• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Uncompositing the Dragon Ball Cosmology

Status
Not open for further replies.
pineappleman said:
9d8f4e51c7aa1d9fd45544ee9aa39a733d98f6ca.jpg
1e520562de9594fa615f543d735ce2825f40636br1-630-630v2_hq.jpg
Screenshot_61.png

Sinec the author describes non canon work (GT/movies) as parallel worlds, and we learn that these parallel worlds exist in Super and follow the many worlds interpretation, there is no reason for a composite cosmology to not exist and so I disagree with the OP.
Click to expand...
This has been discussed in Page 2, and the scan you used to 'debunk' MWI in DB wasn't even used as evidence
I kindly ask the tagged mods to give their opinions, because DB discussions are plagued with goldfish memories and we'll be looping our way to page 16 at this rate.
 
How the Wiki currently views Future Trunks's dialogue is that the difference between every single atom deciding whether or not to move in a specific direction creates another parallel world, lending itself to the many-worlds theory. However, given the context (being Gohan asking if Trunks could travel further into the past and destroy the Androids before they even awakened) and further information revealed by Super, rather than everything conceivable action and inaction creating parallel worlds, parallel worlds are explicitly and exclusively created when Time Machines are used to rewrite the course of history.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
How the Wiki currently views Future Trunks's dialogue is that the difference between every single atom deciding whether or not to move in a specific direction creates another parallel world, lending itself to the many-worlds theory. However, given the context (being Gohan asking if Trunks could travel further into the past and destroy the Androids before they even awakened) and further information revealed by Super, rather than everything conceivable action and inaction creating parallel worlds, parallel worlds are explicitly and exclusively created when Time Machines are used to rewrite the course of history.
Click to expand...
Yeah; otherwise the characters being surprised by the existence of a new time ring for a new timeline would make zero sense. Billions of time rings would be created all the time if alternate timelines kept popping into existence after every choice or action.
 
Damage3245 said:
Yeah; otherwise the characters being surprised by the existence of a new time ring for a new timeline would make zero sense. Billions of time rings would be created all the time if alternate timelines kept popping into existence after every choice or action.
Click to expand...
No, no, no, see, Gowasu was expecting 10,000 Time Rings, but he found 10,004.
 
Damage3245 said:
Yeah; otherwise the characters being surprised by the existence of a new time ring for a new timeline would make zero sense. Billions of time rings would be created all the time if alternate timelines kept popping into existence after every choice or action.
Click to expand...
Precisely. We are given an explicit mechanism for how timelines are created. We are given an explicit number of how many timelines exist. We have characters expressing surprise when new ones are added. The movies and GT do not fit into this paradigm, you have to perform a wide range of argumentative acrobatics to try and get around this, for the sole purpose of attempting to place a square peg in a round hole for battleboarding purposes. This is the exact opposite of the kind of thing we should accept on the wiki.
 
n3bcRnN.png

Huh. Weird.

en.dragon-ball-official.com

[How Do Time Machines Work? Asking an Expert about Time Travel in Dragon Ball] | DRAGON BALL OFFICIAL SITE

Around the beginning of Dragon Ball's Cell arc, a mysterious young man appears b
en.dragon-ball-official.com en.dragon-ball-official.com
Here is the link to the entire article.

Nukki and Professor Futamase go back and forth on various topics revolving around astrophysics, relativity, and theoretical physics; like quantum mechanics and positioning, black holes and gravitational time dilation, negative mass, the speed of light, creating shortcuts that bend and rip through space-time, etc.—all real world science and its applications in, mainly, the real world and the future of science in the real world, tangentially linked to the time travel mechanics of Dragon Ball.

If this is to be accepted, then everything before Dyspo is accepted to be sub-liminal in speed, and Dyspo-level characters are accepted as having Time Travel.
 
Yeah... Instead of people just voting on them being considered alternate timelines, I'd like to see them try and refute the evidence presented up above.

@Nullflowerblush I like how that article completely confirms that it is the time travel that creates alternate timelines:

Even within Dragon Ball, Trunks altered his universe's history slightly by going back to the past to discover the Androids' weakness. It's this process that gives rise to multiple futures, i.e., parallel worlds.
Click to expand...
 
@pineappleman;

Focus:

RHJ9yrM.png


The part at the bottom of that section looks like it's just talking about the real world, not Dragon Ball.

He doesn't say "Even if the characters never step foot in a time machine", he says "even if you never step foot in a time machine." He's asking generally, about the real world.
 
Damage3245 said:
@pineappleman;

Focus:

RHJ9yrM.png


The part at the bottom of that section looks like it's just talking about the real world, not Dragon Ball.

He doesn't say "Even if the characters never step foot in a time machine", he says "even if you never step foot in a time machine." He's asking generally, about the real world.
Click to expand...
How about you reread Futamase's answers, and realize that his answers apply to both the real world and Dragon Ball simultaneously?
Screenshot_147.png
 
pineappleman said:
How about you reread Futamase's answers, and realize that his answers apply to both the real world and Dragon Ball simultaneously?
Click to expand...
You're just assuming that his last statement applies to Dragon Ball when it doesn't look like that at all to me.

Do you have any supporting evidence from any piece of Dragon Ball canon that choices and actions spawn countless new timelines all the time?

Because everything from the manga and the graph in that interview leads me to believe that it is just time travel that creates alternate worlds.
 
The articles presents, like, eighty different possible interpretations.
At this time, we've confirmed that speeding up and slowing down the flow of time is possible. We can't manipulate it to a great extent yet, but we're able to speed it up and slow it down by a tiny fraction, which involves both the speed of light and gravity.
Click to expand...
The problem is travelling backwards in time—that's the one we haven't figured out yet. However, there's nothing to prove we can't. It's theorized that if you take an extremely small object, say, a fundamental particle, it may be possible to send it back in time.
Click to expand...
It could either be a craft that's capable of surpassing the speed of light, or a physical space that bends space-time and creates a 'shortcut' through it.
Click to expand...
In the real world, it's theorized that we could create a sort of tunnel to the past. There are currently people researching what type of energy would be necessary for that to be possible.
Click to expand...
The concept of parallel worlds originates from the study of quantum mechanics. It says that at this moment, there are infinite universes that exist, and each one of them contains one 'you'. So if there were, say, 10 universes, then you'd simultaneously exist in all of them.
Click to expand...
That's right. If you successfully travelled to the past then attempted to return back to the point in time you started from, the universe you arrive to would not be your original one, but a parallel world where you had travelled to the past. You'd essentially be in a new universe with a different history.
Click to expand...
So just to clarify, even if you never step foot in a time machine, the decisions you make from moment-to-moment spawn new universes...?!
Click to expand...
——Listening to everything you've spoken about so far, I thought of something else I'd like to ask you about. After his battle with Frieza, Goku travels to Planet Yardrat, where he learns how to use Instant Transmission. I have a feeling that Instant Transmission works in a similar way to a time machine, but what do you think?

Prof. Futamase: It's exactly the same. If you interpret Instant Transmission as movement faster than the speed of light, then Planet Yardrat must've found a way to overcome the gravitational restraints.
Click to expand...
Okay, only eight.
Instant Transmission is Time Travel.
 
pineappleman said:
How about you reread Futamase's answers, and realize that his answers apply to both the real world and Dragon Ball simultaneously?
Screenshot_147.png
Click to expand...
How about you realize that Futamase isn't an authority on Dragon Ball canon and he's only being interviewed to give real-world explanations about the physics involved here?

You do realize he can say something that's contradictory to the Dragon Ball canon?

In no world are we going to take his words over what the original manga tells us.
 
Damage3245 said:
You're just assuming that his last statement applies to Dragon Ball when it doesn't look like that at all to me.
Click to expand...
And you're just purposefully feigning ignorance by trying to act like the answers of the Professor explicitly brought to explain time travel and parallel worlds in Dragon Ball (hint, the name of the article is literally 'Asking an Expert about Time Travel in Dragon Ball')
Damage3245 said:
Do you have any supporting evidence from any piece of Dragon Ball canon that choices and actions spawn countless new timelines all the time?

Because everything from the manga and the graph in that interview leads me to believe that it is just time travel that creates alternate worlds.
Click to expand...
This piece right here is just hilarious, because you've literally dismissed every single piece of evidence in the manga provided in this 8 page thread, evidence from the author, evidence from movie guidebooks, and have you yourself brought up NOTHING as evidence to the contrary other than the time rings, which we AGAIN have brought evidence against from the show itself that you once again chose to dismiss

We literally have every possible piece of supplementary evidence backing our viewpoint up while you have zilch, don't try to paint it any other way.
 
pineappleman said:
And you're just purposefully feigning ignorance by trying to act like the answers of the Professor explicitly brought to explain time travel and parallel worlds in Dragon Ball (hint, the name of the article is literally 'Asking an Expert about Time Travel in Dragon Ball')

This piece right here is just hilarious, because you've literally dismissed every single piece of evidence in the manga provided in this 8 page thread, evidence from the author, evidence from movie guidebooks, and have you yourself brought up NOTHING as evidence to the contrary other than the time rings, which we AGAIN have brought evidence against from the show itself that you once again chose to dismiss

We literally have every possible piece of supplementary evidence backing our viewpoint up while you have zilch, don't try to paint it any other way.
Click to expand...
What pieces of evidence from the manga?

I'm aware of the evidence you've claimed from the author and the guidebooks, but what evidence from the manga are you referring to?
 
Damage3245 said:
What pieces of evidence from the manga?

I'm aware of the evidence you've claimed from the author and the guidebooks, but what evidence from the manga are you referring to?
Click to expand...
I believe he is referring to Pilaf referring to "all different kinds of futures".

To his credit, there are at least two different futures.
 
Hypothetically, if the many-worlds interpretation holds true, why exactly would the world of the original series and the world of the TV anime share cosmologies? There are countless different preexisting parallel worlds and an endless number of possible structures and cosmologies and mechanics. Hell, within individual universes, there exists multiple different dimensions with unique mechanics and spatiotemporal structures. For all we know, the two could be literal polar opposites. The two existing as parallel worlds amidst an infinite number of infinitely variable worlds is the furthest thing from proof of shared cosmologies.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

LuffyRuffy46307
  • Locked
Dragon Ball Special Addition Ki
Replies
19
Views
1K
Damage3245
Damage3245
Ednaxel2
  • Locked
Dragon Ball Toei: Bits & Bobs
Replies
16
Views
2K
Ednaxel2
Ednaxel2
Killerdrone123
  • Locked
To be canon or not to be that is the question.A Dragon ball Super revision
2 3 4
Replies
152
Views
11K
AwkguyDB
AwkguyDB
Omegabronic
  • Locked
Dragon Ball's Main Cannon Timeline number downgrade
4 5 6
Replies
230
Views
17K
IdiosyncraticLawyer
IdiosyncraticLawyer
LuffyRuffy46307
  • Locked
Dragon Ball Cosmology Canon
5 6 7
Replies
262
Views
21K
Damage3245
Damage3245
Back
Top