Upgrade for Chara

[KingPin0422]

Hello everyone.

After some thinking, I believe that Chara may in fact be 2-A.

For why I think this is the case, we ought to consider this line:

"HP. LV. ATK. DEF. EXP. GOLD. Every time a number increases, that feeling... that's me."

How do I know that these aren't limited to just Frisk and the Anomaly?

Well, HP, ATK, and DEF are obvious. Monsters have them. GOLD is fairly obvious too, the Monsters use it as their currency.

As for LV and EXP... well, I think it's worth mentioning that Sans, someone who has shown no experience with Determination (outside of knowledge about the timelines and all that) and likely lacks it altogether given the nature of Monsters, would know about LV and EXP, yet Flowey, someone who has had control over the Underground for the longest time because of their Determination, makes no mention to those things outside of the "LV 9999" thing.

If a Monster knows that LV and EXP exist, then it has to follow logically that Monsters have those as well.

After all, they measure the pain one has caused, their capacity to cause that pain, and their capacity to resist pain.

Basically, LV and EXP are the driving forces behind the rest of the stats. And Chara embodies the drive to increase these stats (EXP) and the stats themselves (LV).

This includes even Asriel's infinite stats, hence 2-A.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Chara is canonically inferior to Asriel though, and Flowey for that matter.

 

[Megamangohan]

I think the monsters can be aware of LV's AND have LV themselves, but Chara only embodies Frisk's LV

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Asriel is 2-A via scaling to Flowey and Chara, and the former is 2-B via scaling to Chara. This is going to create a loop in reasoning.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Asriel is 2-A due to being infinitly above a 2-B.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

And said 2-Bs are Flowey and Chara respectively. Unless you can pull a Tier 2 feat from Flowey, then Chara stays at 2-B even if this upgraded was to be accepted.

 

[SITHISIT]

Chara is canonically inferior to Asriel though, and Flowey for that matter.

lmfao wut

if its about flowey saying that if he got 7 souls he'd be stronger than chara

flowey didnt even know how strong chara was at that point, later he was ******* terrified of them and said he didnt want to do the plan he made up in the ruins anymore, out of complete fear and knowing no matter what he did he couldnt stop chara.

also even if that were true, he was saying that it would be a better and stronger idea than chara's original plan if

 

[KingPin0422]

@Saikou

You're forgetting that Flowey was able to destroy the game, which we consider 2-B as there are countless (but still finitely many) timelines due to his resets.

 

[KingPin0422]

Also, as Sith said, Flowey didn't really know Chara's true power, and quickly realized that there was nothing he could do to stop Chara.

Maybe Photoshop Flowey is > LV20 Chara, but Absolute Chara is clearly depicted as an abstract entity who feeds off of killing intent, which Photoshop Flowey had a lot of, and so did Asriel to an extent.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Except that Flowey never wanted to stop Chara. That's not a valid argument. In fact, Flowey never once react to Chara's power growth. The only things that bothered him is Chara turning on him.

 

[SITHISIT]

if he knew he could take them easily he would've done it.

and at the end he was so scared of Chara he started to plead "please don't kill me..." in his asriel voice.

he only killed asgore because he was on the brink of death and he wanted to make chara think he was on their side and not get killed.

tl;dr he was ******* terrified of them and knew that he stood no chance no matter what

 

[KingPin0422]

Still, if Flowey was worried that Chara would kill him, then logically Chara's power had to have been well beyond what he could ever achieve.

Asriel is obviously out of the question, but the last thing we see happen before Absolute Chara is Flowey begging Asgore to absorb the six Human SOULs.

Flowey does state on a neutral run that he was never able to get past Asgore, so Asgore has to be stronger than Flowey.

And of course, a Monster with Human SOULs is considered incredibly powerful, and Flowey is not a Monster.

As I stated before, Absolute Chara is a conceptual being that thrives off of others' violence.

If Photoshop Flowey is supposedly superior to Absolute Chara, then why would Flowey need seven SOULs when he could easily crush all of humanity with just six?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

No? Flowey was good old shitty 7-C Flowey back then. He had no way to access his 2-B form in the near future. Chara being far superior to 7-C Flowey doesn't prove anything regarding Photoshop form.

Because he needed to break the Barrier, which needs 7 SOULs.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Still, if Flowey was worried that Chara would kill him, then logically Chara's power had to have been well beyond what he could ever achieve.

Asriel is obviously out of the question, but the last thing we see happen before Absolute Chara is Flowey begging Asgore to absorb the six Human SOULs.

Flowey does state on a neutral run that he was never able to get past Asgore, so Asgore has to be stronger than Flowey.

And of course, a Monster with Human SOULs is considered incredibly powerful, and Flowey is not a Monster.

As I stated before, Absolute Chara is a conceptual being that thrives off of others' violence.

If Photoshop Flowey is supposedly superior to Absolute Chara, then why would Flowey need seven SOULs when he could easily crush all of humanity with just six?

The reason why Flowey was worried was because he needed Asgore to bring out the human souls meaning he couldn't reach his Photoshop Flowey.

His goal was never to crush humanity. His goal as Flowey was to become a god and he can't do that with only six souls. Also he can't crush humanity with just six as he can't break the barrier with just six.

 

[KingPin0422]

Well technically, if Photoshop Flowey went and absorbed a Monster SOUL then he could cross the barrier and leave everyone else to rot away in the Underground. Remember, Flowey doesn't care very much about anyone.

And, well, Flowey really wanted to enforce his "kill or be killed" philosophy on everyone.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

His self-admitted goal is to release the monsters on the surface so he could let them see how humanity is really like.

 

[KingPin0422]

...Huh.

I must have missed that somehow.

But technically, I wasn't asking about Absolute Chara being just stronger than Photoshop Flowey. I was asking about Absolute Chara being the very essence of stats in Undertale.

As I said in the OP, Chara mentions that they are the feeling one gets when they get stronger.

"HP. LV. ATK. DEF. EXP. GOLD. Every time a number increases, that feeling... that's me."

Everyone seems to have these stats, humans and monsters alike.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Chara seems to imply that they're the feeling one feels when a stat increases, not incarnating stats themselves. It doesn't make them above Asriel simply due to this. Hell, you said it yourself: They are the feeling of getting stronger, not "the very essence of stats".

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Chara seems to imply that they're the feeling one feels when a stat increases, not incarnating stats themselves. It doesn't make them above Asriel simply due to this. Hell, you said it yourself: They are the feeling of getting stronger, not "the very essence of stats".

Finally, someone else says it.