Lordhesperus
He/Him- 86
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my vote is for Gojo.
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Übel vs Satoru Gojo (24-12-0)
- Thread starter Shadow_x007x
- Start date
Catbowtie
Any/All- 1,021
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Gojo is massively more skilled than Ubel. Even when his Infinity was cut off with Sukuna's 1st (I think) Domain Expansion, he was still able to hold his own (somewhat. Sukuna still diced him). Gojo not having Infinity being negated doesn't mean he automatically loses. He still has Blue, Red. He still can Teleport if he wants. Because of SBA, this is Shinjuku Gojo. He is in a completely different mindset than the ****boy Gojo that went against Jogo. Still cocky, sure, but I don't think he'd simply stand there and let Ubel dura neg subjective reality slash him. I saw in the other messages that apparently Reelseiden travels a distance, so Gojo could just dodge by literally just moving around, then use Blue to pull Ubel in and genuinely paste her with a single punch.
Gojo FRA.
Gojo FRA.
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So you say she has problems with range, yet actively give an example of her instantly bisecting a tower?
It isn't eight residential stories fyi, the floor they were on alone is like 4-5x their height at minimum.
If you're taking it as 8 floors, that alone would make the range of her attacks 42m if it was simply 3x, 4x would be 56m, and that's assuming average height of 175cm. The starting distance is 50m. He's almost certainly in range if we're using current Ubel.
They start in view of each other as per SBA, literally the rules.
It isn't inconsistent, there's nowhere for him to hide right away, he starts in view, he isn't obscured. It isn't like he starts half way behind a tree or something.
This argument makes no sense, by the literal rules of the wiki, she can do so with zero issues right away.
Not an argument. At all, we're talking about a character with duraneg, she'd bisect someone like Frieza too if given a chance, that do be how duraneg works.
They've shown high speed combat before, moving all around. Not frequently, it depends on the character, but Ubel is a first class mage, and is quite good getting up on people's asses, only made worse given she now has actual hefty range and on sight incap.
So? Yes characters make forcefields and can amp their stats with mana. Why is using their abilities somehow a detriment? This isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing they actively do this?
That is cool and fine and also she has long range duraneg, how tough they are don't matter.
This is a legit non-argument. They start in view, she can instantly paralyze him to where he can't move at all. He's actively less mobile because he can't move at all. When at worst she only needs to take one step to bisect him.
Frieren characters are also mobile, what are you talking about? We see Frieren move around just fine doing high speed yap while fighting Denken for example while dodging a bunch of attacks. This also doesn't even matter because speed is equal, being more acrobatic ain't gonna cut it if they cover the same distance for the same time. Except she can just stun him.
This also doesn't matter because Ubel's got enough range as of a year after becoming a first class mage, to just strike him from the starting distance, or at least, do so after literally a few steps forward.
Hinging a section of your reply on mobility, against a character who paralyses on sight, in which according to SBA they start in plain view of each other, isn't very telling.
Literally not a good thing. He starts with anything that isn't as quick as Ubel looking at him or doing a gesture and he dies. Having a bunch of options, some of which aren't as quick as her own or won't immediately kill her, just means he dies because he picked wrong. Contrary to her where she only actually has one offensive option.
He reinforces, and he dies, literally one of the things she's explicitly stated time and time again to complete nullify.
Ubel has range on her attacks, why are we just ignoring this. This isn't exam Ubel being used.
Literally nobody has who she didn't actively want to live. every single character otherwise has been bisected cleanly. I just checked, every time they were diced to bits. It's only the hunter dude, who wasn't sliced in half, and we know why she didn't do there. Sense, bandits, the instructor (literally on accident), literally herself, etc, everytime they got hit by her slash, they were cleaved in hald.
One fringe case, is not "inconsistent".
Durability negation. His durability is a complete nonfactor. His ass could be Goku, it wouldn't matter.
It isn't inconsistent in regards to nullification, it's strictly based solely off her mental image.
It's actually explained in pretty good detail. Multiple times. The standards are indeed unclear, not because they're limited though, but because it's way to broad.
I don't know why you'd even say this, if she thinks she can, she will. Even if there's absolute laws, she will reduce them to nothing and bypass it completey. This is flatout stated.
There's no reason Gojo would be exempt, there's nothing about him that at a glance would make her go "oh yeah I 100% can't cut that". He would have to sit down and explain to her why she isn't supposed to do it, and then pray her dumbass gets it and doesn't just go "But I can see like 5ft in front of me?".
Literally bisected a tower in 8 spots simultaneously with a gesture.
Speaking of which, that should probably be explained better, one slash equated to 8 in different places, she's evidently grown.
Lad I don't quite you think you realize what duraneg is.
And given one attack can equate to multiple now, at different points, bisecting his attacks, along with him, shouldn't be that hard. It's not like his attacks have any defense against subjective reality yap.
I don't expect you to respond, but that doesn't detract from the fact almost your entire post is just "nope dont count", stuff is accepted, don't like it, go get it changed.
She has the range, she has the abilities, the abilities are accepted to work a certain way. You literally brought up Gojo's durability against durability negation. You mention how it's inconsistent, yet there has never been a case she can a foe she wanted actively dead and it didn't straight up bisect them, the fact she's exponentially better now, just makes that worse. You talk about range, but she literally has the range to hit him from 50m, or so close that it legit doesn't change much as Gojo's immediate thought isn't going to be "oh shit I need to get away as soon as possible!", which is gonna be harder in speed equal or while paralyzed. Her attacks come out at a gesture so it isn't like a quick draw is something she'd lose. She's more liable to flatout murder compared to him as a lead. And Gojo doesn't resist any of her stuff, which despite statements otherwise, get explained well enough and are anything but inconsistent (as this would imply it's failed at times against things she can envision, it hasn't).
She has duraneg. She has sufficient range. She has on sight incap. SBA is with both fighters in view. She has subjective reality that effects both cause and effect, nullfies, and more.
If these are true, which they are, your entire post falls apart.
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glaze battle
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Lad, she slashes once, and he's dead. Her slashes don't "travel" in a conventional sense, what needs to happen, is she has to make a motion of her weapon (or hands, she can actually do it without a weapon), she has to swing, or more precisely, make a cutting/slicing motion, but once she swings, what's done is done as long as he is within her attack range trajectory (And even the trajectory matters less now).
She can attack multiple spots at the same time with a single attack. If she negates infinity, he just gets bisected, he isn't coming back from that, that's basically how he canonically died.
Being skilled doesn't matter, she looks at him, and he's unable to move. She lifts her hand, and he gets cut in half. How will being skilled help him? They aren't throwing hands, her attacks aren't exactly visible or tangible. She basically has Sukuna's slop, but with an easy way to land it right from the start and extra hax tacked on to make sure it super makes him dead.
Because this seemingly hasn't been posted enough. She tilts her hand like 40 degrees here.
Instantly, in 8 different spots, 8 duraneg subjective reality slashes spawn, at the same time, from a single tilt of her wrist. Gojo needs to kill her before she does this. The fact she has on sight incap that works as long as his full body is in her view, is just kind of damning.
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It literally is.
This literally never didn't happen. The only time it didn't happen, was against someone she didn't want dead, and was aiming for incap at most. That isn't a case of "oh, this doesn't actually bisect dudes", it's her pulling her blows as to not do that.
We're also not using Exam Ubel, there's been over a year in story since that point. She has substantially better range now.
This is what happens to those subjected to the attack. They just cut sliced apart. Gojo can't survive that, it's literally how he died.
Unless the fight starts well over 50m away, more like 70-80m away, and Gojo knows her ass is bypassing infinity so he goes all out and bombards her while staying wya out of range, he just gets bisected.
Edit: As an fyi, Exam Ubel only got a range of 5m, if we were using her, the dogass range arguments would be valid.
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- Thread starter
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I've started accepting votes, but I'm not sure if I missed anyone's comments. You can show which character you agree with more by replying to this post.
Bobsican
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Yeah, FRA votes that don't even rely on an argument (at least from here and above) don't count to say the least per general site policy on matches, so that'd lower this more to a 10-8.
Also voting for Gojo while we're on it for the reasons given by Moritzva, TBH this also seems to be a mismatch anyways as regardless of the conclusion it's extremely one-sided.
Also voting for Gojo while we're on it for the reasons given by Moritzva, TBH this also seems to be a mismatch anyways as regardless of the conclusion it's extremely one-sided.
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i went to sleep and 5 pages
amazing
I've read the brunt of the main arguments and my vote still stands
amazing
I've read the brunt of the main arguments and my vote still stands
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You've got to be joking especially since the votes you are trying to throw away include mine, eldmade's, greatjedi, shadow & bernkastell. Those initial votes are from those of us who knew about Ubel's slop from the beginning.
On the other hand, bernkastell is counted twice so unless they're two separate individuals with the same name, one should be removed which makes the tally 15:8
Moritzva reasons which included bringing up durability against someone whose main slop is duraneg, speed in a speed equal match, as well as spouting stuff that indicates he doesn't know the character he's arguing against? You guys clearly aren't even reading
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Yeah, My vote is still on Ubel
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It seems that Sorganeil working on Gojo has been accepted, so I vote Ubel
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The only one of these scans that means anything here is the Sukuna one.
Since the other times, he was against people VASTLY inferior to him in speed and catching them off-guard.
Meanwhile, someone like Toji was handling his Blue pretty easily, and even reacted to his very first usage of Red at near point-blank range.
Sukuna also didn't really have much problem dealing with them the majority of the time.
With the starting distance, I don't doubt that equalized speed would give Ubel the opportunity to nullify Blue and Red with her ability. Especially so if Gojo stays at range.
I mean, I suppose it isn't a guaranteed thing to happen, so Gojo probably does have win-cons if he can catch her off guard with one of those.
I'll retract my statement of this being a stomp. I vote for Ubel.
My main reasons would be:
- Ubel's main shtick ignores durability via subjective reality, which is not something that Infinity would really defend against. This makes Gojo's physicality pretty irrelevant.
- Ubel has viable options to negate Gojo's long-range attacks (Red & Blue). This would mean it'd be harder for Gojo to catch her with one of those. Gojo also is at an extreme disadvantage if the gets closer to Ubel, since any slash from her could end his life if she has him in her sights.
- Speed equalized is simply not great for Gojo. His mobility can't be capitalized on when both he and the opponent are at equal speed. While that's one of his biggest factors in JJK, it's meaningless in this match.
- Gojo's versatility ends up being a disadvantage, because it means much of what he starts with will just result in him dying. Like, if he was to go for CQC, he'd get killed. If he even did any maneuver to try and get close, he gets killed. The only thing that would instantly win him the fight off the bat would be a Domain Expansion, but that is extremely unlikely to be his first move.
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Ubel FRA
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 17,041
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Ubel SR should work on Gojo, just as the Comedian is stated to work on him by the narrative itself.
Gojo's Infinity blocking SR-based abilities is neither shown in the series nor implied anywhere. Claiming that Infinity can block anything is an NLF and a headcanon, which goes against what is narratively stated in the series.
Other arguments were addressed by others above for Ubel
So I'm still Voting for Ubel.
Gojo's Infinity blocking SR-based abilities is neither shown in the series nor implied anywhere. Claiming that Infinity can block anything is an NLF and a headcanon, which goes against what is narratively stated in the series.
Other arguments were addressed by others above for Ubel
So I'm still Voting for Ubel.
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Yeah because of the fact Gojo in character doesn't instantly throw out Infinity and he has no logical reason to assume he needs to do it early on in this fight, it opens the door to him getting shredded like pulled pork because more often than not he'll try to close the distance and he ends up meeting his bisected fate earlier than when he fought Sukuna for the last time. I'm not saying he doesn't have the capability to realize he needs to , but odds are favoring him getting shredded before realizing that is a necessity in this fight, considering speed is equalized, giving Ubel more than enough chances to counter and shred him.
That plus some of what Phoenks and others said, I'm voting for Ubel.
That plus some of what Phoenks and others said, I'm voting for Ubel.
Spinoirr
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Nah I just think she wins
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I would probaly say Gojo. I still seriously doubt Ubel could even cut through infinity itself in the first place.
Also why are people assuming Gojo just wouldn't use one of his one shot moves too? lol.
Gojo wins most times out of 10, Ubel would have to first ignore infinity, be lucky enough to attack first and be lucky enough to one shot Gojo. People have also commented on Ubel's range being very bad so Gojo can just out range her.
Going Gojo.
Also why are people assuming Gojo just wouldn't use one of his one shot moves too? lol.
Gojo wins most times out of 10, Ubel would have to first ignore infinity, be lucky enough to attack first and be lucky enough to one shot Gojo. People have also commented on Ubel's range being very bad so Gojo can just out range her.
Going Gojo.
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Voting Ubel because I like a woman who can ******* kill me.
And I can tell you didn't read everything. Uh, hello? Paralysis and sealing which also bypasses Infinity? The scans showing that her range is definitely tens of meters? Good thing there's a CRT to give her longer range and law (potentially logic) manipulation right now.
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Funny how Gojo votes are anime-only people who still thinks Ubel range sucks
Spinoirr
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Ubel FRA, the arguments for Gojo just don't convince me she doesn't cut his [REDACTED] clean in half from the 50 meter range threshold.
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The reasons they gave were objectively wrong. "It don't count" isn't a reason. She has the range. "Stun isn't consistent" isn't good enough, not only is that not actualy true, they start in view. "Her ability is inconsistent", it has literally never once failed to cut through what she could visualize cutting, and every time it hit someone she wanted dead in range, they got bisected despite the contrary claims (literally every time), etc. Almost every argument is literally just not true.
He's more skilled, and does have better mobility in normal circumstances is true, but all the Ubel undermining is just straight up not real.
Which she does, if one does not like that, go give Gojo resistance first, or alternatively go get her slop removed. Otherwise "I don't think" isn't a proper rebuttal.
Bro did not read the thread.... The scan has been posted like at least 5 times now.
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Honestly why don't you just quote the profile every single time to them?
"Tens of Meters with magic (She sliced a tall prison tower to pieces with Reelseiden)"
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Wait, the range shit is already there? I didn't even notice. Why did they argue that her range sucks when the profile in its current state says it doesn't?
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Honestly? Because most dudes don't click links so just dropping it and showing it without that need, to where if they actually go through the thread, they will, 100% be forced to see it, prevents that.
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Fair.
On the side note, I was thinking about using Warhammer Fantasy to make a match... then I remembered anyone who resists what's at play here also resists magic as a whole, so the only matches would be melee. Against ******' Warhammer Fantasy of all skillwank verses!
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After reading 5 pages, I'm going with Ubel FRA.
Leaving aside how Gojo's initial move changes every time they are told it doesn't work: from Gojo standing still because "the attack won't work on him", to "he'd evade an attack that he doesn't know can get past his infinity", Ubel's subjective reality should give him the victory just by her imagining she can cut Gojo.
I don't know how people think Gojo's infinity can overcome something that literally ignores anything the user doesn't care about.
Btw, for those looking for a good match for Ubel, Iihiko Shishime's abilities work pretty similar, by ignoring anything he doesn't recognize. Though maybe his insane Supernatural Luck would make the match a stomp, sadly
Leaving aside how Gojo's initial move changes every time they are told it doesn't work: from Gojo standing still because "the attack won't work on him", to "he'd evade an attack that he doesn't know can get past his infinity", Ubel's subjective reality should give him the victory just by her imagining she can cut Gojo.
I don't know how people think Gojo's infinity can overcome something that literally ignores anything the user doesn't care about.
Btw, for those looking for a good match for Ubel, Iihiko Shishime's abilities work pretty similar, by ignoring anything he doesn't recognize. Though maybe his insane Supernatural Luck would make the match a stomp, sadly
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After reading arguments of both sides in this thread I believe Ubel would take this comfortably for reasons such as SR and durability negation.
Gojo's wincons are too situational and not reliable and that pretty much seals the deal. Ubel seems like the very Likely winner in most random encounters so very inclined on Voting Ubel
Gojo's wincons are too situational and not reliable and that pretty much seals the deal. Ubel seems like the very Likely winner in most random encounters so very inclined on Voting Ubel
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Someone who just makes visible or blatant defenses would be sufficient to at least hinder her ability to some degree.
If you put a wall between her and her foe, she's gonna go "Oh there's a wall, I need to cut the wall before I can cut them because they're behind it" if the defense is blatant enough. Even if she can cut the wall just fine (she can), it still acts as an obstacle.
Gojo just gets ****** here because his defense wouldn't even be understood or perceived as being a thing to begin with (She's a lil....) and being bisected is like, literally how he died. Ubel basically just has more broken ye simutaneously more situational WCS except she does it because she dumb af.
Arkenis
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Compared to Gojo's range it does suck.
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They start 50m apart, not 20km apart.
This is like arguing one dude has 500km range, so this other dude with 100km is bad, despite the fact they start like 10m apart. Who has the better range means jackshit, they're both in range of each other. Why does it even matter? It's a non-factor.
