- 189
- 9
I was playing J-Stars Victory VS and came across Misogi and saw his ability and immediately thought about Bohemian Rhapsody, so yeah. Speed is equalized.
Is this the real life?
Is this the real life?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Ungalo vs Misogi Kumagawa. Turning Reality to Fiction against turning fiction to life.
- Thread starter Razerboy36
- Start date
-
- Tags
- misogi kumagawa ungalo
- 66
- 3
Kumagawa has powers beyond All Fiction, which to be honest is all he even needs to finish the fight. All Kumagawa has to do is talk to him and the fight is over, considering his nature and his extreme charisma and ability to piss off and mentally break anyone, and considering how mentally weak Ungalo is, the fight ends after just one conversation.
If were talking about sheer power than it goes to Kumagawa, physically Kumagawa is faster, more smart, stronger, combat expert, etc. All Fiction erases everything from existence, inlcuding concepts and things that dont technically exist. He could just erase fiction from reality which would negate Ungalos ability, or erase him from reality all together. He could erase his power from reality, he could erase jojos bizare adventures from reality, he could do any number of creative things to erase him from existence. But he doesnt even have to use that
He could just use Book Maker, and attack that deals no physical damage, but cant be blocked, stopped, or prevented. It seals the target infinitely and brings them "down" to Kumagawa's level on every front. Physically, intellectually, mentally, ability wise, etc, everything is dropped to Minus level.
In other words, Kumagawa uses Book Maker and Ungalo can no longer use Bohemian Rhapsody ever until Kumagawa lifts the seal. This can also be used on whatever character he creates, since BookMaker cant be blocked, stopped, undone, etc. so there is no counter.
If were talking about sheer power than it goes to Kumagawa, physically Kumagawa is faster, more smart, stronger, combat expert, etc. All Fiction erases everything from existence, inlcuding concepts and things that dont technically exist. He could just erase fiction from reality which would negate Ungalos ability, or erase him from reality all together. He could erase his power from reality, he could erase jojos bizare adventures from reality, he could do any number of creative things to erase him from existence. But he doesnt even have to use that
He could just use Book Maker, and attack that deals no physical damage, but cant be blocked, stopped, or prevented. It seals the target infinitely and brings them "down" to Kumagawa's level on every front. Physically, intellectually, mentally, ability wise, etc, everything is dropped to Minus level.
In other words, Kumagawa uses Book Maker and Ungalo can no longer use Bohemian Rhapsody ever until Kumagawa lifts the seal. This can also be used on whatever character he creates, since BookMaker cant be blocked, stopped, undone, etc. so there is no counter.
- 12,224
- 1,111
>he could erase jojos bizare adventures from reality,
And here it is, the biggest NLF of the week.
Congratulations.
And here it is, the biggest NLF of the week.
Congratulations.
- 66
- 3
It being an NLF does not make it untrue or illogical or false.
edit: what I said above is true in the case of this character, Kumagawa. I can prove that he can do this with an author's note from the manga.
edit: what I said above is true in the case of this character, Kumagawa. I can prove that he can do this with an author's note from the manga.
- 12,224
- 1,111
Then let me rephrase, thats blatantly false and wank. Especially when there's jojo characters that would steamroll Kumagowa.
- 66
- 3
It isn't false in the slightest since it can be proven with actual feats in the manga and even the author himself gave multiple descriptions of his powers which prove my point.
And Prove it. Bring out your strongest jojo character and I can almost gaurantee that they will lose
side note: it better not be Dio because then you're screwed.
edit: doesnt even address the rest of my argument and only points to the most insignificant point of argument I use. Him being able to erase manga from reality isnt even the basis of my claim that he could defeat Ungalo so i dont know why youre trying so hard to refute that point.
And Prove it. Bring out your strongest jojo character and I can almost gaurantee that they will lose
side note: it better not be Dio because then you're screwed.
edit: doesnt even address the rest of my argument and only points to the most insignificant point of argument I use. Him being able to erase manga from reality isnt even the basis of my claim that he could defeat Ungalo so i dont know why youre trying so hard to refute that point.
- 12,224
- 1,111
It's called wank dude.
And any concepts? Ya saying he can destroy the concept of life, the concept if time? Concept of mathematical dimensions, the concept of Aijuma. No, he can't.
If Your reasoning is it's shiwn no limit, neither Has Saitama, but hed get his ass kicked by plenty if things in the planet tier range no less.
He hasnt shown he can, he's straight up weaker than other characters in his verse, author statements tend to mean nothing and they dont factor in other verses. Plus the author is dead exists for a reason.
Also here, DIO? Well that's not entirely wrong
And any concepts? Ya saying he can destroy the concept of life, the concept if time? Concept of mathematical dimensions, the concept of Aijuma. No, he can't.
If Your reasoning is it's shiwn no limit, neither Has Saitama, but hed get his ass kicked by plenty if things in the planet tier range no less.
He hasnt shown he can, he's straight up weaker than other characters in his verse, author statements tend to mean nothing and they dont factor in other verses. Plus the author is dead exists for a reason.
Also here, DIO? Well that's not entirely wrong
- 12,224
- 1,111
Because that point is hilarious, and I can pick apart some of the rest to if ya want.
I dont even think Ungalo wins but it doesn't excuse hilariously flawed argument riddled with NLF and some wank at parts.
I dont even think Ungalo wins but it doesn't excuse hilariously flawed argument riddled with NLF and some wank at parts.
- 66
- 3
i never once stated that he could do those things simply because it hasnt been demonstrated that he cant not do those things. you are just assuming. I have said before that i can PROVE those things right with author's notes and official definitions of those powers from the author and other sources. I wont do it right now since this isnt the point or topic of the article, but I will gladly email or argue on another forum if you are willing to create one.
The fact that he can erase people and things from existence was not the base of my claim, read the whole comment and youll see. It was just an example of his power that cant be matched by Ungalo, that wasnt even a serious topic or point in my argument, i mentioned it breifly and continued with my argument.
And please come up with a character from JoJo that is stronger if you can.
The fact that he can erase people and things from existence was not the base of my claim, read the whole comment and youll see. It was just an example of his power that cant be matched by Ungalo, that wasnt even a serious topic or point in my argument, i mentioned it breifly and continued with my argument.
And please come up with a character from JoJo that is stronger if you can.
- 66
- 3
Also against Dio, literally Book Maker and the fight is done. Dio with Book Maker can not use any power or ability and is now just a normal human. Done.
edit: I will admit Dio is stronger than I thought however.
edit: I will admit Dio is stronger than I thought however.
- 12,224
- 1,111
>All Fiction erases everything from existence, inlcuding concepts and things that dont technically exist
Your exacts word, which is bullshit, ya saying he can destroy the concept of life, the concept of time? Concept of mathematical dimensions, the concept of Aijuma. No, he can't.
Message my wall then.
Dont care about that, kuma probably wins this casually, just saying why several of your points are false.
And i already provided one, click the link, i could provide a few more if ya wish.
Your exacts word, which is bullshit, ya saying he can destroy the concept of life, the concept of time? Concept of mathematical dimensions, the concept of Aijuma. No, he can't.
Message my wall then.
Dont care about that, kuma probably wins this casually, just saying why several of your points are false.
And i already provided one, click the link, i could provide a few more if ya wish.
- 12,224
- 1,111
Ya honestly think Dio is gonna be effected? The dude kinda already told universal causality manipulation and power negation to bite him.
Also you're missing the huge fact that DIO makes it do he never existed in. Any timeline or universes at every point in time at a speed no one in Medea box can hope to achieve.
Also you're missing the huge fact that DIO makes it do he never existed in. Any timeline or universes at every point in time at a speed no one in Medea box can hope to achieve.
- 189
- 9
- Thread starter
- #14
HA Dio could just punch himself, making him know all of his enemy's attacks and make himself immune to book maker.
- 12,224
- 1,111
Or ya know, he already has a massive resistance.
- 189
- 9
- Thread starter
- #16
I mean, if its out of character, then he can easily stop time infinitely, then punch Misogi infinitely, causing any harmful affect (2-A or below) in fiction to him + negating everything he can do.
- 189
- 9
- Thread starter
- #17
But back to the topic itself. EDIT: But before that, if Ungalo wasn't so stupid, he could ask Van Gogh to draw him a character who can beat any character or being that opposes him. (Van Gogh created Put Back who sucked up EVERY CHARACTER IN FICTION FROM 2011 and BEFORE, back into fiction)
- 12,224
- 1,111
No i mean Dio already laughs off causility manipulation and power negation.
He all ready has most of what Kuma can do resisted.
Also ignoring
>Kuma
>effecting a 2-A
>when High 3-A's and Low 2-C's are either soulscrewee by him after everything they did fail or worshipping him as God.
He all ready has most of what Kuma can do resisted.
Also ignoring
>Kuma
>effecting a 2-A
>when High 3-A's and Low 2-C's are either soulscrewee by him after everything they did fail or worshipping him as God.
- 189
- 9
- Thread starter
- #19
oh right. ger.
- 66
- 3
Book Maker cant be countered, once youve been tagged by Book Maker you cant get out of it. Dio cant move to another timeline where book maker was never used, because Book Maker puts you on the same front as Kumagawa. Book Maker makes you completely unable to use any power period, also can be proven. Book Maker affects everything, technique, experience, skill, powers, intellect, body, strength, mind, spirit, etc. Also proof in manga and from author.
The literal definition from the author (the short version) can not be false or falacy, it doesnt need to take into account other fictions since its a literal and simple definition, go ahead and look up the Power NonExistence and read about all of its capabilities. Also the short definition from the author is, "Allows him to deny aspects of reality; to make ANYTHING "nothing". Anything was in all caps in the manga, and also the fact that its coming from the author and taking into account kumagawas feats from the manga, this can be assumed to be true. Literally anything nothing.
edit: heres a link to Nonexistence (http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Nonexistence)
read every ability and capability of this power.
The literal definition from the author (the short version) can not be false or falacy, it doesnt need to take into account other fictions since its a literal and simple definition, go ahead and look up the Power NonExistence and read about all of its capabilities. Also the short definition from the author is, "Allows him to deny aspects of reality; to make ANYTHING "nothing". Anything was in all caps in the manga, and also the fact that its coming from the author and taking into account kumagawas feats from the manga, this can be assumed to be true. Literally anything nothing.
edit: heres a link to Nonexistence (http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Nonexistence)
read every ability and capability of this power.
- 66
- 3
I suppose thats true but i doubt someone would just sit there and watch their opponent draw a character on paper. Assuming the fight is bloodlusted and personality is irrelevant then id still give kumagawa the win.Razerboy36 said:
- 12,224
- 1,111
It can be countered when you're 2-A and have alreasy countered things above that, by simply willing it..youre liyterally using a NLF.
Yes, author is dead, if Araki tomorrow, says DIO can't be effected by any power ever written. Would it be true? No it wouldn't, TOAA,, Hajun, Demonbane say hi.
Also you're ignoring DIO has MFTL+-Infinite speed.
But how do I Know? Make Kumagawa Vs Heaven DIO thread then, not like Kuma ties with someone DIO shitstomps or was stomped by another JoJo character already. But actually make it, I implore ya if ya think im wrong, get some second opinions I guess.
Yes, author is dead, if Araki tomorrow, says DIO can't be effected by any power ever written. Would it be true? No it wouldn't, TOAA,, Hajun, Demonbane say hi.
Also you're ignoring DIO has MFTL+-Infinite speed.
But how do I Know? Make Kumagawa Vs Heaven DIO thread then, not like Kuma ties with someone DIO shitstomps or was stomped by another JoJo character already. But actually make it, I implore ya if ya think im wrong, get some second opinions I guess.
- 189
- 9
- Thread starter
- #23
also, one last thing, could Kumagawa erase some 1-A characters summoned by Bohemian
- 12,224
- 1,111
If we don't take verse equalization into account, Ungalo can summon Ajumu, since ya seem to imply Jojo is but a fiction he erase, the same wirks in reverse.
But thats not how this works.
But thats not how this works.
- 12,224
- 1,111
Okay, this. why Ungalo fights shouldn't be a thing, because of the classic
>summons Demonbane and TOAA.
No Kuma can't do shit to them and no Ungalo ain't summoning them.
>summons Demonbane and TOAA.
No Kuma can't do shit to them and no Ungalo ain't summoning them.
- 189
- 9
- Thread starter
- #26
Who's Ajumu again?
- 189
- 9
- Thread starter
- #27
and should I make a thread about Bohemian Rhapsody and its power to summon 1-As?(is this a NLF? I just thought it would work since it brings ALL fiction across the universe to life)
- 12,224
- 1,111
Been discussed, it's a NLF and never shown that.
Although it summoned Kenshiro and Mazimger Z.
Although it summoned Kenshiro and Mazimger Z.
- 12,224
- 1,111
Someone who happens tobe canonically above Kuma.
- 66
- 3
Book maker ignores conventional durability and resistances, since it also worked on Ajimu (despite the fact she let him use it on her) who is worlds stronger than Dio. Also considering that it isnt even a physical attack I dont see how he could dodge it or see it coming until when it hits. If they were bloodlusted than kumagawa would use book maker and even use All Fiction to make it instantaneuous (he can erase the "time it takes for him to attack" thus making his speed 0).
TWOH is however a physical attack, therefore it takes conscious effort or movement and thought to use, Book Maker and All Fiction do not, also stated by Kumagawa (he says he doesnt have to do anything to activate all fiction, he only does so because it looks cooler).
Dio is also NOT immune to paradoxical damage either. He cant even use TWOH if his hands are damaged. HA Dio is not canon to the JoJo story either, so even if he were stronger than Kumagawa then it wouldnt even count since i asked for a character from JoJo's Bizarre Adventures manga (if not then thats what i meant).
TWOH is however a physical attack, therefore it takes conscious effort or movement and thought to use, Book Maker and All Fiction do not, also stated by Kumagawa (he says he doesnt have to do anything to activate all fiction, he only does so because it looks cooler).
Dio is also NOT immune to paradoxical damage either. He cant even use TWOH if his hands are damaged. HA Dio is not canon to the JoJo story either, so even if he were stronger than Kumagawa then it wouldnt even count since i asked for a character from JoJo's Bizarre Adventures manga (if not then thats what i meant).
- 189
- 9
- Thread starter
- #31
Can't DIO stop time to dodge Book Maker? or is it immune to timestop as well?
- 66
- 3
Kumagawa is faster than time stop since All Fiction has been shown to be able to erase time itself (he erased the "time it takes for him to attack" allowing his attacks to be literally instant. technically faster than infinite, its literally "nothing"). Also Book Maker isnt a physical attack, its not something you can physically see like a bullet coming at you (not that i can see a moving bullet but these guys can since theyre faster than light)
- 189
- 9
- Thread starter
- #33
Ok, you've got me beat, one last thing that I read is that it puts them at the same level as Kumagawa, usually causing a draw. Does that mean it would be inconclusive?
- 12,224
- 1,111
Yeah, no, thats factually incirrect.
Can he bookmaker Reinhard Heydrich? Zeed? Lavos? Azrirl? The answer is no, he cant. If ya think he can you're wrong. Oh and this DIO is literally infinityxinfinity in power, he's literally infinite times stronger than any feat in Medaka Box.
Not true, it can be implemented on various things without contact, such as the entire infinite multiverse. His 2-A feat at his prime? That was done passively.
And yeah, TWOH blitzed an infinite being in speed, Kuma gets blitzed.
Dios not immune, he resists it though, everything else hit by D4c? Erased and paradoxes from existence. DIO? He was fine 10 seconds later.
Ya want a character in manga? GER, at best they tie.
But actually, Make Heaven DIO vs Kuma.
Can he bookmaker Reinhard Heydrich? Zeed? Lavos? Azrirl? The answer is no, he cant. If ya think he can you're wrong. Oh and this DIO is literally infinityxinfinity in power, he's literally infinite times stronger than any feat in Medaka Box.
Not true, it can be implemented on various things without contact, such as the entire infinite multiverse. His 2-A feat at his prime? That was done passively.
And yeah, TWOH blitzed an infinite being in speed, Kuma gets blitzed.
Dios not immune, he resists it though, everything else hit by D4c? Erased and paradoxes from existence. DIO? He was fine 10 seconds later.
Ya want a character in manga? GER, at best they tie.
But actually, Make Heaven DIO vs Kuma.
- 66
- 3
Technically yes, in Kumagawa's fight with Medaka, he uses Book Maker to make them equal on all fronts, it was noted that the fight would in fact go on for eternity, since any difference in their skills would be automatically equalized by book maker, the only reason why it didnt was because of some other reason that i cant remember. I believe it was something along the lines of her being the main character or something
- 66
- 3
You do it because I dont know how to. (if you want to)TheJ-ManRequiem said:
- 12,224
- 1,111
Also reminder Diavolo can erase time, something GER laughs at, which DIO in turn laughs at.
And no, erased time is merely baseline infinite speed, someone DIO stomped has that.
And no, erased time is merely baseline infinite speed, someone DIO stomped has that.
- 66
- 3
Also stop using 2A in your arguments, since Kumagawa is UNKNOWN with All Fiction you cant use that as justification for your argument since kumagawa doesnt even have a ranking
- 12,224
- 1,111
If it's closed immediatly I expect ya to concede.
- 66
- 3
Just because dio defeated someone who can erase time does not mean he can defeat kumagawa based on that, and 0 seconds is faster than infinite since infinite keeps going and does not stop. 0 is a definite stopping point and is literallt nothing, your argument is paradoxical
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
