Type 8 Immortality got out of hand

[DontTalkDT]

I don't quite understand what two parts of that are supposed to mean. Specifically:

and also having other powers that do so but are unrelated to that weakness does not count as well

and

Simply having other form of Immortality not tied to one's powers doesn't necessarily mean this type should apply

What examples are concerned: Faries in Touhou are aspects of nature and birthed from them. The existence of the aspect of nature causes the existence of the corresponding fairy and fairies are well known to resurrect when killed.
As for the other example on the page: AIM Burst was copletly created from the Level Upper Network and would simply be recreated should it be destroyed without the Network being disconnected.

 

[Eficiente]

The first means that other powers (like having many other types of Immortality) don't matter if a character doesn't have those because of the type 8 Immortality. People often claim that a certain way a character must be killed/an exploitable weakness should be something the character is reliant over if it also has a good regen, type 2 Immortality, self-resurrection and the like when those latter powers aren't granted because of that exploitable weakness, meaning that they have nothing to do with it.

The second aims to put a standard over how we could add in type 8 over dozens of things should people feel like it, like characters with type 6 having some already prepared bodies to put themselves on, one could say that they are reliant over the bodies or whatever installation they have prepared for those bodies to exist, as long as those exist they can keep on living, or how many videogame characters can have an item/many times an item that revives them when they die, or even just an item would would constantly heal them. It's not by their own power and they gain benefits from it that helps them stay alive but it's too unworthy.

What examples are concerned: Faries in Touhou are aspects of nature and birthed from them. The existence of the aspect of nature causes the existence of the corresponding fairy and fairies are well known to resurrect when killed.

Well, if I were to see this info in a vacuum w/o this thread I wouldn't think it's type 8 as it's too vague:

Surely it's easier to believe that they being birthed from aspects of nature means "when they were born as babies, it was because of aspects of nature" rather than "their ability to resurrect is caused by the aspects of nature, so reviving it's being said here as being birthed".

"The existence of the aspect of nature causes the existence of the corresponding fairy" seems like just a weakness. If something makes you live, and will kill if it stops existing, and then you have other powers like regen and resurrection, then that's by one's own abilities. The fairies being able to resurrect when killed like you're saying it like it's their own power.

As for the other example on the page: AIM Burst was copletly created from the Level Upper Network and would simply be recreated should it be destroyed without the Network being disconnected.

I figured it was as simply as that but wasn't sure due to the wording the profile went with, I didn't know if "begin existing again" meant as in resurrection or other AIM Burst being sort of created from 0 with no memory of the last one killed, as the profile also doesn't have resurrection or type 4 Immortality.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Ah, ok. I would suggest replacing "do so" with "do grant immortality" for greater clarity.
The second thing sounds very... vague. Like, doesn't it pretty much just say that in some, not further specified cases, this power shouldn't be given?
I get that redundancy should be discouraged, though. I can agree that listing "Resurrection (via pheonix feather), Immortality (Type 8, reliant on the Pheonix Feather)" would be pretty pointless. If that is the main point of that, I would maybe put that a little different. Possibly simply something like:

It is discouraged to list this power if it would be redundant due to the same power already being described in another ability of the profile.

Gotta disagree on the fairies. For a start, fairies aren't born as babies. I don't think male fairies even exist. I'm pretty sure they literally just plop into existence if an aspect of nature that requires a fairy is created. And that's the thing. You can't stop there being a fairy of coldness, just by killing Cirno's physically. Even if you got completely rid of her, as an aspect of nature coldness will produce a fairy. All aspects of nature do. And that fairy will just be Cirno's reborn self. If you wish to claim that the fairies resurrection described on sources is an ability on top of that recreation process you could do so. However, as there never was a clear indication of that, assuming that being an extra ability is an upgrade on speculation.

I think the AIM Burst doesn't have resurrection because a) it's redundant and b) the page was created before that ability existed. Whether the newborn AIM Burst is the same as the old one is a complicated philosophical question regarding identity. I mean, its mind is a mostly emotion-based amalgamation of the subconscious of the people in the Level Upper Network. Whether it even has memories is questionable and if it does, they probably are stored in the Network.
In any case, I would completely ignore the question considering that the people in the verse seem to consider it as the entity restoring itself, instead of a new one spawning.

 

[Eficiente]

So, would you like to quote the proposal I made with those examples and modify it a bit into what it should have?

 

[DontTalkDT]

The examples aren't so important. Include them if you want or not.
What do you think about the change in wording I suggested, though? That's really the only thing I want to address before putting it on the page.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you both for helping out.

 

[Eficiente]

"8: Reliant Immortality: The character gets benefited by 1 or more other types of Immortality as long as a certain being, object, place and/or concept or more may grant them those benefits, losing them otherwise. What exactly a user is reliant over, the benefits given from it, and how the process of the ability operates must be explained. Simply having some weakness that will kill a character when exploited doesn't qualify if it doesn't grant a form of Immortality, and also having other powers that do grant Immortality but are unrelated to that weakness does not count as well. It is discouraged to list this type if it would be redundant due to the same power already being described in another ability of the profile."

It could go like this. Examples I do think are important as people should preferably see profiles that have the ability properly explained (and evidenced but whatever) rather than we listing characters who popularly have the ability if one knows them. As said before people seeing X character reliant on X thing as we have it might had influenced some laziness when adding the power.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I meant that it's not important whether those particular examples are on the page or not. Before we get into an entire CRT regarding those just list different ones.

The text sounds fine like that.

 

[Antvasima]

What DontTalk has accepted can probably be applied.

We should wait for some further staff input though.

 

[Eficiente]

We should wait for some further staff input

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama @SomebodyData @The_real_cal_howard @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Andytrenom @DarkDragonMedeus @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Ogbunabali @Abstractions

What do you think about this?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think DT's proposal is good

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Is somebody here willing to properly apply that please?

 

[AKM sama]

I am fine with this. The original text, while not being wrong, was so brief it got abused and characters got it even when they didn't deserve it.

 

[Elizhaa]

I am also fine with what DontTalkDT agrees. I can add the text updates to the page; edit: that update is done.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. Is there anything left to do here then?

 

[Qawsedf234]

What do you think about this?

We should make it clear that it has to be like a LIch sort of situation. Where the person needs a constant outside source to come back from, rather than a random healing chamber or object.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. What do the rest of you think about Qawsedf234's suggestion?