Two supreme beings fight over control of the Marioverse

[The_Smashor]

Alternate title: The Marioverse itself is angry at Nuts and Bolts

The Gentle Pull vs Lord of Games.

When I saw the Lord of Game's profile say that it's implied he created the Marioverse, I knew I had to do this.

Plot: The Lord of Games decides to try and turn New Super Mario Brothers 3 into a first person shooter, since that's what the kids like these days. When he enters the Marioverse, he suddenly slams facefirst into a tree, in the middle of outer space. "Oh, right. Galaxy 2."

Rules: Speed equalized. Both are bloodlusted. Battle takes place in space. Both are Low 2-C. Victory by any means.



The Gentle Pull: 1 (Bobsica)
Lord of Games: 6 (Genericstickma, GyroNutz, Nedge1000, Iapitus The Impaler, Jimboydejuan12, ABoogieYesSir)

Inconclusive:

 

[The_Smashor]

Bump

 

[Genericstickman]

Lord of Games via Plot Manipulation

 

[GyroNutz]

Good match.

The Gentle Pull has various abilities that could put down the Lord of Games, but since LOG's plot manipulation is instant, he should be able to plot manip the Gentle Pull out of existence before it tries any causality/fate shenanigans.

Voting for Lord of Games, pretty clear-cut imo

 

[Elizhaa]

@GyroNutz, Plot Manipulation doesn't give Existence Erasure, it is just a variation of Reality Warping.

Also, Plot Manipulation feats varied per showing so they should be judged in a case by case basis, and this case Lord of Nightmares's is not that special.

So @GyroNutz, like you said The Gentle Pull's Causality Manipulation or Fate Manipulation negated his Plot Manipulation

@GyroNutz and @Genericstickman, while I would vote for Lord of Games for at least by BFR, your votes, should not count unless you change your reasoning.

 

[GyroNutz]

@Nedge this is wrong, in the same way you can reality warp someone out of existence, you can plot manip someone out of existence. Imagine a story with 5 characters, and a villain changes the plot by removing the fourth character's role in the story. They would be removed from the plot, and thus from existence.

Gruntilda can plot manip Banjo & Kazooie out of existence, and LOG's plot manipulation is superior to her plot manip. Therefore it only follows that LOG could plot manip someone out of existence.

So yeah, plot manipulation is a valid vote, though I agree that BFR is a way to win as well

 

[Elizhaa]

@GyroNutz, I know what you mean but since Plot Manipulation is a case by cae basis, and Lord of Games don't have the feat of Existence Erasure so we can't argue this if it not on his profile.

In Gruntilda case, she deleted the save file not Banjo & Kazooie. This feat is akin to Data Manipulation.

 

[GyroNutz]

You get the game over screen before the save file is deleted, the implication is that Banjo & Kazooie are deleted as well.

 

[Elizhaa]

@GyroNutz, based on what I saw, Gruntilda only delete your save files if you, the player, cheat which is akin to Reality - Fiction Interaction, unlike what I thought. She doesn't do this in any other circumstance so it can't be apply even if we wanted. Thus, we should not attribute this event to Lord of Games.

 

[GyroNutz]

There are several things wrong with that;

1: It is not reality-fiction interaction, it is a fourth wall break. The Banjo-Kazooie games are very meta, especially for their time, so this sort of thing is common. The cheats are inputted in-game.

2: Characters in the game (namely Bottles) say that Gruntilda is capable of this feat, again proving it's not simply an anti-cheat.

3: Cheats are canon in the game, proven by characters such as Cheato. And it's not the player that inputs the cheats; it's Banjo himself.

There's no reason that this should not be applicable, and there's lots of reasons why it should. There's also no reason why the Lord of Games, who's most distinguishable power is his power over the plot, should be inferior to someone who is literally fodder to it.

 

[Elizhaa]

@GyroNutz, I accept your points, my apology for not knowing about the canon cheats.


@GyroNutz, you should make a CRT about giving Lord of Games Existence Erasure because if it is not there, even if this vs thread is accepted, it might later be removed from these characters' profile in the long run.

 

[GyroNutz]

No problem. And I'm making a big Banjo-Kazooie CRT soon for all the characters, so I'll probably bring it up then.

Either way, LOG should win via BFR even if plot manipulation doesn't work

 

[Bobsican]

Mismatch; LOG can´t harm non-corporeal beings like The Gentle Pull.

 

[GyroNutz]

Being non-corporeal doesn't stop instant teleportation (BFR) or plot manipulation

 

[Bobsican]

LOG can BFR entire universes to begin with?

How good is LOG´s plot manip?

 

[GyroNutz]

Gentle Pull isn't a universe nor is the size of one. It's an entity that controls what happens in the universe.

Can change the plot of a story at a whim, changing events in the past too to fit the plot, very casually. Should also be superior to Gruntilda's which can delete Banjo and Kazooie out of the plot.

 

[Bobsican]

"Unknow. Likely Immeasurable (Stated to be beyond space and time), possibly Omnipresent (Was also stated to bind everything together)"

- Speed of The Gentle Pull

 

[GyroNutz]

Being immeasurable doesn't make you a universe, and it's more likely that it is immeasurable than omnipresent

 

[Bobsican]

Well, as per SBA, it´s at its peak, so it´s Omnipresent here by default, unless the OP bothers specifying that TGP is just Inmeasurable here.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Lord of Games FRA

 

[Bobsican]

By the way, Omnipresence is still Omnipresence even with speed equalized..

 

[The_Smashor]

That means both are Omnipresant...

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Couldn't GP just Fate or Causality Manip LoG?

 

[GyroNutz]

Yes, but there's nothing to suggest its activation time is faster than LOG's own hax. Plus GP's hax is pretty ambiguous anyway

 

[Bobsican]

Well, GP technically isn´t even a character to begin with, and it´s profile is only around because it can be interpreted as one, plus the fact that it´s harmless to the site anyways.

Either way, as GP vastly exceeds Rosalina´s capabilities, it should be capable of pulling the hax that she did to restart the universe, making its hax to be capable of being used in seconds at most.

 

[GyroNutz]

Rosalina doesn't have either of GP's mentioned haxes. Though if we take a few seconds as a generous assumption, then LoG still activates their hax first

 

[Bobsican]

Up to what degree is his hax?

 

[GyroNutz]

Do you mean how good it is?

Cause I explained that

 

[Bobsican]

I meant as in, well, gameplay footage of how it happens.

 

[Jimboydejuan12]

well guess take vote for Lord of Games FRA.

 

[GyroNutz]

LOG has existence erasure + mind manipulation now btw, making it more in their favour.

@Bobsi The intro of the game shows how the game would originally have nothing to do with cars + vehicles or a collectathon, then becomes a collectathon and then gets changed to being about cars + vehicles. Just search up 'Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts intro'.

It's vital to remember that Mumbo Jumbo states that he was tipped off that the next game would be about cars, so became a mechanic before the game even begun. Thus, it's actual plot manipulation.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, LOG is featless when being compared to other beings of his same level, unlike Gentle Pull, who should be higher than Rosalina, who is above all the main Marioverse, at least excluding all 2-B related stuff.

The plot manip thing is questionabe, as Mumbo´s profile says that he did that as he had 4th wall awareness, so it´s likely not plot manip to begin with.

 

[GyroNutz]

You... kinda ignored the first part. Point is, the game was never going to be about cars, but since the plot was changed, so was Mumbo's role.

Also Gentle Pull is far more featless than LOG. If you're talking about AP, that's not really a factor here since LOG wins through thought based hax

 

[Bobsican]

Gentle Pull may be featless, but at least has a scaling chain that gives it more AP than LOG.

There´s also the fact that no part of LOG´s profile shows that it can harm non-corporeal stuff, giving Gentle Pull even more of an advantage.

 

[GyroNutz]

Again, none of this is coming down to AP, so I don't see at all how that is relevant

 

[Elizhaa]

Gentle Pull may be featless, but at least has a scaling chain that gives it more AP than LOG.
There´s also the fact that no part of LOG´s profile shows that it can harm non-corporeal stuff, giving Gentle Pull even more of an advantage.

@Bobsican, EE negate being Non-Corporeal. Also, Lord of Games should have Soul Manipulation and Non-Physical Interaction since he is created soul and should be able to manipulate them or at very least scaling from Banjo & Kazooie's who have the abilities.

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[Genericstickman]

Bump

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Funny thing is, Rosie instead would just reset him.