Upgrade for the MCU's High 6-C characters

[Sir_Marvulous]

This 6-B feat performed by Captain Marvel is no longer deemed an outlier due to the upper limit for pre-Love and Thunder characters being recalced at 12.6 times higher than what it previously was, making it High 6-B.

Captain Marvel causes a blast in Xandar's Core

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MCU: Surtur Commits Sudoku and Blows up Asgard

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Henceforth, high tier MCU characters should scale to it.

Now why should we scale canon characters to this feat from What If?

1. The Carol that performed this feat is identical to her canon self.​
2. We've already accepted Sorcerer Supreme Strange getting 9-A+ and the protection spell because of his What If counterpart being near identical to him so it's not like we haven't already scaled from What If feats. In fact, this is an even better case because this Captain Marvel has an identical past history up to the point of 2018, so she's even more identical to her canon self than What If Strange.​
3. We've been given the green light by a staff member to use What If feats albeit sparingly. This is sparingly (character that is identical to their canon self).​

Thus, it's fairly reasonable to scale canon characters to this feat.

Those who get affected by this change are

• Those who are currently 'At least High 6-C' or have a rating related to this scaling chain
• Hulk (he should not be 104 times weaker than those in this scaling chain, 104 times being the difference between the High 6-C value and the 6-B value)

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

@Qawsedf234 @KLOL506 @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Colonel_Krukov @Hellbeast

I think this looks fine for the most part. But I'll wait to see whatever responses will be brought up to this.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

If this does get accepted.

• Captain Marvel level characters like Thanos become full on "6-B".
• Characters that downscale from Thanos like Iron Man, Captain America and Ragnarok Hulk become "At most 6-B".
• Those above Thanos like Scarlet Witch and Hela become "At least 6-B".

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I'm okay with this also

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

If this does get accepted.

Captain Marvel level characters like Thanos become full on 6-B. Characters that downscale from Thanos like Iron Man, Captain America and Ragnarok Hulk become At most 6-B. Those above Thanos like Scarlet Witch and Hela become At least 6-B

Pretty much this

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Agreed

If this does get accepted.

Captain Marvel level characters like Thanos become full on 6-B. Characters that downscale from Thanos like Iron Man, Captain America and Ragnarok Hulk become At most 6-B. Those above Thanos like Scarlet Witch and Hela become At least 6-B

Yes

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Why at most? For instance, when they were still 6-C, the downscalers got a solid rating

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Why at most? For instance, when they were still 6-C, the downscalers got a solid rating

Because they scaled to another (Even more baseline. 4.4 Gigatons) 6-C rating. Via the 10x bifrost multiplier. But we've debunked the 10x multiplier but no one bothered to make a CRT to remove it.

That's why they were 6-C rather than At most 6-C

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Because they scaled to another (Even more baseline. 4.4 Gigatons) 6-C rating. Via the 10x bifrost multiplier. But we've debunked the 10x multiplier but no one bothered to make a CRT to remove it.

That's why they were 6-C rather than At most 6-C

That makes sense.

 

[Qawsedf234]

If this does get accepted.

I'm still not for it. The feat Captain Marvel preforms blows every she's done out of the water and it's by a version of the character we know absolutely nothing about.

The reason why Strange was accepted is because we are directly told and shown that his version of the character is the same as the mainline version barring a single origin difference. We have no idea if that hold true for Infinity Ultron Captain Marvel.

A prime example is Bro Thor, who despite being Thor without Loki has similar levels of power to Awakened Thor if you take his multiple fights with Captain Marvel into account but us visually 1:1 with Phase I Thor.

outlier due to the upper limit for pre-Love and Thunder characters being recalced at 12.6 times higher than what it previously was, making it High 6-B.

Being casually 13 times than an attack that knocked Thor out still makes it a massive issue. Even if it's not Tens of thousands of times better like before. It's not consistent and it still has its host of problems.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

We should add these calcs to the verse page. 17.44 Teratons is the value.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Being casually 13 times than an attack that knocked Thor out still makes it a massive issue. Even if it's not Tens of thousands of times better like before. It's not consistent and it still has its host of problems.

You seem to have misread. The Asgard explosion is now 12.6 times higher than what it was previously calculated to be, not a separate value.

 

[Dalesean027]

There's actually a second 6-B feat from CM on the Party Thor episode that's also coincidentally sub-relativistic so it's pretty in line I'd say considering we have another one that's the same and with the mainline self being high 6-C and sub rel

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I agree with the upgrades.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I'm still not for it. The feat Captain Marvel preforms blows every she's done out of the water and it's by a version of the character we know absolutely nothing about.

The reason why Strange was accepted is because we are directly told and shown that his version of the character is the same as the mainline version barring a single origin difference. We have no idea if that hold true for Infinity Ultron Captain Marvel.

A prime example is Bro Thor, who despite being Thor without Loki has similar levels of power to Awakened Thor if you take his multiple fights with Captain Marvel into account but us visually 1:1 with Phase I Thor.

Also, there's otherwise nothing to suggest that the Captain Marvel from this episode is any different from her canon counterpart. Occam's razor dictates she's the same. That and canon Captain Marvel after awakening her true power doesn't have an array of consistent feats that contradict this or an upper value she struggled with that makes 6-B an outlier.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Also, High 6-C (which I assume Qawsedf means) wasn't any kind of upper limit, at least not for post-Awakening tier characters so it doesn't seem contradictory yet

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Also, there's otherwise nothing to suggest that the Captain Marvel from this episode is any different from her canon counterpart. Occam's razor dictates she's the same. That and canon Captain Marvel after awakening her true power doesn't have an array of consistent feats that contradict this or an upper value she struggled with that makes 6-B an outlier.

The only thing that changed in Infinite Ultron's Episode was him getting Vision's Body. Aside from the weird Infinity Stone Inconsistency from Thanos, nothing about the past events before Age of Ultron changed which is the whole point of What If.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

And the same was said for High 6-C. It seemed weird since nothing was close that was legitimate but it was allowed because everything else performed by the one doing the feat in question did it utterly unconcerned

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

In fact, it's the same exact thing for the 6-C snap value. Nothing else that seemed legitimate yielded anything close but again it was allowed because everything else wasn't some sort of limiter

 

[RoTt35]

I agree with the upgrades. There's also this scene where Captain Marvel was able to withstand several explosions from the same Kree missiles that were calculated at Low 6-B

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I agree with the upgrades. There's also this scene where Captain Marvel was able to withstand several explosions from the same Kree missiles that were calculated at Low 6-B

Oh yeah. This ain't an outlier anymore either.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I agree with the upgrades. There's also this scene where Captain Marvel was able to withstand several explosions from the same Kree missiles that were calculated at Low 6-B

I always forget about that Calc.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

6-B is looking fair and reasonable here

 

[Qawsedf234]

Also, there's otherwise nothing to suggest that the Captain Marvel from this episode is any different from her canon counterpart.

There's nothing suggesting she's the same. The reason Strange was accepted was because there was evidence saying he was the same with a minor difference. Captain Marvel does not have anywhere near the evidence he does.

Occam's razor dictates she's the same.

Occam's razor is that the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one. Infinity Ultron Captain Marvel preforms a feat that blows her canon version out of the water, so the simplest explanation is that she's different or stronger. So from my view Occam's Razor dictates they aren't the same and are not comparable.
Thor was literally knocked out. Its his upper limit and him going 100%.

There's also this scene where Captain Marvel was able to withstand several explosions from the same Kree missiles that were calculated at Low 6-B

But the important part is that she doesn't withstand them at point blank range. All of the missiles have already exploded and expanded to hundreds of meters by the time she flies through them, which significantly reduces the amount of energy she is exposed to.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Thor was literally knocked out. Its his upper limit and him going 100%.

For a Thor before he awakened his true power

 

[Qawsedf234]

For a Thor before he awakened his true power

It still knocked him out and its still the value that people are scaling to for fighting him on losing or even footing.

Also, there's otherwise nothing to suggest that the Captain Marvel from this episode is any different from her canon counterpart.

There's nothing suggesting she's the same either. The reason Strange was allowed is that there's evidence saying he's the same except for a minor origin difference. Infinity Ultron Captain Marvel does not have that same level of evidence.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The only thing that changed in Infinite Ultron's Episode was him getting Vision's Body. Aside from the weird Infinity Stone Inconsistency from Thanos, nothing about the past events before Age of Ultron changed which is the whole point of What If.

Just to reiterate.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Just to reiterate.

Other universes have differences despite the core concept being one event leading to something else.

The Avengers dying have slightly tweaked stuff for everyone as does Gladiator Iron Man/Gamora.

Scaling is currently one way. To scale both ways you need evidence saying that they should be comparable. Saying "Well they look the same" is not evidence, or else we should just scale Party Thor to the main Thor since they're visually identical.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Scaling is currently one way. To scale both ways you need evidence saying that they should be comparable. Saying "Well they look the same" is not evidence, or else we should just scale Party Thor to the main Thor since they're visually identical.

Party Thor does things that don't make sense for his time considering he should only be High 6-C

However, Captain Marvel doesn't do anything within a range of consistency or below an upper limit that she struggled to output that makes 6-B seem weird

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Admittedly, the feat is crazy, but it's also not extremely contradicted by any strings attached to canon Captain Marvel

 

[Qawsedf234]

ut it's also not super contradicted by any strings attached to canon Captain Marvel

Its also not backed by anything. Which is the requirement for two way scaling.

I'm mostly sure that its not wild for canon Carol to replicate the feat. But we don't have evidence that she can or that Episode 8 Carol is identical to the canon version. All we have is she looks the same, which just isn't evidence really.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

The whole point of What If is the whole standard MCU timeline is the exactly the same, up until the nexus event occurs aka what the episode is about.

This is said by the Watcher himself iirc, so logically CM should be the same up until AoU.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The whole point of What If is the whole standard MCU timeline is the exactly the same, up until the nexus event occurs aka what the episode is about.

But we know by evidence within the episodes themselves that there are plenty of changes that aren't just the one key event. There's minor stuff that's altered as well. In Episode 8 alone we have Zola still being around along with Thanos having gems he logically has no reason to have. Meaning plenty of things are different in that universe besides Ultron.

Not to mention future material has contradicted What If. Like how alternate versions of characters cannot remain in different universes without causing damage to that reality. Which doesn't work for Episode 8 Black Widow's ending.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Not to mention future material has contradicted What If. Like how alternate versions of characters cannot remain in different universes without causing damage to that reality. Which doesn't work for Episode 8 Black Widow's ending.

Wasn't that stated in NWH???? or was it MoM

 

[Qawsedf234]

MoM. NWH was that since there's an infinite amount of universes, there is therefore an infinite amount of people that know that Spider-Man is Peter Parker. Having an infinite number of anything be sucked into one world is bad for that universe.

 

[DuDE01010]

Not to mention future material has contradicted What If. Like how alternate versions of characters cannot remain in different universes without causing damage to that reality. Which doesn't work for Episode 8 Black Widow's ending.

Correct me if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure this only happens because of Dreamwalking. Alternate versions of characters staying in different universes doesn't cause any damage. Dr Strange was in the 838 and nothing happened. Raimiverse and Webbverse stayed in the MCU and nothing happened. America Chavez is now a permanent resident in the MCU and nothing has happened. So Widow remaining in another universe doesn't contradict it.

 

[KLOL506]

I'm neutral on this TBH. I'd much prefer if there is evidence connecting the two instead of just "They're the same character up until a Nexus point". That's just one part of the evidence.

 

[Excellence616]

Okay with the upgrades

 

[Lacku]

What If follows different timelines of events that happened in the MCU, which typically only affects a specific part of it and not much else, you can't seriously tell me that the creators of the show included Captain Marvel but intended for her to be a somehow different and stronger version of her normal self, even whenever she isn't the focus of the episode she's in, insane reaching imo.

I agree with everything.

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

What If follows different timelines of events that happened in the MCU, which typically only affect a specific part of it and not much else, you can't seriously tell me that the creators of the show included Captain Marvel but intended for her to be a somehow different and stronger version of her normal self, even whenever she isn't the focus of the episode she's in, insane reaching imo.

I agree with everything.

If we use What If...? scaling, should Carol get a varied tier since she rarely uses her full power in fear that it cause more destruction than needed. Casual Carol can fight on par with Pre-Awakened Thor and has statement saying that she could one shot him at full power