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DontTalkDT

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Cassandra Cain vs Valkyrie Cain

Cassie gets all her optional equipment, except the Dimensiometer
Speed Equal
Pre-Surge Valkyrie
Pre-Death Cassandra
SBA otherwise

Who wins?
 
Isn't Valkyrie's resistance negation, deconstruction and Dura neg kinda busted? Or does she not use that in character?
 
Isn't Valkyrie's resistance negation, deconstruction and Dura neg kinda busted? Or does she not use that in character?
The latter two are only if she has the sceptre of the ancients. That's optional equipment which she doesn't have here.
The resistance negation... well, we are talking about negating a resistance against a not durability negating power. Since Cassandra doesn't resist darkness manip, the resistance negation does nothing.
Basically: Valkyrie can't negate durability here, aside from maybe with her taser stick. Cause it's a taser.
 
Ahhh, I see, I see.

So, my next question would be, what can she do against the superior skillset of Cassandra? By far, she is one of the most skilled people in the entire franchise, and got some really good analytical predictions and technique mimicry which makes defeating her extremely hard.
 
Well, Valkyrie's magically armoured clothes should probably protect her non-exposed pressure points. So that's something.
Then she herself is a very good fighter. She was trained by some of the best fighters in the world, after all. However, I won't deny that she has the disadvantage in pure combat skill.
However, she has the advantage of being a magician to make up for it. She is not solely reliant on fist and weapon fighting.
She can transform shadows around her into whips and spears or create barriers of darkness to block attacks. She can also launch fireballs and manipulate the air. The latter in particular should be really hard to dodge, as air is a) invisible and b) already around you, meaning no real travel time for the attack.
 
How quickly does she start using air manip? Since her range is decently high, I wonder if Cassandra can do something before she starts using her air manip
 
I just noticed that Cassandra's profile lacks a range section. Weird.

I'm pretty sure Valkyrie will throw something if Cassandra approaches her. Whether she would go for air, fire or shadows is hard to tell, though. She does like all of them.
 
Oh shit, I didn't see that either. I will ask Tracer to fix that now. But she is more of a standard melee ranged fighter.
 
Cassandra's range has been added. It seems she can go higher with batarangs and explosives.
 
Holy shit i just bought Dead or Alive today what a coincidence!
 
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How quickly does she start using air manip? Since her range is decently high, I wonder if Cassandra can do something before she starts using her air manip
She usually starts with air manip. She consistently uses it more as an opening move then fire manip from what i remember. So she'd click and fling Cassie into a nearby wall or something to start off with.
 
She usually starts with air manip. She consistently uses it more as an opening move then fire manip from what i remember. So she'd click and fling Cassie into a nearby wall or something to start off with.
But does she go for suffocation as quickly or...? If so, I honestly can't see Cassandra doing much unless the distance is insanely huge
 
But does she go for suffocation as quickly or...? If so, I honestly can't see Cassandra doing much unless the distance is insanely huge
No she wouldn't go to suffocate, she'd just fling Cassandra (calling her cassie from now on) around. Suffocation has hardly (if ever) happened in Skullduggery so it's unlikely that she would, flinging however happens countless times.
 
I see, so I can see Cassandra reading her movements and try her best to dodge while attacking with batarangs and explosives
 
What stops Cassie from reading everything she does by the movement of their body?
If Valk realises this, she'll stick to her inconspicuous abilities such as necromancy, which is thought based or just stick to regular magic which i doubt Cassie would catch on to instantly
 
I see, so I can see Cassandra reading her movements and try her best to dodge while attacking with batarangs and explosives
Valk's clothing should protect from most of the impact from explosives and forgive me if im misremembering he clothing also protects her from knives aswell.
 
If Valk realises this, she'll stick to her inconspicuous abilities such as necromancy, which is thought based or just stick to regular magic which i doubt Cassie would catch on to instantly
How would she realize it? Cassandra doesn’t go around telling people she does that.
 
Okay? She’s fought seasoned fighters and they still don’t know.
Okay? That's probably due to the fighters not having another primary form of attack that is completely thought based??

Like what do you expect to happen. "Oh this character is predicting my attacks and as a result aren't getting hit. Should i continue doing what doesn't work OR use an attack mode i use all the time and would nullify this issue."
 
Okay? That's probably due to the fighters not having another primary form of attack that is completely thought based??

Like what do you expect to happen. "Oh this character is predicting my attacks and as a result aren't getting hit. Should i continue doing what doesn't work OR use an attack mode i use all the time and would nullify this issue."
No, you’re arguing on assumptions when you say probably. Prove she would be able to notice it, especially since Cassandra hardly talks, much less in battle.
 
No, you’re arguing on assumptions when you say probably. Prove she would be able to notice it, especially since Cassandra hardly talks, much less in battle.
When someone jumps to the side a moment before I launch my attack several times, I would notice that they are predicting my attacks. And I'm not a seasoned fighter.
This stuff is hard to notice when you're in hand to hand combat, since it's difficult to differentiate from a simple reaction then, but not against a ranged attack that you can only really dodge by predicting it happens. Like, imagine you point at a normal human with a gun and they keep moving away the moment before you press the trigger. That kind of stuff is a dead giveaway.
 
No, you’re arguing on assumptions when you say probably. Prove she would be able to notice it, especially since Cassandra hardly talks, much less in battle.
Its not an assumption its common sense. If you are familiar and use two types of fighting and realise your elemental abilities aren't working you'll obviously switch to an ability that wouldn't enable you to be countered as easily. It's. That. Simple.

To argue otherwise is stupid. Yeah Valk is going to get all her moves read and not switch up her attack pattern?
 
When someone jumps to the side a moment before I launch my attack several times, I would notice that they are predicting my attacks. And I'm not a seasoned fighter.
This stuff is hard to notice when you're in hand to hand combat, since it's difficult to differentiate from a simple reaction then, but not against a ranged attack that you can only really dodge by predicting it happens. Like, imagine you point at a normal human with a gun and they keep moving away the moment before you press the trigger. That kind of stuff is a dead giveaway.
Does she start with a weapon or H2H? Because that’s the scenario I’m envisioning, and why I say she wouldn’t notice.
 
Does she start with a weapon or H2H? Because that’s the scenario I’m envisioning, and why I say she wouldn’t notice.
it's dependent on the matchup she faces, but she usually doesn't just straight run up to the enemy and throw hands, well atleast not pre surge Valk.... So it's a safe bet she'll start with flinging her opponent backwards with air manip, skullduggery style.
 
Air Manip? How does she use it?
described as "interlocking" the air but its as easy as just a click of her fingers, same with fire aswell. A click of her fingers and a fireball emerges. As for her necromancy its thoughtbased and her power comes from her ring which holds the shadows.
 
Could valk just use air manip to knock her projectiles out of the air? If she can, and also has near thought based instant ranged attacks that can fling adults around, I don't see any feasible way she'd lose beyond actively trying to.
If she can't then I guess its just whoever hits first.
 
After reading both their profiles:
Valkyrie has Electricity manipulation, where as Cassandra can stop someones heart by hitting their pressure points, plus she is more skilled than Batman so she definitely outskills and wins.
 
And why can she not just dodge the fireball?

Along with combating the shadows with fire & explosions?
how is she going to dodge Valk's necromancy. That's extremely fluid, has large range and aoe and is thought based, meaning its basically impossible to predict via Valk's movements whilst their speed is equalised....
 
where as Cassandra can stop someones heart by hitting their pressure points, plus she is more skilled than Batman so she definitely outskills and wins.
how does this heart stopping stuff work? Because Valk resists most of her stuff with her magical clothing. Also how is she going to get close to Valk with a shit ton of cc abilities and equalised speed.....
 
how is she going to dodge Valk's necromancy. That's extremely fluid, has large range and aoe and is thought based, meaning its basically impossible to predict via Valk's movements whilst their speed is equalised....
Why are you asking a question to something I never asked?

I said combating her shadows with fire & explosions.
 
Why are you asking a question to something I never asked?

I said combating her shadows with fire & explosions.
oooh mb i thought you meant she could dodge both that's completely my fault, as for combatting shadows with fire and explosion she could, although Valk being described as a candidate for the Death Bringer and trained by Wreath himself is a very proficent user. So can Claire just spam fire and explosions? Although i've never seen this used as a counter and ill have to reread parts of Death Bringer to give you a conclusive answer it could be a possibility.
This is all just reading body movement, to predict the thoughts people just started thinking, nothing here shows her as having a way to read thoughts the way she'd need to, to counter necromancy.....
 
This is all just reading body movement, to predict the thoughts people just started thinking, nothing here shows her as having a way to read thoughts the way she'd need to, to counter necromancy.....
Every single person moves. From their chest rising and falling, to them blinking, etc. Cassandra picks up on all of that, and knows what you’re going to do.
 
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