• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Undertale Monsters Downgrade + Additional abilities for many characters

UT Additional abilities for characters

The profiles are outdated so we need to update them.

Flowey should have Aura and Social Influencing for the same reason Frisk has, due to MERCY emanating an aura of peaceful Determination, which will cause any opponent that is unsure of their desire to fight to give up, with Flowey having solved everyone's problems flawlessly in his first runs, a clear parallel to Frisk.

Undyne should get Weapon Mastery because she has many weapons ( swords, knives, axes, etc..) and since she is the leader of the Royal Guard she should be able to use them efficiently. Asgore and Gerson should also have it because Asgore trained Undyne and Gerson was stated to be "The Hammer of Justice".

Muffet should get Resistance to Extreme Heat because she can survive Hotland. Undyne should also get it because she can survive the explosion of her oven.

Undyne should also get Resistance to Extreme Cold, because she can survive in Snowdin and so do Greater Dog, Glyde, Lesser Dog, Doggo, Jerry, Dogamy and Dogressa for the same reason. Endogeny and Snowdrakes Mother should also get it because they should be comparable to Snowdin Dogs and Snowdrake. Mettaton should also get it lol.

Alphys could get Resistance to Extreme Cold too, because she was probably the one who put her hidden cameras in Snowdin.

Frisk should get Resistance to Extreme Cold and get Weapon Mastery

Intelligence Update
The Intelligence tiers of some characters are very outdated.
-Undyne is an expert in combat, she is very skilled. She trained Papyrus and the rest of the Royal Guard, not to mention she was trained by Asgore himself.
-Mettaton single-handedly built an entire brand and became a famous star after acquiring his body. He excels in various entertainment fields, including acting, reporting, and cooking. He created numerous challenging questions for his quiz show and assisted Alphys in designing her puzzles to portray her as a 'hero.' Additionally, he reorganized the CORE, hired mercenaries, and outsmarted Alphys through hacking, all in the name of 'saving' humanity.
- Papyrus was able to make a maze that even Asgore got lost in, he knows a lot about Photoshop, he painted an entire rock formation flawless, and he has many other feats.

All of them should get Gifted Intelligence

AP Downgrade
StrymUltra revised the 8-B Flowey elevator calculation.
The recalc dropped.

High End got accepted, meaning that...
  • Everyone who is 8-B becomes High 8-C+ (7.28 Tons) instead (and none can become 8-B as the gap is x1.51, that's way too much to upscale. If Jojo characters cannot become 8-B while having a higher calc, neither should be UT's).
  • Characters who scale to Human SOULs (Frisk, singular Human SOULs and Humanity) will become 7-C+ (7.28 * 12000 = 87360 Tons or 87.36 Kilotons)
    • SOUL-Asriel might still upscale to baseline High 7-C (100 Kilotons) due to him being implied to be stronger than full-power humans tho. If you do, that "At least [...], likely far higher" should be removed and leave him at just High 7-C.
  • The characters are still Class M, however:
    • Current Class M characters now will scale to 3304.68 Metric Tons.
    • Photoshop Flowey/Asriel instead are >>x2 that, aka 6609.36 Metric Tons (or 6614.2 Metric Tons if you include Undyne and Papyrus scaling each to 2.42 Tons. Sans and Undyne cannot be added as their physical LS is Unknown).
So yeah, monsters will get downgraded

These 2 8-C calcs should be accepted again

Undertale: Knight Knight’s Meteors

Undertale: Mettaton's big leg kick


The reason why these were removed was due to "Frisk takes damage by a single bullet instead of the full thing so none scales" when this is flawed as:
  • The attacks are still made with the full extent of the Monster's magic, which is accepted as scaling to physicals. Moving 5 stones at the same time is the same as moving a single stone x5 heavier than a singular one.
  • The monsters of both calcs have ATK and DEF as being equivalent. Not only is Frisk technically still taking a fraction of the full attack, but the reason can be attributed to the wack damage system that allows even super low stats to damage Frisk. Not to mention that Frisk can easily harm these monsters anyway.
Aka restore these feats again. 2 8-C feats added on a High 8-C+ is always a welcome support.

Minor Updates:
Some profile pages need to get some minor fixes, like grammar stuff etc.

Conclusions:
  • 8-B characters become High 8-C+
  • Human Soul becomes 7-C+
  • Two 8-C calcs get accepted again
  • A few characters get Gifted Intelligence update
  • Many characters get more abilities
  • Some minor fixes are done
 
Last edited:
I mean it could be sans being weird or even him just having fake snow I don't think a wooden structure should be surviving either.
That said ice wolf exists and sends blocks of ice from snowdin all the way to the core
 
I mean it could be sans being weird or even him just having fake snow I don't think a wooden structure should be surviving either.
That said ice wolf exists and sends blocks of ice from snowdin all the way to the core
Why would it be fake snow tho? It makes sense to be the snow from Snowdin. Sans is too lazy to clean his clothes so they are dirty from Snowdin´s snow.
I don't think he would simply put fake snow on his clothes and nothing implies it.

+ This is an approved reason to give Papyrus Resistance to extreme cold
 
I mean it could be sans being weird or even him just having fake snow I don't think a wooden structure should be surviving either.
That said ice wolf exists and sends blocks of ice from snowdin all the way to the core
Also, the snowdin blocks dont get vaporized in Hotland so it proves more that Snowdin stuff is so cold that can tank Hotlands temperature
 
I mean it could be sans being weird or even him just having fake snow I don't think a wooden structure should be surviving either.
That said ice wolf exists and sends blocks of ice from snowdin all the way to the core
I hope you do realize this is accepted on the profiles already.

You'd have to downgrade it in order for this to happen.
 
Undyne should also get Resistance to Extreme Cold, because she can survive in Snowdin and so do Greater Dog, Glyde, Lesser Dog, Doggo, Jerry, Dogamy and Dogressa for the same reason. Endogeny and Snowdrakes Mother should also get it because they should be comparable to Snowdin Dogs and Snowdrake. Mettaton should also get it lol.
Undyne should be listed as "Minor" as she's still clearly affected by it, just noy enough to be frozen.
Frisk should get Resistance to Extreme Cold and get Weapon Mastery
I thought they already did?

Everything else I agree with, I'll add few things to the High 8-C+ thing to add more consistency to the feat.
 
I'll add few things to the High 8-C+ thing to add more consistency to the feat.
These 2 8-C calcs should be accepted again



The reason why these were removed was due to "Frisk takes damage by a single bullet instead of the full thing so none scales" when this is flawed as:
  • The attacks are still made with the full extent of the Monster's magic, which is accepted as scaling to physicals. Moving 5 stones at the same time is the same as moving a single stone x5 heavier than a singular one.
  • The monsters of both calcs have ATK and DEF as being equivalent. Not only is Frisk technically still taking a fraction of the full attack, but the reason can be attributed to the wack damage system that allows even super low stats to damage Frisk. Not to mention that Frisk can easily harm these monsters anyway.
Aka restore these feats again. 2 8-C feats added on a High 8-C+ is always a welcome support.
 
These 2 8-C calcs should be accepted again



The reason why these were removed was due to "Frisk takes damage by a single bullet instead of the full thing so none scales" when this is flawed as:
  • The attacks are still made with the full extent of the Monster's magic, which is accepted as scaling to physicals. Moving 5 stones at the same time is the same as moving a single stone x5 heavier than a singular one.
  • The monsters of both calcs have ATK and DEF as being equivalent. Not only is Frisk technically still taking a fraction of the full attack, but the reason can be attributed to the wack damage system that allows even super low stats to damage Frisk. Not to mention that Frisk can easily harm these monsters anyway.
Aka restore these feats again. 2 8-C feats added on a High 8-C+ is always a welcome support.
Lets add the MTT bomb feat too
W Strym. Since the MTT leg calc will get accepted does that mean Class 25 will come back?
 
Don't really agree with the Guard getting Gifted. Just being trained by Undyne doesn't really indicate much and they really don't show this skill in their fights (Doggo sorta just has one attack and has no response to someone just standing there, RG02 taking off his armour in the middle of combat because it's hot, etc).
Everything else looks good tho
 
Don't really agree with the Guard getting Gifted. Just being trained by Undyne doesn't really indicate much and they really don't show this skill in their fights (Doggo sorta just has one attack and has no response to someone just standing there, RG02 taking off his armour in the middle of combat because it's hot, etc).
Everything else looks good tho
Didn’t notice Guards being proposed to be Gifted tbh

Yeah they have shown nothing around that level of skill/intelligence
 
Last edited:
Don't really agree with the Guard getting Gifted. Just being trained by Undyne doesn't really indicate much and they really don't show this skill in their fights (Doggo sorta just has one attack and has no response to someone just standing there, RG02 taking off his armour in the middle of combat because it's hot, etc).
Everything else looks good tho
They should still be at least Above Average in combat, especially members like RG01 and RG02. They were chosen by Undyne to be the part of the Royal Guard, she wouldn't choose them if they were complete fools. They have a few foolish moments, but they are still not that bad
 
to be fair this is sans
That doesn't change that much. That was real snow. It makes more sense to believe Sans is too lazy to clean his clothes and that's why they are unclean with snow than to think Sans just randomly put fake snow on his clothes. If it was fake snow, Sans would have made a joke about it and it would have been explicit for the player.
 
This isn't relevant to the calc, at all.
Oh and by the way it's likely that the underground has less than 12000 monsters, the 12000 number is ratings, not viewers

Still, we know there are thousands of monsters underground from an echo flower.
That's a fair concern, however where's the scan for "thousands"?
I thought giving it a separate thread.
This is a thread about AP, so we talk about scaling too.
 
The thing is that I'm not sure if Flowey was literally moving the elevator by himself
Literally everything points at Flowey doing that, give more evidence outside "I don't think so".
🗿

Sounds hyperbolic but given the size of the backgrounds of New Home and Hotland, I'd argue that's ok for the number to be nerfed to 2000.
By the way, speaking of numbers, Mettaton also implies there are millions of humans on the surface ("MILLIONS OF HUMANS WILL WATCH ME!")
Definitely not something that's like the real world, no.
 
Ok so...

7.28 * 2000 = 14560 Tons/14.56 Kilotons, which is 7-C

However, I don't think that assuming that all the monsters being that high is a good indicator because we see more monsters other than the ones we fight, and some are 9-A on top of that (Sans, Jerry and Alphys), so what to do? Assuming a 50/50 between 9-A and High 8-C+ monsters:
  • 0.008803 * 1000 = 8.803 Tons
  • 7.28 * 1000 = 7280 Tons
  • 8.803 + 7280 = 7287.803 Tons or ≈ 7.29 Kilotons
Still 7-C. Up to the staff to decide which end to use.
 
Ok so...

7.28 * 2000 = 14560 Tons/14.56 Kilotons, which is 7-C

However, I don't think that assuming that all the monsters being that high is a good indicator because we see more monsters other than the ones we fight, and some are 9-A on top of that (Sans, Jerry and Alphys), so what to do? Assuming a 50/50 between 9-A and High 8-C+ monsters:
  • 0.008803 * 1000 = 8.803 Tons
  • 7.28 * 1000 = 7280 Tons
  • 8.803 + 7280 = 7287.803 Tons or ≈ 7.29 Kilotons
Still 7-C. Up to the staff to decide which end to use.
I´ll add this to the thread (If 2000 gets accepted)
 
Ok so...

7.28 * 2000 = 14560 Tons/14.56 Kilotons, which is 7-C

However, I don't think that assuming that all the monsters being that high is a good indicator because we see more monsters other than the ones we fight, and some are 9-A on top of that (Sans, Jerry and Alphys), so what to do? Assuming a 50/50 between 9-A and High 8-C+ monsters:
  • 0.008803 * 1000 = 8.803 Tons
  • 7.28 * 1000 = 7280 Tons
  • 8.803 + 7280 = 7287.803 Tons or ≈ 7.29 Kilotons
Still 7-C. Up to the staff to decide which end to use.
7288.803*
But yeah, still 7-C
 
Back
Top