about to do something to her. At the same time, she can just changed out the lay out of her labyrinth again and again.

That said, I think this is inconclusive. Darq can just teleporting to other universe to dodge Mami huge aoe Tiro Finale while Mami can just bodyhopping with her dupllicates or familiar.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

So... I just looked at a respect thread for Darquesse...

And I have since added the ability to bypass forcefields, and BFR people to alternate universes on contact, universes which may have reverses laws of physics and are thus not entirely amicable to life.

If that changes anything.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I will also point out that Darquesse can analyse and mimic a person's magical abilities within seconds of looking at them, so anything Candel does, Darquesse is going to start doing to, sooner or later.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Oh, then this is a stomp then. Darq can take out Mami via numerous ways now while Mami herself has to hit a specific point in order to win. Mami AP will do little to nothing at all. There is a chance, but it is around 0.01% of it to make it works.

Darq stomps via wall of text.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Valkyrie: 3 (Monarch Laciel, Scarletmoon56, Gargoyle One)

Mami: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Uh, how does her power mimicry, BFR forcefield bypassing change your points much exactly?

Forcefields - we were talking about Darquesse's forcefields, which can still be overpowered by the AP advantage

Caldolero having some impromptu prep time - don't see how those 3 abilities change this

Duplicates as strong as the original - ok, this being duplicated could change things. Do they all have her powers too?

Body hopping - still a good way for Mami to avoid hits.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Darq can BFR her, Darq can used Mami own abilities against her, Darq can burns her with black flame, Darq can tear her apart with telekinesis.

She also has power null, which can be used before Mami used her magic, and teleportation to another universe as her defense.

While Mami only has duplication which has only shown to create only one duplicate (I forgot that this isn't AoC), familiars which all of them are just fodders. Body hopping is good and all, but considering darq can percieves soul, she will always find her and know from where Mami is going to attack, making her attack is predictable which also lessing her chance to win even more as of sha has to his one specific point is not hard enough, especially with someone that has some defense hax like Darq

Yeah, pretty much this a stomp. Mami hax is not that potent as everyone believes.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I thought witches don't have souls? Aren't they the result of the soul gem breaking?

And BFR requires contact, so body hopping still works.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

But power null shuts that down, so yeah, this is a stomp.

Ok.

My dreams of Val getting a win on her profile are shattered again.