Undead Defiance: The Jammed vs The Vengeful

[Wokistan]

I mean, when he gets rezzed he gets rezxed down in bullet hell, which ends up as a BFR. It seems like the type 4 that Kharn has in a way, since even though Khorne may decide to revive him, if he does at all it'd be away from the fight where he just died because Khorne would see Kharn winning via "lol 1-A immortality" as dumb and antithetical to it's nature.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Also I will note that his portal being there is likely just because you now have his possession (Gun that can Kill the Past). Coming at the end of the game is likely game mechanics for balancing (sending a base-form Gungeoneer into Bullet Hell is suicide).

 

[Wokistan]

Honestly it's doable with bullet, blasphemy is kinda dumb

Going to bullet hell precludes actually getting the gun though.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Garg Type 4 in this case notates that Lich is "protected" (cursed) by a higher being. To overcome that immortality, you have to overcome that higher being.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Wokistan

my bullet son can do anything

 

[The_Wright_Way]

@Garg Type 4 in this case notates that Lich is "protected" (cursed) by a higher being. To overcome that immortality, you have to overcome that higher being.

But he revives away from the fight, so Mercer wins anyway.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Also @Wokistan Shit, sorry, meant Bullet that can Kill the Past.

@Wright He can pull Mercer in tho.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Also @Wokistan Shit, sorry, meant Bullet that can Kill the Past.

@Wright He can pull Mercer in tho.

With a portal. Which can be dodged. Unless it sucks you in or something. How long does it take Lich to revive?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Unknown, though it seems to work via time manipulation and just rewinding everything.

And yeah, it can be dodged. So can everything, that isn't really an argument.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Also, doesn't Alex need biomass to regen fast? I seem to remember him needing fodder to absorb. The Gungeon has no biomass. All the enemies are made of steel/lead, and are already dead.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Also, doesn't Alex need biomass to regen fast? I seem to remember him needing fodder to absorb. The Gungeon has no biomass. All the enemies are made of steel/lead, and are already dead.

Calcium from bones should still do the trick.

 

[Schnee_One]

You just described a supreme hunter, so Alex can still consume

 

[Mr. Bambu]

They have no biomass, is the point. But alright. Does Mercer have a counter to the other abilities of Lich, though? I assume you two are knowledgeable and, as said above, I am not terribly so. Without a permanent way to kill the Lich, I think the best Mercer can hope for is incon via just absorbing Lich over and over.

 

[Schnee_One]

Why can Lich can back from Absorbtion?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Why can Lich can back from Absorbtion?

Type 4 immortality.

 

[Schnee_One]

Type 4 immortality.

I am pretty sure a form of making your body stronger doesn't prevent absorbtion

Legit what does Type 4 even help with?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That. He just gets put back into Bullet Hell because Kaliber is a salty wench with a grudge

 

[The_Wright_Way]

They have no biomass, is the point. But alright. Does Mercer have a counter to the other abilities of Lich, though? I assume you two are knowledgeable and, as said above, I am not terribly so. Without a permanent way to kill the Lich, I think the best Mercer can hope for is incon via just absorbing Lich over and over.

Again, your assuming that Alex will be hit with the portal when he can capably dodge. If he dodges, he wins. If not, inconclusive.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Garg A higher power does not allow him to die, placing him back into Bullet Hell. I cannot explain it simpler than that.

@Wright You're assuming he doesn't. Speed equalized against something Mercer has never dealt with, I'm gonna go ahead and say he is more than likely going to be caught off-guard and sent through the portal.

 

[Schnee_One]

Isn't that Type 8?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

No, because he isn't reliant on some concept or object, just that his immortality is backed up by another being. He is protected via godhood. That is literally Type 4.

 

[Schnee_One]

@Wright You're assuming he doesn't. Speed equalized against something Mercer has never dealt with, I'm gonna go ahead and say he is more than likely going to be caught off-guard and sent through the portal.

Dude, it is a portal, BFR itself isn't necessarily something he has dearly with but there are plenty of homing attacks etc. that act just like it

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"Homing Attack = Portal to Hell"

Yeah. Clearly. Obviously.

Lich dodges Absorption then. GG lol.

"he dodges" isn't an argument at all, especially when Alex has never seen this.

 

[Schnee_One]

Dodging an attack that forms inside your eternal organs, okay

Unless he can somehow rip apart his own body to dodge it

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The point is dodging is not an argument. It isn't a counter to an attack, especially not one they've never encountered that works on characters who have dodged homing attacks before.

Does Mercer have anything else to counter being pulled into Hell?

 

[Schnee_One]

Also fun fact

I just now remembered Alex can actually rip apart and reconsume himself and he actually does that to vehicles.

Nevermind then, guess he can consume

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Okay. That... isn't really new info. I've been giving the benefit of the doubt on everything you've said, it's just that nothing you've said conclusively gives a victory for Mercer. It allows him to possibly take down Lich, even though Lich can feasibly take down Mercer with the same difficulty, but nothing bypasses Lich's immortality.

 

[Schnee_One]

The point is dodging is not an argument. It isn't a counter to an attack, especially not one they've never encountered that works on characters who have dodged homing attacks before.

Does Mercer have anything else to counter being pulled into Hell?

Yes it is absolutely a counter, this is common sense

Someone makes an attack, and you use said mobility you yourself have to avoid the attack or use any of your abilities to implant yourself somewhere to stop this, he can also tell said attack before it happens due to his enhanced senses

So yes, it is an argument, he can also impale himself into the ground or even spread his own biomass out

 

[Schnee_One]

Okay. That... isn't really new info. I've been giving the benefit of the doubt on everything you've said, it's just that nothing you've said conclusively gives a victory for Mercer. It allows him to possibly take down Lich, even though Lich can feasibly take down Mercer with the same difficulty, but not bypasses Lich's immortality.

Not sure what you mean it isn't new, no one brought it up until now

Type 4 isn't helpful, it's effectively a stronger version of Type 2 that makes your body stronger

Type 8 is being brought back from death by a higher power which is not Type 4 but Type 8, which isn't on his profile

By the way, don't want to cause a shistorm but

1. You say Alex can't beat his immortality

2. You know Alex's regen is limited

Did you make this thinking you knew the victor before the match even started?

 

[Schnee_One]

Oh it was a suggestion

Ignore the latter part of my post muh bad

Anyway, gotta sleep

 

[DeathNoodles]

I'm not voting yet, but I'm here to say this:

Apparently, Mercer can control all traces of the Blacklight Virus (he is the Blacklight Virus) in existence down to the the molecular level, making his Biological Manipulation at the molecular level. When he consumes stuff, they evidently become a part of him due to him absorbing the , thus became a part of the Blacklight Virus (we don't know the exact mechanics of how he consumes stuff, but we do know they become a part of him using common sense). Through that, it should be possible for Mercer to take out characters with Mid-High Regenerationn or even perhaps with High Regenerationn (though only if the Regenerationn is capped at the molecular level).

Mercer might not be able to regenerate at such levels due to the past idea of him having High Regenerationn being rejected (his regen feats contradicting the molecular stuff most likely), but there is still the fact that Mercer can perform biological manipulation at the molecular level. He can also perform limited matter manipulation as well, due to being able to absorb clothes, and replicate the electronic devices he has absorbed. So his consume ability should be a factor for this fight.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

> Did you make this thinking you knew the victor before the match even started?

No, and to clear up anything- this was suggested to me a bit after the Lich was added by someone (I forget who) in chat. I also don't have a particular favor to either character, I've interacted with EtG much more recently, but I find Alex Mercer consistently being a really cool character. I actually convinced a friend to make him up as a superhero for Champions, a tabletop RPG based around Superheroes. I chose Spawn, if anyone is curious.

> Yes it is absolutely a counter, this is common sense

No, it isn't. Portals are something Mercer has no experience with whatsoever, and the portals have worked on people experienced in countering homing attacks. Additionally, Mercer would have to dodge them for a day to have won- this seems like a near impossibility unless Mercer has the power to instinctively dodge all attacks (don't remember which one, I think Whis has it?)

> Dodging an attack that forms inside your eternal organs, okay

The Lich has no "eternal" organs. What even is this.

> Type 4 isn't helpful, it's effectively a stronger version of Type 2 that makes your body stronger

"4: Immortality via godhood, or protection from a deity: A character that was either granted immortality by a god"

Nothing about the above implies it is merely an improved form of Type 2, which is just resisting attacks (a la Berserker Armor). However, I agree, this would also classify as Type 8. So long as you understand the methodology of Lich's immortality. It is both. Please, no headcanon-esque descriptions of powers. Type 4 is literally protection from a deity, which is what the Lich has. I'll talk to Kalt about adding Type 8 if it will make things easier for people to understand, but that immortality is on his page.

Now I, too, should sleep. You'll know whether or not I was successful in achieving sleep in a few hours if I come back lol. Night folks.

 

[Schnee_One]

Eh **** it

Lich FRA

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Mercer FRA

 

[Schnee_One]

There aren't any votes for Mercer, he can't consume him and likely gets BFRd

 

[Yobo_Blue]

>Looks at OP

Are you sure?

 

[Schnee_One]

Yes

They are based off my reasoning

To which, I literally voted against Mercer

 

[The_Wright_Way]

There aren't any votes for Mercer, he can't consume him and likely gets BFRd

Only he can consume him because he's made of bone, which he can absorb. He absorbs Lich, Lich respawns in Bullet Hell, Lich attempts to drag him to Bullet Hell with portal, portal gets dodged thanks to enhanced senses and Mercer rooting himself to the ground. Good Game.

 

[Kaltias]

Actually, the Lich at his core is made of bullets

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I mean, Mercer eats people, armor, weapons, clothes, and all