Unsong: New High 7-C+ End

[Agnaa]

A calculation for Uriel's mountain-lifting feat was accepted, but now that I look at it, I'm not sure that everyone who currently scales to that feat should. Unlike his laughter, this seems to have been done through telekinesis (he waved his hand, then the mountain was lifted), so it wouldn't scale to his SS/Dura. Thamiel scales by being on a completely different level from archangels like Uriel, but that'd still only scale to telekinesis. He has the "Telekinesis Users" category, but I can't find a Telekinesis ability in his P&A. Neil Armstrong scales to being equal to Thamiel, but seems to lack telekinesis entirely, so idk how that'd play out. The Comet King scales from attacking Thamiel, but since this calc doesn't scale to Dura, I don't think it'd end up on Comet King's page.

What should we doooooooo?

 

[Cat275]

Following.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Jibz]

The telekinesis is via kabbilism right? Then those with > Kabailism should get it right? Havent read the series in a while.

 

[Agnaa]

There's no indication of what it's done through. Could be angelic powers or celestial kabbalah.

 

[Jibz]

Aight, Neil shouldn’t get it at all. For comet king, ill have to ask, is his kabbalah at the same level as Uriel’s? If so im fine with him getting a possibly rating. Nobody should have this scale to their durab.

Thamiel scales by being on a completely different level from archangels like Uriel, but that'd still only scale to telekinesis.

Could you clarify this?

 

[Agnaa]

For comet king, ill have to ask, is his kabbalah at the same level as Uriel’s?

Comet King only has Applied Kabbalah, which this doesn't seem to be. Uriel and Sohu are the only characters with Celestial Kabbalah, but Sohu never reached Uriel's level with it iirc.

Could you clarify this?

Full disclosure: I had barely anything to do with any of the characters above tier 8; they were made by Ultima, so this is just my best guess. I'm not even sure if 7-C should change after this thread, since the only calc linked for it is a different one being applied to this feat. Here's everything I have related to Thamiel and archangels such as Uriel from my notes.

• Uriel regularly kills Thamiel.
  • This is done through the use of divine light, not Uriel's ordinary power.
    • Divine light may only be required to null Thamiel's angelic instant-resurrection; this is unclear from the text.
• A long time ago there was a war in heaven where the archangels fought Thamiel, but Thamiel won.
  • Uriel never directly fought in this.
    • Uriel is stated to be very very weak, and less skilled in combat than even lower-ranking archangels.
  • Thamiel beat the angels by employing strategems, and when the angels tried to learn similar strategems, they became fallen and would join Thamiel's side.
  • Also, Thamiel's bident could nullify angelic resurrection, while the angels couldn't do anything similar to Thamiel and his army.
    • When he does this, the angel's spirit also turns into a horde of monsters, which fight on Thamiel's side.
  • Also, Thamiel was always unable to be permanently killed due to being a facet of God.

Hm, I may need to try calling Ultima into this thread again.

 

[Jibz]

Yeah it’s probably for the best. So its safe to say Comet King and Neil don’t scale (right?). Thamiel is murky waters for me because ive barely seen him in the story so far, so ill leave that up to you and Ultima.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

What should we doooooooo?

Well, from a quick look at this, that'd depend on whether we consider Telekinesis feats to be combat-applicable ones (I ask because I distinctly recall seeing multiple dissenting opinions on that matter, and as of now, I don't have much of a solid precedent for this sort of feat), and how we interpret a few things in-story. For reference, here's what I'm talking about:

Chapter 20: When The Stars Threw Down Their Spears

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations for theoretical computer science? — kingjamesprogramming.tumblr.com 3??? BC Heaven I. Beyond the nimbus and stratus, in the furthest reaches of the heavens, the parliament of the angels convened in the eye of … Continue reading →

unsongbook.com

Had he always known it would come to this? No, in the days before Thamiel, the good days, none of them would ever have imagined hurting another angel. Now things were different. Everything had grown horrible. In a way, this was the worst. Aside from the goodness of God, the one constant was that Uriel would be irrelevant, always off in the corner staring into space working on some weird problem. Now Uriel’s very irrelevancy had been twisted into some kind of horrible, evil version of itself.

But one welcome truth had not changed: Uriel was weak. Very, very weak. Less skilled in combat even than Raphael. It was time to end this.

“Gabriel,” said Uriel. “I am channeling the divine light. Do you know what that means? It means I control it. All of it. Go away, Gabriel. Don’t make me hurt you.”

Uriel? Hurt anybody? Gabriel lunged forward, and…

So, as the last tidbit says, Gabriel doesn't just acknowledge that Uriel is weaker than the other Archangels, but that he cannot picture Uriel hurting any of them to begin with. You could take this quote in a few ways: Either he is saying Uriel is so weak that he genuinely can't do any harm to the other Archangels, or Uriel is too much of a weak-willed wimp to bring himself to hurt anyone.

The first paragraph seems to suggest the latter, from a glance, but it should be noted that this whole exchange happened after Gabriel found out about Uriel's plans to reestructure the universe and turn all supernatural beings into metaphors (Which, as we see a bit later on in the same chapter, is something Gabriel sees as being just death), so that interpretation seems a bit strange, and the first is thus a potentially valid one. If we take it as such, then the other Archangels would scale to Uriel's Telekinesis, given Gabriel actually saw him lifting up that mountain moments earlier and was neither impressed nor convinced against his idea that Uriel couldn't hurt him in combat.

And of course, that's if we even treat Telekinesis feats as Combat Applicable. If the answer is "No," then the whole thing above is null.

I'm neutral on that matter, personally, so, I'd like to see your thoughts.

 

[Agnaa]

I'd say that telekinesis is combat-applicable.

I think that Gabriel finding out Uriel's plans actually makes that second interpretation more likely. Gabriel's struggling with the dissonance; he doesn't see Uriel as someone who would hurt anybody, but that idea's being challenged right now. I think the "Uriel was weak. Very, very weak." part is the most important one for scaling, here.

Although my chief concern is whether Thamiel physically scales to the archangels, or if he beat them through hax/immortality.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump?

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump (._.)

 

[Agnaa]

Bump ;_;

 

[PrinceofPein]

If the TK is combat applicable, why does it need to be removed as a AP and Dura feat?

 

[Agnaa]

Because it's a different form of combat than physical strikes, meaning it would need to be listed separately in AP, and not be included in SS/Dura.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Well I agree then
It’s been years since I read Unsong I can’t remember much

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I’d scale it to no one outside the dude who did the feat due to all the jank involved in it

 

[Agnaa]

Bump?

 

[Agnaa]

Bump!