Universal Energy System Standards

[KingTempest]

Bump of heaven and earth

I guess we can make anotehr thread to draft the "New Energy System"?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We already agreed with the name change of the page to just "Energy Systems," as for the rest, I don't want to copy/paste things I've already said here. But I'm in the mentality to reorganize descriptions in Outline/Bullet Point format rather than Essay format as it's more simple and easier to read. And hopefully, it can make people easier to understand regardless of LES, UES, or anywhere in between the existence of Final techniques that use up most if not all of the entire energy within any given system as opposed to using moderated amounts for regular/casual techniques isn't a contention against. Or even just the existence of next Level 2 spells/techniques using up a bit more than Level 1 spells/techniques.

 

[Firestorm808]

Calling it "Energy Systems" seems fine.

I personally don't ascribe to the "energy attacks of the same type have the same potency by default." IE: AP of a novice vs a master fighter.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

bump

 

[Makai641001]

Good afternoon everybody.

I'm splitting my evening in half to talk about how bad our UES page is and why it needs to be elaborated on, or at least have standards put in place for them, because there's a problem with our wiki's overindulgence in "making people scale to attacks they shouldn't scale to" based on "we use the same type of energy for both".

Now Look​

Here is our wiki page for the Energy Systems page.

Universal Energy Systems

Universal Energy Systems are a fairly common element in fictional stories possessed by certain characters to display incredible feats and powers, often being born out of fantastical or otherwise otherworldly elements such as Magic, Chakra, Chi and a myriad of other possible energy systems. Often...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Does anyone notice a problem?
I do.

It looks like the page is intending to explain "Energy Systems", but instead it looks like a page built for "try your hardest to get a UES, and here's what you need to do".
This is like calling the speed page the Speed of Light page because everyone tries to get characters to FTL.
It sucks.

On top of that, the issues with said UES is that very rarely in fiction do characters often utilize the same amount of a magical energy source in their physical attacks as they do with their magical ones.

Here is the explanation for a UES

Here is what you need to do to get one


Does nobody see the problem with this?
I'll say it.

The UES page makes it seem like all because you can utilize the same type of energy into your physical attacks, it automatically assumes that you can use the same amount of energy in them.
This is so... bad, and it makes room for people to scale to attacks that they need to charge up for 3 chapters in order to do.

I made a thread regarding one of our examples, Naruto and chakra, and in this thread I noticed that although there are times characters can input a lot of energy into their physical attacks, that takes a completely different energy of energy control to do so and it is extremely rare, and regarding magical attacks and spells and such, things such as the element the energy is transmuted into or even the shape can give a different level of strength.

We see showings of things like this in other verses. And I'm just going down the list of our "UES examples".

(Dragon Ball Z) Goku is canonically shown in Dragon Ball Z to occasionally parry and deflect energy blasts from his opponents, but his kamehameha in the first arc of DBZ has a power level 3 times his own, and it obliterates enemies he combats in his day to day.
(Bleach) Ichigo's regular slash vs a getsuga tensho.
(Yu Yu Hakusho) Yusuke's basic move, the spirit gun, channels the same energy that his body is fueled with, but it's twice as strong.

And these are just the examples that I know.
Yet all of these people use "the same energy as their attacks", and our standards give loopholes which mess up scaling wiki wide.
But using the same type of energy doesn't mean you're using the same amount.

Proposal​

Implement that in order to qualify for a UES, the fighter in question must make it known that they don't just put the same type of energy, but the same amount of energy.

If not this, then something else.

But we need stricter standards than "they use this energy to breathe, and they use this energy to punch, so their breaths and their punches use the same amount of energy.

Makes a lot of sense ngl

In order for a character to scale fully to his energy system related attacks There should be evidence about a large/even portion of it being channeled through the attack

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

any update

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody summarise which staff members that think what here and why please? I think that would greatly help with speeding things along.

 

[KLOL506]

Everyone agrees to the name change.

I think everyone here (Planck, FinePoint, DDM, Damage and maybe Vietthai?) also agrees to clarifying the already-accepted requirements.

DDM brought up some other points regarding some verses but at large I do not think they are related to the already-accepted-and-used criteria at hand, basic scaling notwithstanding.

Only Agnaa seemed to have issues with regards to how we judge what counts as fatigue and casual but I think that's already handled well by our case-by-case basis judging criteria so that's not relevant, plus Planck and FinePoint's counterarguments against Agnaa IMHO address it perfectly.

KT proposed a new energy system type in between NPES and UES to account for non-1:1 amps but it seems DDM disagrees.

This is still where we're at.