Übel vs Satoru Gojo (24-12-0)

[LIFE_OF_KING]

What does others dodging it have to do with with Ubel's SR that can ignore causal relationships?

?????
Ubel is someone who is ignore basic reason, if she thinks her spell can cut flesh, it will cut flesh no matter how durable. That's the point of her spell
She can't ignore space, like distance. She won't hit Gojo and her slash will never reach him, that's the point.
She does not even know that infinite is there

Literally stood still against Jogo till he started wailing on him and toys with those weaker than him. The only time he actively tries to dodge is after he finds out they have a way to counter infinity.

Against a fodder he started with a long range BLUE and destroyed both arms and legs
Against Hanami he started with a PURPLE from longe range
Against Toji (first round) he tried to keep distance with MAXIMUM BLUE
Against Toji (second round) he used RED feom far away
Against Sukuna he used PURPLE from 4 km away

Gojo: confident infinity will stop the attack of a fodder, f*cks around and finds out. Depending on how close the slash is by the time he notices it ignored infinity, it's too late to dodge. There's also sorganeil

Cool headcanon

 

[Zabazab]

Reelseiden absolutely is ignoring Infinity, because Übel can visualize doing so. It's incredibly simple. It does not matter that logically she should not be able to reach him, even if he gave a full breakdown on Infinity's mechanics to her she could still ignore it. Infinity's distortion of space isn't obvious in appearance, i.e a wall that blocks attacks. It just seems like air. Übel will just rely on her intuition and ignore Infinity.

And if you can't understand why her subjective reality magic that can ignore causality is more than just durability negation: Sorganeil ends the fight as soon as she uses it.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

?????
Ubel is someone who is ignore basic reason, if she thinks her spell can cut flesh, it will cut flesh no matter how durable. That's the point of her spell
She can't ignore space, like distance. She won't hit Gojo and her slash will never reach him, that's the point.
She does not even know that infinite is there

Because she didn't know, she was able to cut Gojo because of her ignorance, she ignored the infinite that stood between her and Gojo.

 

[ShionAH]

She cannot visualize her attack cutting through Infinity since she doesnt know it exists and cannot see it

She visualizes her attack cutting Gojo, so a attack that can cut Gojo appears. Nothing about the slash says it can ignore infinity or cannot be slowed, it will just be a cut that can kill Gojo if it touches him

 

[karo_senpaii]

Okay my two cents on this. I think gojo wins simply because ubel can't touch him. Thing is ubel slash isn't some tehcnique that spawns on what she sees. otherwise defensive magic would still be useless as she would just spawn her cut on the person. So it travels, and since it travels here is how it goes:
1. Ubel sees gojo and thinks yeah sure she can cut him and as such she can actually cut him.
2. Problem is infinity is protecting him. Ubel doesn't know this so if she doesn't know she doesn't even believe she can cut infinity coz well she doesn't know it existence. Hence her slash keeps slowing down and as such she is confused.
3. Here is the part that makes it tricky. Gojo will start ranting immediately and explain which makes it worse coz now ubel has to believe she can cut through infinite space. In fact gojo explanation will just make it more confusing, halving numbers and bla bla bla. Not only can ubel not see infinity (an important part of visualizing) but she can barely understand the process and frankly i don't think she has any imaginative feats of thinking she can cut through infinite space.

If freiren supporters can convince me otherwise that stuff like defensive magic is much more complex than limiteless then maybe we have a conversation. But for now gojo wins. I don't even have to mention his wincins

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

If she uses Sorganeil, Gojo can also just spawn blues around her and break her apart

Reelseiden absolutely is ignoring Infinity, because Übel can visualize doing so.

Why excaly can someone even dodge her attacks then? She can visualize cutting anyone, yet people can survive her spell by barely dodging
I don't see how it's not possible to slow down her moves

"But she ignores casuality" on paper is cool, but in reality that means almost nothing.
It still needs to travel, so it's affected by infinite

 

[karo_senpaii]

Because she didn't know, she was able to cut Gojo because of her ignorance, she ignored the infinite that stood between her and Gojo.

dude are you hearing yourself? she needs to think she can cut through infinity to do so. How does she think she can cut something she doesn't know exists?

 

[ShionAH]

Gojo possibly losing because he boasts about his technique is incredibly hilarious

Anyways do yall think Gojo can Socially influence her?

 

[Shadow_x007x]

dude are you hearing yourself? she needs to think she can cut through infinity to do so. How does she think she can cut something she doesn't know exists?

It shouldn't be like that at all, just like she cut Sense's hair because she thought it was just normal hair, not that she had to think she could cut the hair with power because she thought it didn't exist in her logic, so it didn't exist in her concept.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Reelseiden absolutely is ignoring Infinity, because Übel can visualize doing so. It's incredibly simple. It does not matter that logically she should not be able to reach him, even if he gave a full breakdown on Infinity's mechanics to her she could still ignore it. Infinity's distortion of space isn't obvious in appearance, i.e a wall that blocks attacks. It just seems like air. Übel will just rely on her intuition and ignore Infinity.

And if you can't understand why her subjective reality magic that can ignore causality is more than just durability negation: Sorganeil ends the fight as soon as she uses it.

first you have to convince us ubel actually believes she can cut infinite space. Otherwise this would get nowhere. Subjective reality isn't an end all. This is a clear NLF. Show something being ignored on the level or at least close to the level of limitless

 

[BadSystems]

I believe Sorganeil is accepted to have powernull so if he's caught in it, he can't really act, and Infinity might be disabled. Though, not sure if we can equalize Mana and CE.

Though, if Ubel isn't aware of Infinity, Reelseiden might just stop on it, or maybe Ubel has some predisposition about things traveling through space. "

'It's just a few meters, right? It can cross that easily."

Anyways do yall think Gojo can Socially influence her?

Probably not

I'd say Reelseiden is affected by Infinity tbh. If Sorganeil wouldn't seal away CE, it's a stomp for Gojo as Ubel has no wincons. Now, if Gojo for some reason fully explains neutral Infinity to her, it'd pass through yes.

 

[Zabazab]

Why excaly can someone even dodge her attacks then? She can visualize cutting anyone, yet people can survive her spell by barely dodging
I don't see how it's not possible to slow down her moves

Because moving out of the way cannot be overwritten by visualizing, just like a "shield that blocks magic" cannot be overwritten. She will be ignoring the effects originating from Gojo's Infinity through visualization, just as she can ignore the effects of magical nullification originating from Sense's hair or Burg's cloak.

Infinity? What's that? It's just air. Air's everywhere, as if it'd stop Reelseiden.

If she uses Sorganeil, Gojo can also just spawn blues around her and break her apart

It would be sealed by Sorganeil, it isn't just paralysis.

 

[Shmooply]

Gojo possibly losing because he boasts about his technique is incredibly hilarious

Also Go/jo moments before dying:

my vote was a memey one so ill retract it

 

[karo_senpaii]

It shouldn't be like that at all, just like she cut Sense's hair because she thought it was just normal hair, not that she had to think she could cut the hair with power because she thought it didn't exist in her logic, so it didn't exist in her concept.

something was defending the hair. You're thinking of infinity as a cloak around gojo. There is just infinite space between you and gojo. Nothing is protecting him. The travelling slash has to cross the distance or are you suggesting it would spun on gojo?

 

[karo_senpaii]

Because moving out of the way cannot be overwritten by visualizing, just like a "shield that blocks magic" cannot be overwritten. She will be ignoring the effects originating from Gojo's Infinity through visualization, just as she can ignore the effects of magical nullification originating from Sense's hair or Burg's cloak.

Infinity? What's that? It's just air. Air's everywhere, as if it'd stop Reelseiden.


It would be sealed by Sorganeil, it isn't just paralysis.

explain the sealing

 

[karo_senpaii]

If ya'll stop thinking of infinity as a shield then this would be clear.
let me make it simple. Gojo is at point A, Ubel is at point B, there is an infinite distance between them. Now explain how whatever slash ubel visualizes crosses this distance to get to gojo

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Because moving out of the way cannot be overwritten by visualizing

And why space that slows down everything on a atomic level that Ubel is not even aware of can be overwritten?

Infinity? What's that? It's just air. Air's everywhere, as if it'd stop Reelseiden.

You're making a headcanon of what Ubel would think. It's not even air, it's space. Gojo never ever tried to explain using air

would be sealed by Sorganeil, it isn't just paralysis

You can still talk so chants are possible

 

[BadSystems]

Infinity doesn't create an infinite space, it infinitely sub-divides finite space. I think. Regardless, unless Gojo explains it to her it'll probably still affect Reelseiden, so she needs to use Sorganeil.

You can still talk so chants are possible

What would chants do? It seals away their access to mana. If you can't equalize that to CE, then it's a stomp

 

[Arkenis]

With it being 50m distance, is she not gonna be at a range disadvantage? I don't see why Gojo wouldn't just teleport behind her or launch Blue to her limbs and leave her unable to use her spear. Another thing is Six Eyes should see the foreign energy on the spear and know he shouldn't let her get close.

It would be sealed by Sorganeil, it isn't just paralysis.

It's sealing for Magic. Is magic in Frieren the same as Cursed Energy? If not then its not sealing Gojo's curse energy control.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

What would chants do? It seals away their access to mana. If you can't equalize that to CE, then it's a stomp

If you equalize Gojo can read Ubel like a book
If not, so she can't stop his acess to CE

 

[Shadow_x007x]

something was defending the hair. You're thinking of infinity as a cloak around gojo. There is just infinite space between you and gojo. Nothing is protecting him. The travelling slash has to cross the distance or are you suggesting it would spun on gojo?

Furthermore, you said, "Because the people in the story use defensive magic. If it really could do that, Ubel would think that the cut had already reached them." To which Ubel replied that she couldn't because she couldn't imagine herself cutting through defensive magic (however, if the same type of magic was applied to something else, she could easily cut it, thus showing that she could ignore the other side's power by thinking that it didn't exist according to her logic).

I still say the same thing, Ubel doesn't need to cross the infinity because she didn't think there was infinity separating her and Gojo from the beginning, that's why I compared it to Sense's hair, I'm not comparing that cutting Sense's hair allowed him to cross the infinity, I'm saying that she can think of the hair with the power in it as a normal hair.

 

[Chariot190]

Ubel would get ******* memed on, if Gojo wasn't chill.
She isn't chill, she's like working at 11 at all times. Gojo would obliterate bloodlusted but she's just gonna swing once and go "oops I killed him lmao" while he's standing there trying to be cool.

Ubel being a legit dumbass kinda works for her, probably wouldn't even really understand infinity and just go "there's nothing there I don't get it" and swing.

, it's a space that makes the attack infinitely slower to not reach Gojo and not some kind of shield.

Her subjective reality might come into play. From her perception, he's standing right there, she wouldn't realize that she isn't supposed to be able to hit him. She's just go "oh damn, he's right there", and swing, and her blade would connect because that's the reality she envisioned.

She basically just like, wouldn't actually interact with infinity from the start as she wouldn't recognize it's there to interact it with from the beginning.

For reference if this seems kinda NLF, spatial yap isn't exactly a foreign concept to Frieren as a verse, and her magic is supposedly NLF even in context as long as she thinks it's meant to be cut.

 

[BadSystems]

If you equalize Gojo can read Ubel like a book
If not, so she can't stop his acess to CE

Sorganeil is just stare --> paralysis. If it's equalized, he's kind of cooked. Otherwise, it's a stomp for Gojo.

Now, would mana equalize to CE?

 

[karo_senpaii]

Furthermore, you said, "Because the people in the story use defensive magic. If it really could do that, Ubel would think that the cut had already reached them." To which Ubel replied that she couldn't because she couldn't imagine herself cutting through defensive magic (however, if the same type of magic was applied to something else, she could easily cut it, thus showing that she could ignore the other side's power by thinking that it didn't exist according to her logic).

I still say the same thing, Ubel doesn't need to cross the infinity because she didn't think there was infinity separating her and Gojo from the beginning, that's why I compared it to Sense's hair, I'm not comparing that cutting Sense's hair allowed him to cross the infinity, I'm saying that she can think of the hair with the power in it as a normal hair.

are you saying because she does not know infinity is there the slash would not travel from where she is to gojo but will somehow teleport directly to him?

 

[Zabazab]

And why space that slows down everything on a atomic level that Ubel is not even aware of can be overwritten?
You're making a headcanon of what Ubel would think. It's not even air, it's space. Gojo never ever tried to explain using air

What I'm saying is that it's easy for her to think "There's nothing stopping me from cutting this guy.", which is deadly due to her subjective reality.

You can still talk so chants are possible

explain the sealing

Spell of Binding: Sorganeil

It's sealing for Magic. Is magic in Frieren the same as Cursed Energy? If not then its not sealing Gojo's curse energy control.

Jujutsu is basically magic. Curses are a thing in Frieren too as well.

 

[BadSystems]

Her subjective reality might come into play. From her perception, he's standing right there, she wouldn't realize that she isn't supposed to be able to hit him. She's just go "oh damn, he's right there", and swing, and her blade would connect because that's the reality she envisioned.

She basically just like, wouldn't actually interact with infinity from the start as she wouldn't recognize it's there.

For reference if this seems kinda NLF, spatial yap isn't exactly a foreign concept to Frieren as a verse, and her magic is supposedly NLF even in context as long as she thinks it's meant to be cut.

I don't think her not having knowledge of something's existence makes her immediately ignore it. There's some kind of intuition at play here, her subjective reality doesn't cover things she isn't aware of. If Gojo started monologuing about turtles and Achilles and whatnot, then Reelseiden would bypass it because Ubel would have no idea what the **** he was talking about. Otherwise, it's just an Unknown Defensive Spell to her.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

She isn't chill, she's like working at 11 at all times. Gojo would obliterate bloodlusted but she's just gonna swing once and go "oops I killed him lmao" while he's standing there trying to be cool.

He did that once man

 

[Arkenis]

This not knowing infinity is there or not really doesn't matter. Infinity is all around us always, whether we consciously know it or not and Ubel doesn't now have High Uni range so yeah no it still would need to overcome that distance.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

are you saying because she does not know infinity is there the slash would not travel from where she is to gojo but will somehow teleport directly to him?

I'm saying that because she didn't know there was infinity, her cut went to cut Gojo normally as if Gojo had nothing to protect him.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Ubel would get ******* memed on, if Gojo wasn't chill.
She isn't chill, she's like working at 11 at all times. Gojo would obliterate bloodlusted but she's just gonna swing once and go "oops I killed him lmao" while he's standing there trying to be cool.

Ubel being a legit dumbass kinda works for her, probably wouldn't even really understand infinity and just go "there's nothing there I don't get it" and swing.

Her subjective reality might come into play. From her perception, he's standing right there, she wouldn't realize that she isn't supposed to be able to hit him. She's just go "oh damn, he's right there", and swing, and her blade would connect because that's the reality she envisioned.

She basically just like, wouldn't actually interact with infinity from the start as she wouldn't recognize it's there.

For reference if this seems kinda NLF, spatial yap isn't exactly a foreign concept to Frieren as a verse, and her magic is supposedly NLF even in context as long as she thinks it's meant to be cut.

it's still a big NLF and in verse mechanics don't apply. frieiren verse ain't that complex. Let's simply limit her subjective reality to what is shown. Also her Subjective reality specifically applies to cutting stuff and not transversing distances, coz you know infinity isn't a shield but just space.

 

[karo_senpaii]

I'm saying that because she didn't know there was infinity, her cut went to cut Gojo normally as if Gojo had nothing to protect him.

and it never reached coz the distance between them was just too great

 

[Arkenis]

Jujutsu is basically magic. Curses are a thing in Frieren too as well.

Is Magic in Frieren like Cursed Energy? Is magic literally negative emotions?

 

[Shadow_x007x]

and it never reached coz the distance between them was just too great

Subjective Reality will negate that for her and then it will attack Gojo like Gojo without infinity to protect it.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Jujutsu is basically magic. Curses are a thing in Frieren too as well.

Curses in frieren are just magic that humans can't understand and that can affect the body of someone. It's completly different

The curse reversal of Serie could reflect Macht trying to transmute her body, but she couldn't affect objects already turned into gold, like Match's "sword"

 

[Zabazab]

spatial yap isn't exactly a foreign concept to Frieren as a verse

Kind of unrelated but the Demon King just. Being able to sense a disturbance in the ******* space-time continuum was such a jump from what I thought the verse was capable of that I was left in shock.

Is Magic in Frieren like Cursed Energy? Is magic literally negative emotions?

I don't really see the point in saying this, since Cursed Energy isn't literally negative emotions either.

 

[BadSystems]

If we're not equalizing Mana to Cursed Energy it's a stomp

 

[Arkenis]

Subjective Reality will negate that for her and then it will attack Gojo like Gojo without infinity to protect it.

It won't if the extent hasn't been shown to cover bypassing infinite distance.

 

[BadSystems]

Infinity doesn't create infinite distance, it divides finite distance infinitely, but it stops Reelseiden regardless unless Gojo gives Ubel exposition

 

[Arkenis]

Infinity doesn't create infinite distance, it divides finite distance infinitely, but it stops Reelseiden regardless unless Gojo gives Ubel exposition

so infinite distance???

 

[karo_senpaii]

Subjective Reality will negate that for her and then it will attack Gojo like Gojo without infinity to protect it.

NLF. Bring feats of subjective reality on that level

What I'm saying is that it's easy for her to think "There's nothing stopping me from cutting this guy.", which is deadly due to her subjective reality.



Spell of Binding: Sorganeil


Jujutsu is basically magic. Curses are a thing in Frieren too as well.

we aren't equalizing bro. There are 2 energy making up cursed energy. that's negative and positive. Now apply that to frieren verse magic