UnOrdinary Full AP & Speed Revision

[Cimafranca133]

UnOrdinary Full Revision​

Part I: Attack Potency/Durability and Power/Defense Stat
After a while of thinking, I have come to the conclusion that using the power stat in UnOrdinary is inaccurate many reasons. For starters, any character who's defense stat is lower than their attack stat can't use their defense stat to scale their durability. This is because a characters defense stat needs to be equal to their attack stat otherwise they wouldn't be able to resist their own attack and their body would blow up. This essentially means characters makes characters like Pre-Vigilantism Blyke seem stronger than Remi. Another reason is that, there have been a lot of inconsistencies with their power stats. For some examples; Blyke and Isen being able to tank each others attack, John's Wind Blades not being able to damage Arlo w/o Barrier and many more. Lastly, the stats in UnOrdinary are stated by Uru-Chan to be for audience only.
I think we should instead simply scale all the characters via feats they have done. For example, Isen and Pre-Vigilantism Blyke are able to fight equally thus Isen should scale to Blyke's Feat. Isen is easily defeated by Cecile thus Cecile > Isen = Blyke. According to the creator, Arlo can defeat Cecile without using his barrier so Arlo w/o Barrier > Cecile > Isen =
Note: 8-C characters are baseline and they upscale to Blyke's 9-A+ feat (0.207 tons of TNT).
Part II: Speed
As of now, their are only two calculated speed feats: Waldo dodging Electricity and Volcan dodging Electricity. Blyke was able to hit Volcan with his first Energy Beam thus he should have "at most Hypersonic attack speed". Sera's speed should be "Average Human, up to Hypersonic via Time Acceleration", since Uru-Chan stated that Sera can move as fast as any other person and she just warps time to make it seem like she's faster. (It was on a Q&A, check the UnO Wikia)
John can also dodge against Blyke Energy Beams with gives him at most Hypersonic reactions in his Base From (I know I already added this in his profile even tho it would be breaking the rules but hey... at least I'm honest.)
Part III: John AP Scaling
Base: 9-C (Broke Tanner's arm while grappling him. He once gave Hower a nose bleed while elbowing him. He gave Krolik a nose bleed with a strike. Sent a Joker Flying with a punch.), Varies (Since his ability is Power Mimicry)
With Copied Abilities: 9-A+, up to 8-C

• Fight with Arlo: At least 8-C (Upscales to Arlo who he defeated. Shattered Arlo's Barrier.)
• Fight with Zeke: 9-A+ (Upscales to Zeke is comparable but inferior to Isen)
• Fight with Juni: Unknown (Doesn't have any feats fighting any of the 9-A+/8-C characters)
• Fight with Isen: 8-C (Upscales to Isen who he easily defeated after copying his ability)
• Fight with Blyke: 8-C (Upscales to Blyke who he easily defeated)
• Fight with Royals: 8-C (Upscales to Arlo, Remi, Blyke and Isen)
• Fight with Safe House: 8-C (Upscales to Blyke who he easily defeated)
• Fight with Rowden Royals: 8-C (Upscales to Blyke)
• Fight with Spectre: At most 9-A+ (Should be massively weaker than before due to the dampener)
• Fight with Terrence: 8-C (Upscales to Bblyke and Isen)

Part IV: Main/Major/Minor Characters AP Scaling
Seraphina: At least 8-C (One-shot Arlo's Barrier)
Arlo: 8-C (at least 8-C dura with barrier) (Stated to be able to defeat Cecile w/o Barrier. His Barrier was unfazed by Reins attacks who had defeated Blyke)
Volcan: At least 8-C (Defeated Remi, Blyke an Isen. Tanked a full power attack from Rei)
Rei: 8-C (Should be superior to his sister Remi.)
Remi: 9-A+, likely 8-C (Should be comparable if not superior to Blyke)
Pre-Vigilantism Blyke: 9-A+ (Scales to his feat)
Post-Vigilantism Blyke: 9-A, likely 8-C (Possibly stronger than before.)
Isen: 9-A+ (Cmparable to Blyke)
Cecile: 9-A+, likely 8-C (Superior to Isen)
Zeke: 9-A+ (He was easily defeated by Isen however, that was likely more due to skill rather than strength since he claims to only be slightly weaker than Blyke.)
Terrence: Unknown (Has no strength feats) (at most 9-A+ dura due to being able to somewhat tank an attack from John)
Ventus: 9-B, at most 9-A+ (Scales to his feat. Fought John but was easily defeated)
Meili: 9-B, at most 9-A+ (Comparable to Ventus)
Abel: At least 9-C+, at most 9-A+ (Should be superior to mid-tiers. Fought John but was easily defeated.)
Gavin: 9-C, possibly 9-C+ (Scales to his feat. Broke John's arm.)
Kalum: 9-C (Scales to his feat)
Part V: John Speed Scaling
Base: Athletic Human with at most Hypersonic Reactions (Dodges Blyke's Laser Beam. Dodged two "missiles" from Houker. Dodges Crails Punch.), Varies (Since his ability is Power Mimicry)
With Copied Abilities: A least Subsonic, up to at most Hypersonic with Hypersonic Reactions and occasionally Attack Speed

• Fight with Arlo: At most Hypersonic (He should be slower than Arlo's Reactions)
• Fight with Zeke: At least Subsonic (Vastly faster than Zeke)
• Fight with Juni: Subsonic (He can create a blur)
• Fight with Isen: At least Subsonic, likely higher (Should be faster than Isen)
• Fight with Blyke: Unknown, at most Hypersonic Attack Speed (His energy beams should be faster than Blyke's)
• Fight with Royals: At most Hypersonic Movement and Attack Speed
• Fight with Safe House: At least Subsonic, at most Hypersonic Attack Speed
• Fight with Rowden Royals: At least Subsonic, at most Hypersonic Attack Speed
• Fight with Spectre: Unknown, at most Hypersonic Attack Speed
• Fight with Terrence: At least Subsonic, at most Hypersonic Attack Speed
• Note: All keys above also have at most/Hypersonic attack speed

Part VI: Main/Major/Minor Characters Speed Scaling
Seraphina: Average Human, up to at least Hypersonic with Time Acceleration (Uru-Chan stated that Sera can move as fast as any other person and she just warps time to make it seem like she's faster.)
Arlo: Athletic Human (Outran a group of spectre thugs), at most Hypersonic Reactions and Attack Speed (He has activated his ability faster than John could hit him in multiple occasions.)
Volcan: Hypersonic (Dodged Remi's Electricity)
Rei: At most Hypersonic (Inferior to Volcan)
Remi: At least Subsonic (Should be faster than Waldo), Supersonic attack speed (Her electricity powers should be this fast.)
Pre-Vigilantism Blyke: Unknown, at most Hypersonic Attack Speed (Hit Volcan with the first laser beam he shot.)
Post-Vigilantism Blyke: Subsonic, at most Hypersonic Attack Speed (Hit Volcan with the first laser beam he shot.)
Isen: At least Subsonic (Should be faster than Zeke)
Cecile: At least Subsonic, likely higher (She was able to capture Isen before he could react.)
Zeke: Subsonic (He can create afterimages)
Terrence: Athletic Human (Outran John)
Ventus: Unknown
Meili: Unknown
Abel: Unknown
Gavin: Athletic Human (Outran John)
Kalum: Unknown

 

[Moritzva]

I don't think the first point is too important, given that plenty of verses tend to ignore concepts like an equal and opposite reaction.

Speed seems fine.

Iffy on John's AP. I just woke up and I haven't read the series in a good while, but I'm not sure if putting his base AP that low is accurate when plenty of abilities don't directly augment his AP in a significant manner. Furthermore, he always seemed to be able to strike just about anyone with great force.

John's speed seems fine.

Speed and AP scaling otherwise, I'd have to be told what the current scaling is to know what we're actually changing.

 

[Cimafranca133]

I don't think the first point is too important, given that plenty of verses tend to ignore concepts like an equal and opposite reaction.

Speed seems fine.

Iffy on John's AP. I just woke up and I haven't read the series in a good while, but I'm not sure if putting his base AP that low is accurate when plenty of abilities don't directly augment his AP in a significant manner. Furthermore, he always seemed to be able to strike just about anyone with great force.

John's speed seems fine.

Speed and AP scaling otherwise, I'd have to be told what the current scaling is to know what we're actually changing.

The current scaling being used is using the attack stat of the UnOrdinary Verse as scaling for AP

 

[Moritzva]

Why is anything wrong with that or speed?

 

[Cimafranca133]

Why is anything wrong with that?

It's pretty inaccurate due to:

• Some characters are able to fight each other equally such as Blyke and Isen.
• Defense Stat is useless since any character who's defense stat is lower than their attack stat can't use their defense stat to scale their durability.
• Due to the second reason, characters like Pre-Vigilantism Blyke are stronger than Cecile when he shouldn't be.
• The stats in UnOrdinary are stated by Uru-Chan to be for audience only.

Why is anything wrong speed?

The speed stat also has a few inconsistencies but not as much as the attack stat.

 

[Cimafranca133]

Bump

 

[Arceus0x]

seems legit

 

[Dalesean027]

Still waiting for the discussion between @Moritzva and you to finish

 

[Moritzva]

It's pretty inaccurate due to:

• Some characters are able to fight each other equally such as Blyke and Isen.
• Defense Stat is useless since any character who's defense stat is lower than their attack stat can't use their defense stat to scale their durability.
• Due to the second reason, characters like Pre-Vigilantism Blyke are stronger than Cecile when he shouldn't be.
• The stats in UnOrdinary are stated by Uru-Chan to be for audience only.

The speed stat also has a few inconsistencies but not as much as the attack stat.

This is a reasonable argument, but could you elaborate more on why the defense stat can't scale to durability?

 

[Cimafranca133]

This is a reasonable argument, but could you elaborate more on why the defense stat can't scale to durability?

Ant told me that it wouldn't make sense since they're bodies would explode if they have wall level dura while having 9-A+ AP. He also said that it would confuse casual viewers of the site.

 

[Moritzva]

Ant told me that it wouldn't make sense since they're bodies would explode if they have wall level dura while having 9-A+ AP. He also said that it would confuse casual viewers of the site.

Yeah, I get that as an idea, but glass cannons exist and fiction oftentimes ignores such ideas. You simply don’t see it often since scaling throws away those ideas most of the time. Surely there’s an example of a lower defense student tanking at least one or two hits from a higher attack one?

 

[Cimafranca133]

Yeah, I get that as an idea, but glass cannons exist and fiction oftentimes ignores such ideas. You simply don’t see it often since scaling throws away those ideas most of the time. Surely there’s an example of a lower defense student tanking at least one or two hits from a higher attack one?

There's Isen (5) (somewhat) tanking Blyke's Attack (8) in Ep. 1-2.
Arlo's Barrier (9) tanking John's Energy Beam (12).
Isen (5) tanking John's Explosion (6).
Zeke (1) tanking Isen's Punch (5).
John (1) tanking Abel's Explosion (4).
Terrence (4) tanking John's Homing Beam (12).
There's probably more but these are the ones I can think on top of my head.

 

[DuDE01010]

Any reason why speed of electricity is used instead of lightning? Rei and Remi can both paralyse people and Rei used cloud to ground lightning in ep 280.

 

[Cimafranca133]

Any reason why speed of electricity is used instead of lightning? Rei and Remi can both paralyse people and Rei used cloud to ground lightning in ep 280.

It was an outlier apparently. Also, the calcs were made before Ep. 280.

 

[DuDE01010]

It was an outlier apparently. Also, the calcs were made before Ep. 280.

Are there any anti feats to suggest those that scale to Rei can't be massively hypersonic?

MHS should be used unless a counter argument is provided.

 

[Cimafranca133]

Are there any anti feats to suggest those that scale to Rei can't be massively hypersonic?

MHS should be used unless a counter argument is provided.

Rei i guess but Remi absolutely not... she couldn't even outrun a speeding motorcycle (unless said motorcycle MHS). Now I think Remi being subsonic might be an outlier...

 

[DuDE01010]

Rei i guess but Remi absolutely not... she couldn't even outrun a speeding motorcycle (unless said motorcycle MHS). Now I think Remi being subsonic might be an outlier...

That's travel speed not her attack speed, which is what her lightning attacks count as. Her lightning caught up and immobilized everyone on the bike within a single frame.

 

[Cimafranca133]

That's travel speed not her attack speed, which is what her lightning attacks count as. Her lightning caught up and immobilized everyone on the bike within a single frame.

That still opens a hole bag of worm. For example, the Waldo calc uses speed of electricity. If speed of lightning was used in the clac then Waldo and by extension Remi would be MHS.

 

[DuDE01010]

That still opens a hole bag of worm. For example, the Waldo calc uses speed of electricity. If speed of lightning was used in the clac then Waldo and by extension Remi would be MHS.

Waldo's an elite tier. He has no prior feats and therefore no anti feats. Don't see why it would be an outlier.

 

[Cimafranca133]

Waldo's an elite tier. He has no prior feats and therefore no anti feats. Don't see why it would be an outlier.

(Forgot about this)
Anyways, I don't know what you're talking about. Remi explicitly says that Waldo is to slow.

 

[ElajRuengies]

Rei i guess but Remi absolutely not... she couldn't even outrun a speeding motorcycle (unless said motorcycle MHS). Now I think Remi being subsonic might be an outlier...

...On a similar topic.

I've been meaning to bring this up for a while but, the High/God Tier scaling to Blyke's energy beam calc has a couple of issues... (No, I'm not gonna say that concrete pulverization should be used instead of rock pulv'ing)

1. First and foremost- Blyke did that with a charged attack- specifically his Kamehameha-esq one which has a start up time, unlike his smaller blasts which Gou was tanking) or finger-lasers which he can fire off quickly, so the fact that every single one of his attacks is scaled to a feat he did with a charged move, and then a bunch of characters are scaled-to, upscaled-from, or down-scaled from that value, is a bit of a problem.

(Obviously John w/ Energy Discharge would still have a value which upscales from Blyke's charged attack crater, but even then, it shouldn't apply to every single one of John's attacks either)

2. Secondly, and more controversially... The feat is probably an outlier.

Now, I hate hate hate using that word, but... @Climafranca- you should know considering how many UnOrdinary calc's you've done- so I'm talking one Feat-Finder to another- in the six years and 250+ chapters since Chapter 14 came out, there's been nothing that comes close to eight cubic meters of volume (think a cube-shaped hole in the ground longer, wider, and deeper than a person) being fragmented in UnOrdinary, let alone pulverized.

Craters in the ground and holes in the wall are consistently with chunks of material around them, and are like, the depth/thickness of the characters' shins or wrists at most. And those feats were performed by God Tiers like John in his Royal's Fight.

The only other thing that could be high Small Building level+ / Building level was when Blyke was being worried when John was preparing the charged-beam attack at the Safe House, and was like "is he trying to blow this whole place up?!", and even then that was probably just referring to the Safe House Classroom, not the actual building considering how the resulting explosion from John and Blyke's energy clash has already been calced at just 21.47 Megajoules / 5.132 kg of TNT.

Lastly, while the length and width of the half cylinder are gotten via regular pixel scaling (25.5 and 58.7 cm- not that different from most other craters in UnOrdinary), the length (of 17 meters) is gotten via angsizing, and the full length is never seen in a normal perspective shot. Although this is a nitpick that can honestly be ignored since even using the minimum 9 meters still puts the crater way bigger than any other feat in UnOrdinary.

The stats in my opinion are actually a good-enough rule of thumb for AP (while Blyke's AP is way higher than his Defense, he attacks using lasers so it's not like his physicality needs to be able to handle the finger damage from having punches that strong), it's just that the current AP values assigned to them due to scaling to Blyke's feat make the power gaps between numbers way bigger than they are in-Universe.

 

[Cimafranca133]

...On a similar topic.

I've been meaning to bring this up for a while but, the High/God Tier scaling to Blyke's energy beam calc has a couple of issues... (No, I'm not gonna say that concrete pulverization should be used instead of rock pulv'ing)

1. First and foremost- Blyke did that with a charged attack- specifically his Kamehameha-esq one which has a start up time, unlike his smaller blasts which Gou was tanking) or finger-lasers which he can fire off quickly, so the fact that every single one of his attacks is scaled to a feat he did with a charged move, and then a bunch of characters are scaled-to, upscaled-from, or down-scaled from that value, is a bit of a problem.

(Obviously John w/ Energy Discharge would still have a value which upscales from Blyke's charged attack crater, but even then, it shouldn't apply to every single one of John's attacks either)

2. Secondly, and more controversially... The feat is probably an outlier.

Now, I hate hate hate using that word, but... @Climafranca- you should know considering how many UnOrdinary calc's you've done- so I'm talking one Feat-Finder to another- in the six years and 250+ chapters since Chapter 14 came out, there's been nothing that comes close to eight cubic meters of volume (think a cube-shaped hole in the ground longer, wider, and deeper than a person) being fragmented in UnOrdinary, let alone pulverized.

Craters in the ground and holes in the wall are consistently with chunks of material around them, and are like, the depth/thickness of the characters' shins or wrists at most. And those feats were performed by God Tiers like John in his Royal's Fight.

The only other thing that could be high Small Building level+ / Building level was when Blyke was being worried when John was preparing the charged-beam attack at the Safe House, and was like "is he trying to blow this whole place up?!", and even then that was probably just referring to the Safe House Classroom, not the actual building considering how the resulting explosion from John and Blyke's energy clash has already been calced at just 21.47 Megajoules / 5.132 kg of TNT.

Lastly, while the length and width of the half cylinder are gotten via regular pixel scaling (25.5 and 58.7 cm- not that different from most other craters in UnOrdinary), the length (of 17 meters) is gotten via angsizing, and the full length is never seen in a normal perspective shot. Although this is a nitpick that can honestly be ignored since even using the minimum 9 meters still puts the crater way bigger than any other feat in UnOrdinary.

The stats in my opinion are actually a good-enough rule of thumb for AP (while Blyke's AP is way higher than his Defense, he attacks using lasers so it's not like his physicality needs to be able to handle the finger damage from having punches that strong), it's just that the current AP values assigned to them due to scaling to Blyke's feat make the power gaps between numbers way bigger than they are in-Universe.

Honestly, I actually agree with this. I was originally going to make an UnOrdinary Downgrade CRT, if it wasn't for Episode 280.
In this episode, a severely weakened Rei performs what looks like cloud to ground lightning (9-A+). However, Volcan and her partner hardly took any damage from it. In addition, Blyke was able to pierce Volcan with one of his laser beams. This means Weakened Rei << Volcan <= Blyke Laser Beam.

Edit: Rei's Lightning was never shown to be cloud to ground.

 

[DuDE01010]

(Forgot about this)
Anyways, I don't know what you're talking about. Remi explicitly says that Waldo is to slow.

Being described as slow is relative. A FTL character can describe a LS character as slow, doesn't mean anything.

Waldo has zero antifeats and dodged Remi's lightning. He scales to whatever that calc comes out to and Remi scales above it due to calling him slow.

 

[Cimafranca133]

Being described as slow is relative. A FTL character can describe a LS character as slow, doesn't mean anything.

Waldo has zero antifeats and dodged Remi's lightning. He scales to whatever that calc comes out to and Remi scales above it due to calling him slow.

What do you mean by that?

Remi couldn't outrun a speeding motorcycle and Remi called Waldo slow.

If Waldo was MHS then Remi is at least MHS which doesn't make sense since Remi couldn't outrun a speeding motorcycle.

Not to mention, Rei's Lightning might not even be cloud to ground.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Being described as slow is relative. A FTL character can describe a LS character as slow, doesn't mean anything.

Waldo has zero antifeats and dodged Remi's lightning. He scales to whatever that calc comes out to and Remi scales above it due to calling him slow.

What do you mean by that?

Remi couldn't outrun a speeding motorcycle and Remi called Waldo slow.

If Waldo was MHS then Remi is at least MHS which doesn't make sense since Remi couldn't outrun a speeding motorcycle.

Not to mention, Rei's Lightning might not even be cloud to ground.

IMO, this could be a case where a character's movement speed is much slower than their reaction speed. Happens quite a lot in quite a large number of profiles from my own knowledge.

 

[DuDE01010]

What do you mean by that?

Remi couldn't outrun a speeding motorcycle and Remi called Waldo slow.

If Waldo was MHS then Remi is at least MHS which doesn't make sense since Remi couldn't outrun a speeding motorcycle.

Not to mention, Rei's Lightning might not even be cloud to ground.

I've already explained travel speed =/= combat, attack and reaction speeds. Not being able to out run a motorcycle means nothing in this context.

Remi calling Waldo slow means he's just slower than Remi. Waldo is still faster than lightning as shown.

Rei's lightning came from above which is how cloud to ground lighting is shown.

 

[DuDE01010]

IMO, this could be a case where a character's movement speed is much slower than their reaction speed. Happens quite a lot in quite a large number of profiles from my own knowledge.

Exactly. There's many characters who have ridiculous combat and reaction speeds compared to their travel.

 

[Cimafranca133]

I've already explained travel speed =/= combat, attack and reaction speeds. Not being able to out run a motorcycle means nothing in this context.

Remi calling Waldo slow means he's just slower than Remi. Waldo is still faster than lightning as shown.

Apologies, I thought you were talking about travel speed.

Rei's lightning came from above which is how cloud to ground lighting is shown.

True, but it was never shown to be from clouds. Imma ask a calc group member if it can be considered as lightning.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Well, does Rei's lightning have any statements or implications in-canon that say it is comparable to real cloud-to-ground lightning? If it doesn't it'll likely not make the cut to be considered as real lightning, imo.