Undyne the Undying vs Sans

[Talonmask]

I am not ignoring the difference in hits here, I've already acknowledged the amount of chip Sans needs to put Undyne down.

But while Undyne is strong, she's not invincible and is quite irritable, as seen in her battle with Frisk when they keep blocking her attacks.

While it is quite a stretch, her anger could get the better of her and she could possibly get less determined if she realizes it's pointless.

That's normal Undyne. UtU shows no signs of anger during the fight with Chara, no matter how much they wail on her. Even when she dies, she's pretty calm.

She actually seems quite distressed when she's beaten, the only way I can see her being calm is when she's under the delusion that everyone is safe despite her dying, meaning she thought she was dying for a good cause.

Put her in a scenario without prior planning, and nobody's being evacuated, I'm sure she wouldn't be as calm.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

She actually seems quite distressed when she's beaten, the only way I can see her being calm is when she's under the delusion that everyone is safe despite her dying, meaning she thought she was dying for a good cause.

Put her in a scenario without prior planning, and nobody's being evacuated, I'm sure she wouldn't be as calm.

...She said "dammit" and cursed her ability to not win like...once, and then smiled in Chara's face as she died.

>implying Sans is any threat whatsoever to the safety of other monsters

 

[Talonmask]

Yes, but as I have previously stated, Chara had to physically dodge every single one of Undyne's attacks, Sans has the ability to teleport his foe and himself, which means Undyne cannot corner him in with any attack.

And what if Sans does get tired? He can dodge in his sleep, and was evidently a lot less tired when he woke up, a time span of maybe 25 seconds.

That's where Green Mode comes in, which will prevent Sans from teleporting, since his soul is frozen and not just his body.
Again, Green Mode.

Implying that it's an unavoidable attack, Chara was in a close radius to Undyne, whereas Sans doesn't have to be.

I still don't see it being any different from before?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Implying that it's an unavoidable attack, Chara was in a close radius to Undyne, whereas Sans doesn't have to be.

I still don't see it being any different from before?

You're implying Sans would automatically be far away from Undyne at all times, which is incredibly unlikely. He's dodging dozens upon dozens more attacks from an opponent faster than Chara. There's going to be an opportunity to trap him in Green Mode loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong before he wears down all of Undyne's HP.

 

[Talonmask]

She actually seems quite distressed when she's beaten, the only way I can see her being calm is when she's under the delusion that everyone is safe despite her dying, meaning she thought she was dying for a good cause.

Put her in a scenario without prior planning, and nobody's being evacuated, I'm sure she wouldn't be as calm.

...She said "dammit" and cursed her ability to not win like...once, and then smiled in Chara's face as she died.
>implying Sans is any threat whatsoever to the safety of other monsters

She smiled because she knew even if she died, others would be safe.

Exactly, so why is she in her Undying mode in the first place? If Sans wasn't a threat to other monsters, she would never reach the level of determination to reach that form.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

She smiled because she knew even if she died, others would be safe.

Exactly, so why is she in her Undying mode in the first place? If Sans wasn't a threat to other monsters, she would never reach the level of determination to reach that form.

Exactly. That's not being distressed.

And Sans would never fight her. I didn't make the match.

 

[Talonmask]

Implying that it's an unavoidable attack, Chara was in a close radius to Undyne, whereas Sans doesn't have to be.

I still don't see it being any different from before?

You're implying Sans would automatically be far away from Undyne at all times, which is incredibly unlikely. He's dodging dozens upon dozens more attacks from an opponent faster than Chara. There's going to be an opportunity to trap him in Green Mode loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong before he wears down all of Undyne's HP.

I am failing to see that as too big of a problem, her spears for the most part have a linear pattern and are easy to dodge, Chara tries to get up close to the character and pinpoint an exact time to strike.

Also, in game logic, Chara's attacks are completely unavoidable, only Sans is able to dodge them, the only way Chara could have won the fight was by cheating, something they did not have to do for Undyne.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I am failing to see that as too big of a problem, her spears for the most part have a linear pattern and are easy to dodge, Chara tries to get up close to the character and pinpoint an exact time to strike.

Also, in game logic, Chara's attacks are completely unavoidable, only Sans is able to dodge them, the only way Chara could have won the fight was by cheating, something they did not have to do for Undyne.

That doesn't mean they're any harder to dodge, especially since Undyne has years of fighting experience.

Yes, by in game logic. By that same logic, Sans cannot dodge more than one attack, per turn. This is the reason we don't use this strictly in game logic and say Sans can dodge anything.

 

[Talonmask]

She smiled because she knew even if she died, others would be safe.

Exactly, so why is she in her Undying mode in the first place? If Sans wasn't a threat to other monsters, she would never reach the level of determination to reach that form.

Exactly. That's not being distressed.
And Sans would never fight her. I didn't make the match.

Hence why I said it was planned for others to be safe, so she, in her good nature, had no reason to not act calm. In this scenario, both are bloodlusted and it's on a neutral run, which means no evacuation.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Hence why I said it was planned for others to be safe, so she, in her good nature, had no reason to not act calm. In this scenario, both are bloodlusted and it's on a neutral run, which means no evacuation.

Yes, and NOBODY is in danger, hence why she has no reason to worry.

 

[Talonmask]

I am failing to see that as too big of a problem, her spears for the most part have a linear pattern and are easy to dodge, Chara tries to get up close to the character and pinpoint an exact time to strike.

Also, in game logic, Chara's attacks are completely unavoidable, only Sans is able to dodge them, the only way Chara could have won the fight was by cheating, something they did not have to do for Undyne.

That doesn't mean they're any harder to dodge, especially since Undyne has years of fighting experience.
Yes, by in game logic. By that same logic, Sans cannot dodge more than one attack, per turn. This is the reason we don't use this strictly in game logic and say Sans can dodge anything.

Actually, I would argue that they are easier to dodge, seeing as a straight line would only require one to step out of the path of the spear, it's not like it turns around.

And where did those years of fighting experience get her, knocking Asgore down once? She even stated that he likely let her do it, whereas Chara was undoubtedly going to kill Asgore.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Actually, I would argue that they are easier to dodge, seeing as a straight line would only require one to step out of the path of the spear, it's not like it turns around.

And where did those years of fighting experience get her, knocking Asgore down once? She even stated that he likely let her do it, whereas Chara was undoubtedly going to kill Asgore.

Not all of Undyne's spears travel in a straight line.

You mean because Chara was ludicrously stronger than Asgore? Obviously.

 

[Talonmask]

Hence why I said it was planned for others to be safe, so she, in her good nature, had no reason to not act calm. In this scenario, both are bloodlusted and it's on a neutral run, which means no evacuation.

Yes, and NOBODY is in danger, hence why she has no reason to worry.

I'll start replying to only one message so there's less clutter.

I am still highly skeptical of Undyne being able to land Green Mode on Sans, since, with no game logic, there's no box and it's completely dodgable, which means it requires melee distance.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'll start replying to only one message so there's less clutter.

I am still highly skeptical of Undyne being able to land Green Mode on Sans, since, with no game logic, there's no box and it's completely dodgable, which means it requires melee distance.

Probably a good idea, especially since it's mostly us.

It's dodgable, but it's never been dodged by anyone around her level of speed. It seems ridiculous to assume Sans would dodge every attempt, along with all the spears, while progressively getting more and more tired.

 

[Talonmask]

Actually, I would argue that they are easier to dodge, seeing as a straight line would only require one to step out of the path of the spear, it's not like it turns around.

And where did those years of fighting experience get her, knocking Asgore down once? She even stated that he likely let her do it, whereas Chara was undoubtedly going to kill Asgore.

Not all of Undyne's spears travel in a straight line.
You mean because Chara was ludicrously stronger than Asgore? Obviously.

If you're not counting the yellow ones and the blossoms (which Sans will have an easier time dodging than Chara), then yes, all of them do.

Chara was far stronger than Sans as well, but Sans is still capable of killing them, is he not? This is why I don't think the combat experience isn't too much of a factor here.

To address your other comment, yes, it's very unlikely for anyone close quarters to Undyne would be able to dodge her Green Mode, but none of her opponents had any sort of teleportation, which is why I believe that her landing it on an opponent who can instantaneously teleport to the other side of the battle field is highly debatable.

I'm not saying that Sans will always be really far away, but I'm saying it should be noted that if he wants to be, he can be before Undyne has the chance to even lift her arm completely for the swing.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

If you're not counting the yellow ones and the blossoms (which Sans will have an easier time dodging than Chara), then yes, all of them do.

Chara was far stronger than Sans as well, but Sans is still capable of killing them, is he not? This is why I don't think the combat experience isn't too much of a factor here.

To address your other comment, yes, it's very unlikely for anyone close quarters to Undyne would be able to dodge her Green Mode, but none of her opponents had any sort of teleportation, which is why I believe that her landing it on an opponent who can instantaneously teleport to the other side of the battle field is highly debatable.

I'm not saying that Sans will always be really far away, but I'm saying it should be noted that if he wants to be, he can be before Undyne has the chance to even lift her arm completely for the swing.

Two of Undyne's several attacks not going in a straight line automatically disqualifies "all" of them going in a straight line by definition, especially when she uses said attacks relatively frequently.

Yes, because:

a. Sans KR worked in that fight.

b. Chara had literally thousands of times less HP.

You're also implying Sans always used his teleportation to keep away from Chara, which he didn't. He mainly used it to hurt Chara.

Except when his stamina starts dropping, which it will, and which Undyne will effortlessly take advantage of.

 

[Talonmask]

If you're not counting the yellow ones and the blossoms (which Sans will have an easier time dodging than Chara), then yes, all of them do.

Chara was far stronger than Sans as well, but Sans is still capable of killing them, is he not? This is why I don't think the combat experience isn't too much of a factor here.

To address your other comment, yes, it's very unlikely for anyone close quarters to Undyne would be able to dodge her Green Mode, but none of her opponents had any sort of teleportation, which is why I believe that her landing it on an opponent who can instantaneously teleport to the other side of the battle field is highly debatable.

I'm not saying that Sans will always be really far away, but I'm saying it should be noted that if he wants to be, he can be before Undyne has the chance to even lift her arm completely for the swing.

Two of Undyne's several attacks not going in a straight line automatically disqualifies "all" of them going in a straight line by definition, especially when she uses said attacks relatively frequently.
Yes, because:

a. Sans KR worked in that fight.

b. Chara had literally thousands of times less HP.

You're also implying Sans always used his teleportation to keep away from Chara, which he didn't. He mainly used it to hurt Chara.

Except when his stamina starts dropping, which it will, and which Undyne will effortlessly take advantage of.

I'm pretty sure Undyne would find all of the teleporting to be disorienting and wouldn't be able to attack Sans because he can keep spamming her with a barrage of bones without giving her a chance to strike, the only time Undyne has an opportunity to attack is when he gets tired, which he can still dodge while asleep.

Chara had a lot less HP, sure, but they did have knowledge of Sans's entire line of attacks and had items that can fully heal, near fully heal and half heal, something Undyne does not.

To add to my previous statement, Sans won't get immensely tired if he doesn't have to dodge, ad if Undyne is constantly being warped and shot with lasers she won't have much opportunity to make him have to dodge.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'm pretty sure Undyne would find all of the teleporting to be disorienting and wouldn't be able to attack Sans because he can keep spamming her with a barrage of bones without giving her a chance to strike, the only time Undyne has an opportunity to attack is when he gets tired, which he can still dodge while asleep.

Chara had a lot less HP, sure, but they did have knowledge of Sans's entire line of attacks and had items that can fully heal, near fully heal and half heal, something Undyne does not.

To add to my previous statement, Sans won't get immensely tired if he doesn't have to dodge, ad if Undyne is constantly being warped and shot with lasers she won't have much opportunity to make him have to dodge.

I don't know about that. This is UtU, and she never really showed any signs of slowing down during her fight, unlike Sans. Also, Undyne has never really relied purely on sight to strike her foes, so I don't think Sans' teleportation would actually screw her over, that much.

Yes, but as I said, said much lower HP drained much faster, and if you combined a bunch of max healing items, Chara still cannot heal to Undyne's full HP, even if we were to allow them to heal past their peak. That's how much more punishment Undyne the Undying can take.

Except that too would tire him out. Sans also gets tired from overuse of his powers, remember?

 

[Talonmask]

Doing the math, if Chara was brought down to one HP and used their healings items, their maximum potential of HP when fighting Sans is only 474.

474 + cheating and intense prep time = dead Sans.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Doing the math, if Chara was brought down to one HP and used their healings items, their maximum potential of HP when fighting Sans is only 474.
474 + cheating and intense prep time = dead Sans.

Yes, and Undyne's max HP is greater than 20,000, and as I said, Sans is ACTUALLY only doing one damage, this time. No KR.

 

[Talonmask]

I'm pretty sure Undyne would find all of the teleporting to be disorienting and wouldn't be able to attack Sans because he can keep spamming her with a barrage of bones without giving her a chance to strike, the only time Undyne has an opportunity to attack is when he gets tired, which he can still dodge while asleep.

Chara had a lot less HP, sure, but they did have knowledge of Sans's entire line of attacks and had items that can fully heal, near fully heal and half heal, something Undyne does not.

To add to my previous statement, Sans won't get immensely tired if he doesn't have to dodge, ad if Undyne is constantly being warped and shot with lasers she won't have much opportunity to make him have to dodge.

I don't know about that. This is UtU, and she never really showed any signs of slowing down during her fight, unlike Sans. Also, Undyne has never really relied purely on sight to strike her foes, so I don't think Sans' teleportation would actually screw her over, that much.
Yes, but as I said, said much lower HP drained much faster, and if you combined a bunch of max healing items, Chara still cannot heal to Undyne's full HP, even if we were to allow them to heal past their peak. That's how much more punishment Undyne the Undying can take.

Except that too would tire him out. Sans also gets tired from overuse of his powers, remember?

The only power that seemed to tire him out to use was the slamming, which is probably most ineffective way of harming Undyne.

I think that's debatable, Undyne has only ever been able to strike you accurately when you are in her sight, she also had to catch up or corner Frisk to actually fight them.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The only power that seemed to tire him out to use was the slamming, which is probably most ineffective way of harming Undyne.

I think that's debatable, Undyne has only ever been able to strike you accurately when you are in her sight, she also had to catch up or corner Frisk to actually fight them.

Doubtful. Unless we assume dodging a few dozen attacks and using Blue Mode a few times fully depletes Sans energy, it was likely a little bit of everything.

That didn't stop her from throwing spears, which Sans will still need to dodge, which will tire him out much faster than they did Frisk.

 

[Talonmask]

The only power that seemed to tire him out to use was the slamming, which is probably most ineffective way of harming Undyne.

I think that's debatable, Undyne has only ever been able to strike you accurately when you are in her sight, she also had to catch up or corner Frisk to actually fight them.

Doubtful. Unless we assume dodging a few dozen attacks and using Blue Mode a few times fully depletes Sans energy, it was likely a little bit of everything.
That didn't stop her from throwing spears, which Sans will still need to dodge, which will tire him out much faster than they did Frisk.

I suppose, Sans does tire easy, but he also recovers quickly as well, and if either character were in character, Undyne would not strike Sans when he's so vulnerable.

The throwing spears during the chase with Frisk took less effort to dodge than the one's in the actual fight with her, they won't tire him out as quick as they would if she actually facing him.

It's a shame, really. Sans prime damage is from his KR, which is not allowed in battles like this, placing him at a severe disadvantage.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I suppose, Sans does tire easy, but he also recovers quickly as well, and if either character were in character, Undyne would not strike Sans when he's so vulnerable.

The throwing spears during the chase with Frisk took less effort to dodge than the one's in the actual fight with her, they won't tire him out as quick as they would if she actually facing him.

It's a shame, really. Sans prime damage is from his KR, which is not allowed in battles like this, placing him at a severe disadvantage.

No, but she'd totally Green Mode him, in character.

No, but they'll still tire him out, which is literally all that's needed.

I mean, it's not like it's not allowed. It just doesn't activate against someone who's a true hero.

 

[Talonmask]

I suppose, Sans does tire easy, but he also recovers quickly as well, and if either character were in character, Undyne would not strike Sans when he's so vulnerable.

The throwing spears during the chase with Frisk took less effort to dodge than the one's in the actual fight with her, they won't tire him out as quick as they would if she actually facing him.

It's a shame, really. Sans prime damage is from his KR, which is not allowed in battles like this, placing him at a severe disadvantage.

No, but she'd totally Green Mode him, in character.
No, but they'll still tire him out, which is literally all that's needed.

I mean, it's not like it's not allowed. It just doesn't activate against someone who's a true hero.

In character, she'd likely slow her attacks down when he's tired, making it less taxing on him.

If they tire him out and he takes a short nap, he can still likely dodge her Green Mode and snap back into action, which is what he basically did with Chara until they cheated for the second strike, which was completely unexpected.

Which is exactly my point, it's a primary source of output for him which means fighting Undyne will put him in an unlikely to win scenario.

Unless we are willing to assume that Undyne being completely bloodlusted and out to kill Sans for no reason (which is completely out of her character.) will influence KR on her, I don't see this battle being 100% on even terms.

Sans will be able to dodge the near-entirety of Undyne's attacks but won't be able to put her down in a quick enough manner, Sans can basically stall her for awhile until he gets lucky.

I'd say this match is mostly inconclusive (if not, slightly in Undyne's favor) if Sans can't use KR.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

In character, she'd likely slow her attacks down when he's tired, making it less taxing on him.

If they tire him out and he takes a short nap, he can still likely dodge her Green Mode and snap back into action, which is what he basically did with Chara until they cheated for the second strike, which was completely unexpected.

Which is exactly my point, it's a primary source of output for him which means fighting Undyne will put him in an unlikely to win scenario.

Unless we are willing to assume that Undyne being completely bloodlusted and out to kill Sans for no reason (which is completely out of her character.) will influence KR on her, I don't see this battle being 100% on even terms.

Sans will be able to dodge the near-entirety of Undyne's attacks but won't be able to put her down in a quick enough manner, Sans can basically stall her for awhile until he gets lucky.

I'd say this match is mostly inconclusive (if not, slightly in Undyne's favor) if Sans can't use KR.

Don't know. When she's serious in Undying Mode, she doesn't tend to hold back.

Yes, but we don't know just how restored he was after his brief nap. It's possible he would have collapsed after a few more turns, but we don't know, because Chara killed him.

I'm well aware, but again, I didn't make the thread. Just stating why (that being one of the reasons) I think Undyne's in the much more likely win position, here.

See above paragraph.

Again, it's not that he can't use KR, just that it doesn't affect Undyne the Undying. She has, at the very, very most, killed six people (and even this is unlikely), and in Undying form, she's fighting to save everyone in the world.

 

[Talonmask]

In character, she'd likely slow her attacks down when he's tired, making it less taxing on him.

If they tire him out and he takes a short nap, he can still likely dodge her Green Mode and snap back into action, which is what he basically did with Chara until they cheated for the second strike, which was completely unexpected.

Which is exactly my point, it's a primary source of output for him which means fighting Undyne will put him in an unlikely to win scenario.

Unless we are willing to assume that Undyne being completely bloodlusted and out to kill Sans for no reason (which is completely out of her character.) will influence KR on her, I don't see this battle being 100% on even terms.

Sans will be able to dodge the near-entirety of Undyne's attacks but won't be able to put her down in a quick enough manner, Sans can basically stall her for awhile until he gets lucky.

I'd say this match is mostly inconclusive (if not, slightly in Undyne's favor) if Sans can't use KR.

Don't know. When she's serious in Undying Mode, she doesn't tend to hold back.
Yes, but we don't know just how restored he was after his brief nap. It's possible he would have collapsed after a few more turns, but we don't know, because Chara killed him.

I'm well aware, but again, I didn't make the thread. Just stating why (that being one of the reasons) I think Undyne's in the much more likely win position, here.

See above paragraph.

Again, it's not that he can't use KR, just that it doesn't affect Undyne the Undying. She has, at the very, very most, killed six people (and even this is unlikely), and in Undying form, she's fighting to save everyone in the world.

Le sigh, gg Azza.

I apologize if I came off as annoying in this thread, I don't mean to be.

(I keep seeming to word that wrong, what I mean is that Sans's KR is where most of his damage comes from, and since it does not affect characters like Undyne, he's just gonna end up having a bad time, since he's not able to use everything he has at his disposal to the fullest.)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Le sigh, gg Azza.

I apologize if I came off as annoying in this thread, I don't mean to be.

(I keep seeming to word that wrong, what I mean is that Sans's KR is where most of his damage comes from, and since it does not affect characters like Undyne, he's just gonna end up having a bad time, since he's not able to use everything he has at his disposal to the fullest.)

At no point were you annoying.

 

[Angry_Dummy]

I'm am firmly of the opinion that Sans would lose to Asgore, Mettaton (any form), Muffet, regular Undyne, Mad Dummy, Papyrus, Toriel, and possibly Flowey, granted the latter was able to get off a single attack.

He's the "easiest enemy" for a reason, and that reason is because he deals one damage, always takes at least one point of damage from any blow, has only one hit point, and lives in a world where every single competitor launches a curtain of lethal projectiles, can fight you some more forever, and has anywhere between twenty to two-thousand+ hit points.

You knock off thirty a second, and can dodge twenty-two attacks before you're extremely exhausted.

Good luck, chump!


Yes, he dodged around the speedy possessed Frisk, but every other monster in the game can move as fast as they do, frequently tag and injure them, and attacks via curtains of magical gunfire. Frisk attacks in a very predictable manner, using one big attack, or a flurry of smaller ones aimed in one direction, like a normal human child would. He dodges the attacks by side-stepping them. There is only one creature that maneuvers around on the battle screen while moving their legs, and that creature is the Annoying Dog, so there is nothing magical going on here.

The reason Sans is so effective is because he's a fragile speedster fighting a glass cannon who avoids getting mulched by performing acrobatics and deals damage with big, clumsy hits and letting their killing intent do the rest. His foe dies in three seconds to his attacks because they have 92 hit points, so they're constantly trying to dodge.

Monsters, aside from Sans, just stand there and take it. They're all stone walls by comparison to humans, having astronomically more hit points, but doing much less damage in return. They are at little risk of dealing damage to others with their assaults because of the massive damage/HP ratio, so they don't practice dodging. Battles between them often boil down to endurance matches.

So even with Sans landing every blow, he's not going to be able to dodge around their assaults as they take his on the chin without even moving. They don't even need to try, while Sans, who has considerably less stamina than they do, is burning all of his energy on not getting murdered by attacks that, by everyone else's standards, are just barely lethal.


And so, "The easiest enemy. Can't keep dodging forever. Keep attacking."

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah but most monsters can't dodge while it's not their turn. Mad Dummy is really only doging during his own turn, and that's his own projectile. Also considering that by so late in Genocide they know they are going down in a single hit, they would probably at least try to dodge. Which they don't.

 

[Angry_Dummy]

What I was saying was that monsters tend to never dodge at all, even when their lives were on the line.

If you were actually agreeing with me, then the words "Yeah but" shouldn't be in your sentence.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

That wouldn't make much sense that none of them even tried to dodge, especially since you can't really hit Sans in normal cirumstances.

I didn't exactly said that I agreed with you tho...?

 

[Marionaruto1]

well since undyne won't be able to dodge sans attacks easily and sans throws a much bigger barrage of attacks than undyne that do 40 hits per second plus that any other hits speed up the process of damage, and since undyne needs to be in close proximity to fire her multiple differently colored spears or use green mode and sans just has to move his hand to do blue mode sans could easily control the battle.

advantages for sans

much bigger and faster barrage of attacks than undyne, easier time dodging,teleportation/of others near attacks, can use blue mode easier than undynes green mode,easier control ranged attacks,1 atk nullifies invincibility frames/defense,40 hits/s + faster damage if multiple attacks hit, more options to attack with gastor blaster, bones, blue mode, hax,

cons for sans

no kr, supposedly has one hit (it's unknown), low stamina but can recover after a quick nap (supposably),

pros for undyne the undying

extended melee range with spears, can throw multiple spears at a distance (though not accurately), possibly stronger, can create multiple spears/ colors for different effects, wears armor, a lot of health,

cons

easily dodgeable attacks, needs to be close for accurate attacks , has to be in somewhat close range for green mode, gives opponents spear to defend themselves during green mode, much slower especially with armor on, heat, has a time limit before melting from determination.

the way I see it sans barrage of attacks in a quicker succession take this battle. since undyne can't move as quickly with armor on she'll have a much harder time dodging sans attacks than san will with undynes spears.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

cons

easily dodgeable attacks, needs to be close for accurate attacks , has to be in somewhat close range for green mode, gives opponents spear to defend themselves during green mode, much slower especially with armor on, heat, has a time limit before melting from determination.

the way I see it sans barrage of attacks in a quicker succession take this battle. since undyne can't move as quickly with armor on she'll have a much harder time dodging sans attacks than san will with undynes spears.

easily dodgeable attacks

What?

Also, I'm really not sure UtU has a time limit. That seems to be just speculation. You can drag the battle on as much as you want and she'll never get any weaker. I also don't see how UtU is slower in armor. She should be way fatser than her previous self, and even then she could easily catch Frisk while in her armor.

 

[Marionaruto1]

cons

easily dodgeable attacks, needs to be close for accurate attacks , has to be in somewhat close range for green mode, gives opponents spear to defend themselves during green mode, much slower especially with armor on, heat, has a time limit before melting from determination.

the way I see it sans barrage of attacks in a quicker succession take this battle. since undyne can't move as quickly with armor on she'll have a much harder time dodging sans attacks than san will with undynes spears.

easily dodgeable attacks
What?
Also, I'm really not sure UtU has a time limit. That seems to be just speculation. You can drag the battle on as much as you want and she'll never get any weaker. I also don't see how UtU is slower in armor. She should be way fatser than her previous self, and even then she could easily catch Frisk while in her armor.

while she could possibly be faster with determination she still wouldn't be able to catch sans who can teleport around the battlefield. and I said easily dodgeable because while yes she can use green mode you clearly see where the spears are coming from and can react much more easily than compared to gastor which only offers a few seconds to avoid. also yes undyne would suffer from melting after long enough (not going with the frisk fight since it stays your turn as long as you choose) I'm going with what alphys stated in the true laboratory *you see unlike most humans, monsters' bodies' don't have enough physical matter to take those concentration of determination their bodies started to melt, and lost what physicality they had.*

 

[MagnusXL]

easily dodgeable attacks

What?

Also, I'm really not sure UtU has a time limit. That seems to be just speculation. You can drag the battle on as much as you want and she'll never get any weaker. I also don't see how UtU is slower in armor. She should be way fatser than her previous self, and even then she could easily catch Frisk while in her armor.

Undyne the Undying's time limit is indeed speculation, but well founded during the True Pacifist route found in the lab entries (where the almalgams lost all form overnight and fused together after being injected with determination) and partially displayed in regular undyne's death where she melts away over several rounds. Still, she would at least last more than long enough to take this fight, especially if you consider that there is no hard time limit during the in-game fight / her astronomical HP value / San's low stamina and durability.

I also agree on the later point. No where is it shown that her armor actually slows her down. She walks slowly initially for dramatic effect, but still outspeeds Frisk when it comes to an actual chase.

 

[Marionaruto1]

easily dodgeable attacks

What?

Also, I'm really not sure UtU has a time limit. That seems to be just speculation. You can drag the battle on as much as you want and she'll never get any weaker. I also don't see how UtU is slower in armor. She should be way fatser than her previous self, and even then she could easily catch Frisk while in her armor.

Undyne the Undying's time limit is indeed speculation, but well founded during the True Pacifist route found in the lab entries (where the almalgams lost all form overnight and fused together after being injected with determination) and partially displayed in regular undyne's death where she melts away over several rounds. Still, she would at least last more than long enough to take this fight, especially if you consider that there is no hard time limit during the in-game fight / her astronomical HP value / San's low stamina and durability.
I also agree on the later point. No where is it shown that her armor actually slows her down. She walks slowly initially for dramatic effect, but still outspeeds Frisk when it comes to an actual chase.

when I stated much slower it was in comparison with sans who can teleport, and it was shown during undynes date that she moves much quicker on her feet without the armor on, and yes she's catching up to frisk who isn't even shown to be running from undyne yet frisk is still able to easily escape her battle multiple times forcing undyne to catch her over and over again to fight frisk, but since this is determined undyne she may be a little faster than usual but sans is still faster than undyne

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

and yes she's catching up to frisk who isn't even shown to be running from undyne yet frisk is still able to easily escape her battle multiple times forcing undyne to catch her over and over again to fight frisk
This is entirely false. Frisk not having a run animation doesn't mean they aren't running. It wouldn't make sense for Frisk to use the command RUN in battle and then attempt to slowly walk away.

 

[Marionaruto1]

and yes she's catching up to frisk who isn't even shown to be running from undyne yet frisk is still able to easily escape her battle multiple times forcing undyne to catch her over and over again to fight frisk

This is entirely false. Frisk not having a run animation doesn't mean they aren't running. It wouldn't make sense for Frisk to use the command RUN in battle and then attempt to slowly walk away.
neither is stating that frisk is always running, frisk does have a run command that works 100% against regular undyne in battle (except on green mode) and it is stated by papyrus that frisk is walking during that animation on the overworld when frisk ignores his puzzles. Either way I've already stated that determined undyne could be faster than usual and again the speed comparison was towards sans.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

neither is stating that frisk is always running, frisk does have a run command that works 100% against regular undyne in battle (except on green mode)

The command RUN works on lots of enemies, and is Frisk's response to Undyne refusing to accept MERCY. I don't think Frisk would get away from the battle by attempting to slowly walk. It's nonsensical.