- 13,581
- 5,570
Continuation of this thread, which became like super long and hard to follow:
8-B and Class M
This new calc came out, with Flowey having both 8-B stats and Class M LS as a side effect.
Now... how would this affect scaling?
Attack Potency
As already said in Asgore's profile, he's far stronger than Flowey is, due to the latter, despite his ability to SAVE and LOAD, could never beat Asgore once, making Asgore far stronger than Flowey is.
Well... we have Undyne, who trained with Asgore and even managed to knock him down, other than being capable of overthrowing Toriel off-screen (with Toriel being equal to Asgore due to both having 80 ATK/DEF, mind you), which would mean that base Undyne (50 ATK) isn't leagues below Asgore, ending up downscaling from him, making her 8-B
Every monster whose ATK/DEF Value is between 18 and 50 will become from 9-A a 8-B for the reasons already said here (with the calc being changed obviously).
A full power of a Human SOUL will also change:
Flowey's LS rating will be Class M (2042 Tons for an approximation), How will this affect scaling? Well, not much, outside few things.
Flowey's feat is done through his vines, meaning he doesn't exactly scale with his body (given he's a literal flower after all), meaning he'd be something like "Unknown, Class M with vines".
Only one who'd scale are:
Well, I disagree with it, I'd like to remember that these are all small vines, a smaller part of the bigger ones Flowey is made of. It's obvious as hell that his whole body is stronger than the combined strenght of all the smaller vines, it's like saying that my whole hand isn't stronger than the combined strenght of all my 5 fingers. Given that 2 of these characters are Class M (2042 Tons), x2 would be 4084 Tons, aka still Class M if Asgore and Toriel are accepted here.
Asriel's Intelligence
For some reason the profile doesn't include sections for his child self, so I fixed that and did this. References will be added in the profile if accepted.
Also updated from Above Average to Genius, due to him being basically almost omniscient over the whole Underground thanks to the absurd amount of resets he made, having learned almost every single bit of knownledge and detail that is possible to learn in the Underground, to the point he can accurately predict what the outcomes of his actions would be, or what will the characters say and/or do. I don't think that merely "show greater cognitive ability than the norm, but do not particularly stand out in any intellectual or academic fields." fits this, like at all.
Lifting Strength nerfs
While Flowey, Asgore, and whoever scales from the latter scales to Class M, other things about the LS stuff for Undertale never seemed right to me.
Why are some of the characters Class 10? That is got through Papyrus' and Mettaton's attacks, but these are, ya know, attacks, even their profiles say they're not physically that strong, nor they can lift that much. However, there's still the Ice Wolf scaling (Class 5) which can be used. Characters who can get an update from being clearly physically stronger than him are:
8-B and Class M
This new calc came out, with Flowey having both 8-B stats and Class M LS as a side effect.
Now... how would this affect scaling?
Attack Potency
As already said in Asgore's profile, he's far stronger than Flowey is, due to the latter, despite his ability to SAVE and LOAD, could never beat Asgore once, making Asgore far stronger than Flowey is.
Well... we have Undyne, who trained with Asgore and even managed to knock him down, other than being capable of overthrowing Toriel off-screen (with Toriel being equal to Asgore due to both having 80 ATK/DEF, mind you), which would mean that base Undyne (50 ATK) isn't leagues below Asgore, ending up downscaling from him, making her 8-B
Every monster whose ATK/DEF Value is between 18 and 50 will become from 9-A a 8-B for the reasons already said here (with the calc being changed obviously).
A full power of a Human SOUL will also change:
- The previous calc of 0.04476 Tons that's currently used to justify 9-A will be replaced from the new 8-B one (13.3442 Tons), meaning that the new AP would be:
- Ruins and Snowdin Monsters + Waterfall, Hotland and CORE Monsters = (2*2400*0.0016) + (3*2400*13.3442) = 96085.92 Tons, or 96.086 Kilotons (7-C+)
- Asriel with the power of a single SOUL will be baseline High 7-C off massively upscaling from a single SOUL
- Photoshop Flowey instead will be "Unknown, at least High 7-C+", due to him being exponentially above a SOUL x 6, thus being >> 576.52 Kilotons (with High 7-C+ starting at 550 Kilotons)
Flowey's LS rating will be Class M (2042 Tons for an approximation), How will this affect scaling? Well, not much, outside few things.
Flowey's feat is done through his vines, meaning he doesn't exactly scale with his body (given he's a literal flower after all), meaning he'd be something like "Unknown, Class M with vines".
Only one who'd scale are:
- Asgore and Toriel, due to the former always beating Flowey with the latter having no chance of winning ever without Frisk. While the details of the fights are unknown, I'd remind you that magic in UNDERTALE can directly harm the SOUL, something that Flowey can also do with his pellets, implying that Flowey's attacks still have magical properties, as implied from him having still Asriel's dust as part of him (due to Alphys creating Flowey through injecting DT in one of the flowers with Asriel's dust). This is important due to Monsters' bodies being made of magic and attuned to their SOUL, thus their dust being their "essence", which is, in-verse, their SOUL. Given Asgore's status as a Boss Monster, and him being far stronger than Flowey, who has still magical properties due to having the dust of another boss monster, I think that at least a "likely" is warranted here.
- Undyne the Undying and Mettaton NEO, due to them being physically far stronger than Asgore.
- Sans, but only as a possibly. He also killed Flowey a lot of times, and given his heavy use of Telekinesis in the fight, he might be stronger than Flowey in that regard. A "Class 10, possibly Class M with Telekinesis" is probably the best here.
Well, I disagree with it, I'd like to remember that these are all small vines, a smaller part of the bigger ones Flowey is made of. It's obvious as hell that his whole body is stronger than the combined strenght of all the smaller vines, it's like saying that my whole hand isn't stronger than the combined strenght of all my 5 fingers. Given that 2 of these characters are Class M (2042 Tons), x2 would be 4084 Tons, aka still Class M if Asgore and Toriel are accepted here.
Asriel's Intelligence
For some reason the profile doesn't include sections for his child self, so I fixed that and did this. References will be added in the profile if accepted.
Also updated from Above Average to Genius, due to him being basically almost omniscient over the whole Underground thanks to the absurd amount of resets he made, having learned almost every single bit of knownledge and detail that is possible to learn in the Underground, to the point he can accurately predict what the outcomes of his actions would be, or what will the characters say and/or do. I don't think that merely "show greater cognitive ability than the norm, but do not particularly stand out in any intellectual or academic fields." fits this, like at all.
Lifting Strength nerfs
While Flowey, Asgore, and whoever scales from the latter scales to Class M, other things about the LS stuff for Undertale never seemed right to me.
Why are some of the characters Class 10? That is got through Papyrus' and Mettaton's attacks, but these are, ya know, attacks, even their profiles say they're not physically that strong, nor they can lift that much. However, there's still the Ice Wolf scaling (Class 5) which can be used. Characters who can get an update from being clearly physically stronger than him are:
- Papyrus
- Asgore (if Class M is rejected)
- Toriel (if Class M is rejected)
- Mettaton
- Gerson
- Aaron
- Royal Guards
- Knight Knight
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